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RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:57:43 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

i'm glad it worked out for her, but how many does it not work out for. Especially at that age when a girl is usually very trusting. How many are scammed out of their money because of a few flowery words from someone they've only known for a short time. It goes for vanilla relationships too. At 17 your friend wqs still a minor. That's a different story also.


So because so many relationships that people get involved with don't work out and people are lied to/scammed then getting into a relationship is based on fantasy, not reality and it is stupid to do so....  What is the difference between that statement and yours about money?

Just because some people make choices to give someone authority in their life when they have only known them for a short time or because of a "few flowery words" does not mean that everyone does.  Don't judge every person from that perspective. 

She is my partner, not just a friend and you brought up age, so I pointed out her age when he actually started having authority over money.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 2:59:41 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Because always is a long time.  Are you still "always" there for your ex's, or is this your first power exchange relationship?
 John


I don't do TPE type relationships for this reason. I asked that question because I'm wondering why Dominants wouldn't care about such things. I've also already asked what this has to do specifically to D/s rather than a normal marriage. I'm just wondering why the question is being asked? It's not unheard of for people to get into relationships with people that take control of aspects of their lives. It happens in the non D/s relationship too, so why the question here?

The problem is the OP asked is it right to take control of a young person's life in a D/s type relationship rather than an older person but young people get into non D/s relationships all the time where similar control is give away. Therefore surely it doesn't matter because if it wasn't a Master doing it could be their boyfriend instead?


I don't know man.

Maybe because this is a forum for D/S relationships and it's a valid concern for people in those relationships...even if it just so happens to be a possible valid concern for people in marriages as well.

I'm sure if you search these forums you will find a lot of threads that can be talked about in vanilla relationships on a whole wide variety of topics from blowjobs to how to not have sex in front of your children.

Just because the issue shares relevance with other kinds of relationships doesn't negate it's worth in being asked.

Clearly, you think this is a pointless discussion. Clearly, your personal experiences don't match up. That's great. I guess you will be in threads about safety prevention against muggers, obtusely repeating the same opinion about how it's all so pointless because you and the people you know have never been mugged. However, a whole lot of people who I have formed the opinion of as having a lot of experience seem to think there is some relevance to this.

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(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:05:17 PM   
cherrypez


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		Fast reply***
   In my parents very vanilla marriage my father not only handled all of the money but mom handed her paycheck over to my father with the exception of the small amount of pin money he allowed her to keep every week.   Their marriage lasted pretty near 40 years until mom passed away, I wish they were alive right now so I could call them and tell them that their life was a pure fantasy.  

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:05:32 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I don't do TPE type relationships for this reason.


To begin, TPE relationships do not require that a Dominant make all the decisions (that would be micromanagement which appeals to very few people), just that they make all the decisions they care to make.  That is a substantial distinction.

quote:


I asked that question because I'm wondering why Dominants wouldn't care about such things.


Some do, some don't.  It depends upon the dynamic employed in their relationship.  No one holds a gun to a submissive's head forcing them to accept a dynamic that does not work for them.  That's the relative nature of consent (ie: we do not all consent to the same things).

quote:


I've also already asked what this has to do specifically to D/s rather than a normal marriage.


It has particular relevance to power exchange relationships because of their nature, in which one partner is authorized to exercise most or all of the control in the relationship.  With that right comes additional responsibility.  Both the nature of the control and it's resultant responsibility are significantly different than that in the vast majority of marriages.

quote:


I'm just wondering why the question is being asked?


Because someone found it relevant to their relationship.  If it's not relevant to yours, don't lose any sleep over it.  But don't be an obstacle to information that may be valuable to someone else just because it's of no value to you, personally.  That would be rather selfish, don't you think?

quote:


It's not unheard of for people to get into relationships with people that take control of aspects of their lives. It happens in the non D/s relationship too, so why the question here?


Because it happens infrequently in other lifestyles does not diminish its relevance to power exchange relationships.

quote:


The problem is the OP asked is it right to take control of a young person's life in a D/s type relationship rather than an older person but young people get into non D/s relationships all the time where similar control is give away. Therefore surely it doesn't matter because if it wasn't a Master doing it could be their boyfriend instead?


I did not see where the OP asked whether it was "right to take control" (because he didn't).  He asked whether it was wise to *do* for a submissive what they have not yet learned to do for themselves, and what the ramifications might be if that were to happen.  That seems a very reasonable question, in order to understand the consequences of an action before taking it.  Once the cat is out of the bag, it's a little late to be making that sort of inquiry.
 
Now that your questions have been answered, I'm sure you can either find a way to make a positive contribution to the ongoing discussion, or ignore it should it no longer interest you.
 
