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RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:26:57 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07
It isn't wise and why does he need it anyway  if i am doing a good job with it? That is just part of a fantasy and i prefer to live in real life.

You're just never going to stop taking it that one step too far are you?

I know plenty of people who live that fantasy and do it very well.  And it's completely wise for them.

You don't want it, you don't think it's wise for you, then please find your bliss.

But can you PLEASE stop with all the "what I think is unwise and wrong and fantasy is so for everyone" stuff?

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(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:28:04 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

Sorry my post printed before i even wrote anything.

At 18 i had a job, my own apartment,. car, bank account, savings, etc. i wanted a D/s relationship, but i would never ever hand over my financial control to anyone. It isn't wise and why does he need it anyway  if i am doing a good job with it? That is just part of a fantasy and i prefer to live in real life.

And Aqua sub is 100 percent right. It is alive and well and i wonder how many people have lost everything they've had to someone they didn't know who took them for everything they had.

It is one thing to be submissive, it's another thing to be stupid.


Well, count Alandra and I as among the stupid because he has complete authority over all finances in our house.  There is nothing unwise about our choice to consent to his authority in this manner and it is an aspect that we enjoy.  It has nothing to do with "doing a good job with it"; it is about authority.  Who has it and who doesn't. 

My apologies, Rabbit for the slight hijack.  I get tired of the negative judgements against people who choose to transfer authority of certain aspects of their lives to someone else and money seems to bring out the worst in people.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:28:36 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry all to labour the point I’m just trying to understand why a Dominant would worry about the choices he makes for someone if he is confident in them. I don’t understand the point of the question. Confidence equals no moral dilemma. If you want a sub with no financial skills then take control of her finances. I just don’t understand the question at all.

Why would you care she has no life skills if you are always going to take responsibility for that? Unless you get run over by a bus maybe and she is left alone.

I’m only using finances as an example.

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∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:29:10 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

But can you PLEASE stop with all the "what I think is unwise and wrong and fantasy is so for everyone" stuff?


Seems to be a lot of that going around.

I will have to remember that for the next time I start a thread about the possibility that something might be bad or unwise for someone.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:29:45 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Sorry all to labour the point I’m just trying to understand why a Dominant would worry about the choices he makes for someone if he is confident in them. I don’t understand the point of the question. Confidence equals no moral dilemma. If you want a sub with no financial skills then take control of her finances. I just don’t understand the question at all.

Why would you care she has no life skills if you are always going to take responsibility for that? Unless you get run over by a bus maybe and she is left alone.

I’m only using finances as an example.


Because no dominant or master, no matter how domly or how many whips they own, is promised tomorrow.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:29:55 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
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The kink for controlling people's money is alive and well. 

i'm sorry i must of read it wrong.

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i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:31:00 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

My apologies, Rabbit for the slight hijack. 


Nah, nah. It's more than okay in this incident.

But I would love to hear some more opinions about my OP before it slides down the black hole.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:32:10 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07



The kink for controlling people's money is alive and well. 

i'm sorry i must of read it wrong.


I did say it was alive and well. I just didn't say it was a bad thing or that anyone was stupid for engaging in it. I wanted to clarify since I don't want my opinion associated with that one.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:34:47 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		i never said you did i was just reffering to that one line you wrote and then continued on writing. :)

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:34:57 PM   
TheDomInTheHat


Posts: 33
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline 		I personally don't find the idea of having someone financially dependant on me to be arousing in the slightest. Unless I was a rich old bastard, it would seem more akin to slavery (or marriage :P) than dominance to me. I suppose my question would be if I can order a submissive to clean the house and service me, can't I order her to balance her checkbook and make that a part of her training? Such basic financial "hygiene" seems to me no different than demanding a submissive bathe herself on a regular basis.   If part of the fantasy is having me control their finances and dole them out an allowance, then I can see a certain appeal to it.

I would agree with the idea that too much control over a person who has not really come into their own might not be in their long term interest. I want a submissive who wishes to grow as an individual with me and not be infantalized.



(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:37:02 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		So at 18 (which was the age i was reffering to) you gave all your finances to a Dominant?

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:37:37 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDomInTheHat

I suppose my question would be if I can order a submissive to clean the house and service me, can't I order her to balance her checkbook and make that a part of her training? Such basic financial "hygiene" seems to me no different than demanding a submissive bathe herself on a regular basis.   If part of the fantasy is having me control their finances and dole them out an allowance, then I can see a certain appeal to it.

I would agree with the idea that too much control over a person who has not really come into their own might not be in their long term interest. I want a submissive who wishes to grow as an individual with me and not be infantalized.



Thank you for your reply (and everyone else who I didn't reply personally to)

Both are really good points, especially the bold one. There is different ways to control someone as you and Rover have pointed out.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to TheDomInTheHat)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:38:30 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Why would you care she has no life skills if you are always going to take responsibility for that?


Because always is a long time.  Are you still "always" there for your ex's, or is this your first power exchange relationship?
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:39:41 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

But I would love to hear some more opinions about my OP before it slides down the black hole.


So would I.  I have pointed this thread out to him since he has had the opportunity to have complete authority over Alandra since she was in her late teens and then I transfered authority to him when I was in my mid-30's. 

Alandra and I are practically the same age and I know that I would not have been able to transfer all authority to him at the same age that she did.  Mostly because of the goals I had in my life at the time.  I do know that in the way he exercises his authority he promotes our own personal responsibility for our well-being.  Also, just because he has the authority does not mean that he does the actual work.  *g*  He has complete authority over the finances, but Alandra and I do all the work in balancing the accounts and paying the bills.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:43:03 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

So at 18 (which was the age i was reffering to) you gave all your finances to a Dominant?


Not me, but he had authority over Alandra's finances since she was 17.  Since she is still with him after 20 years, it was not such a stupid or fantasy based decision.  Just because you cannot fathom it or it is not a good idea for you, does not make it a bad idea for everyone.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:48:05 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		i'm glad it worked out for her, but how many does it not work out for. Especially at that age when a girl is usually very trusting. How many are scammed out of their money because of a few flowery words from someone they've only known for a short time. It goes for vanilla relationships too. At 17 your friend wqs still a minor. That's a different story also.

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:49:25 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Note to Self : Choose better examples.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:50:50 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Because always is a long time.  Are you still "always" there for your ex's, or is this your first power exchange relationship?
 John


I don't do TPE type relationships for this reason. I asked that question because I'm wondering why Dominants wouldn't care about such things. I've also already asked what this has to do specifically to D/s rather than a normal marriage. I'm just wondering why the question is being asked? It's not unheard of for people to get into relationships with people that take control of aspects of their lives. It happens in the non D/s relationship too, so why the question here?

The problem is the OP asked is it right to take control of a young person's life in a D/s type relationship rather than an older person but young people get into non D/s relationships all the time where similar control is give away. Therefore surely it doesn't matter because if it wasn't a Master doing it it could be their boyfriend instead?

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 1/12/2008 2:52:15 PM >

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∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:51:53 PM   
Honsoku


Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Do you think it is an unwise decision to take control of certain aspects of someone's life when it might stalwart their growth as an individual?

Not unwise, but unethical (wisdom is relative to the goal). It is unethical for me to knowingly retard the positive growth and development of an individual whom I have been given authority over.

quote:

Finally, leading up to the bigger and more controversial question intended for everyone, do you think a TPE dynamic (for the purposes of discussion, I am using TPE to mean an authority dynamic where major control over an individual's life is surrendered) at too young of an age can be an unwise life decision?

If the control is exercised too much and cuts her off from developmental experiences, than yes. On the other hand, if that control is used to push her into positive developmental experiences that she otherwise would have avoided, than no. It is the difference between managing her and stifling her.

Honsoku

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:54:34 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

i'm glad it worked out for her, but how many does it not work out for. Especially at that age when a girl is usually very trusting. How many are scammed out of their money because of a few flowery words from someone they've only known for a short time. It goes for vanilla relationships too. At 17 your friend wqs still a minor. That's a different story also.


Honestly, I don't think the fact that some people scammed and allow themselves to be scammed is enough to say that those who do so are generally stupid. Most relationships, BDSM or vanilla, break up. Does that mean getting into one is stupid since it will probably end in heartbreak?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 60
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