John

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(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:07:44 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Note to Self : Choose better examples.
 I think the example you chose is a fine one and it can easily be carried over into other areas. Taking financial control can be a great teaching tool or it can be detrimental. I really don't get the hostility and belittling attitude from some here because it IS a part of some TPE's but not all. MR you prefaced your OP with just about everything under the sun to be understood. Right now my father has complete control of my finances aside from my immediate savings. He has made sure that I understand and am able to maintain them after he is gone. Much, I think, like a dominant who teaches his sub yet still controls the reins. I am glad for his help both in teaching me and in continuing to manage things for me because it makes my life easier.If I lived with R he would do the same. The only reason he does not do so now is the sheer complexity of my inheritance. As long as it is not something kept beyond the subs ken then I think it can be a wonderfully freeing part of a D/s relationship. I say D/s because that is the relationship I am in. Yeah it can apply to vanilla. Or striped. But since most of us here are involved somewhat with BDSM it is being applied in that manner. MR I've really enjoyed this angle of financial domination, it is a different way of looking at it aside from the usual ProFemme side and to those few that do not believe it is alive and well I suggest you continue to read and learn.

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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:08:36 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Maybe because this is a forum for D/S relationships and it's a valid concern for people in those relationships...even if it just so happens to be a possible valid concern for people in marriages as well.

I'm sure if you search these forums you will find a lot of threads that can be talked about in vanilla relationships on a whole wide variety of topics from blowjobs to how to not have sex in front of your children.

Just because the issue shares relevance with other kinds of relationships doesn't negate it's worth in being asked.

Clearly, you think this is a pointless discussion. Clearly, your personal experiences don't match up. That's great. I guess you will be in threads about safety prevention against muggers, obtusely repeating the same opinion about how it's all so pointless because you and the people you know have never been mugged. However, a whole lot of people who I have formed the opinion of as having a lot of experience seem to think there is some relevance to this.


No you insisted that the D/s relationship was overly concerned with such issues in your OP to the extent that young subs would be more ill equipped to face life.

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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:12:28 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Maybe because this is a forum for D/S relationships and it's a valid concern for people in those relationships...even if it just so happens to be a possible valid concern for people in marriages as well.

I'm sure if you search these forums you will find a lot of threads that can be talked about in vanilla relationships on a whole wide variety of topics from blowjobs to how to not have sex in front of your children.

Just because the issue shares relevance with other kinds of relationships doesn't negate it's worth in being asked.

Clearly, you think this is a pointless discussion. Clearly, your personal experiences don't match up. That's great. I guess you will be in threads about safety prevention against muggers, obtusely repeating the same opinion about how it's all so pointless because you and the people you know have never been mugged. However, a whole lot of people who I have formed the opinion of as having a lot of experience seem to think there is some relevance to this.


No you insisted that the D/s relationship was overly concerned with such issues in your OP to the extent that young subs would be more ill equipped to face life.
 I just read his OP once again and no mention was made of 'insisting that the D/s relationship was overly concerned yadda yadda yadda'.Honestly if this is something with NO application in your world then why not sit back and let those of us with an interest discuss it? You are coming across as hostile and negative, unless it is a personal thing with you & the OP I can see no reason for the attitude.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:14:04 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

No you insisted that the D/s relationship was overly concerned with such issues in your OP to the extent that young subs would be more ill equipped to face life.


Huh?

Look, if you never learn to manage money, you just don't know how. The information is never magically imparted to you. The possiblity of a dominant/master dying (and having worked in a cancer clinic I am quite aware that nobody is promised any length of time, regardless of age or previous health) and leaving behind a sub/slave who never learned how to manage a house/balance a checkbook/make a budget/deal with computer problems/ask a doctor/vet all the right questions/etc is a valid concern in a relationship where the dominant could simply say "You don't need to know, I'll take care of this".

Rabbit raised the question of "Do you consider this or think it's a risk when dealing with young submissives?". Please show me where he said "Young submissives will be ill equipped to handle life".

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:15:07 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Being long (long oh so long) gone from the days of school I wonder, do they still teach basic skills such as banking or has that fallen by the wayside?When I was in school Home Economics meant just that, the economy and running of the household. I think there are skills that everyone needs to learn before leaving home and that includes the basic concept of banking, not just how to use an ATM without a surcharge

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:17:32 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Maybe because this is a forum for D/S relationships and it's a valid concern for people in those relationships...even if it just so happens to be a possible valid concern for people in marriages as well.

I'm sure if you search these forums you will find a lot of threads that can be talked about in vanilla relationships on a whole wide variety of topics from blowjobs to how to not have sex in front of your children.

Just because the issue shares relevance with other kinds of relationships doesn't negate it's worth in being asked.

Clearly, you think this is a pointless discussion. Clearly, your personal experiences don't match up. That's great. I guess you will be in threads about safety prevention against muggers, obtusely repeating the same opinion about how it's all so pointless because you and the people you know have never been mugged. However, a whole lot of people who I have formed the opinion of as having a lot of experience seem to think there is some relevance to this.


No you insisted that the D/s relationship was overly concerned with such issues in your OP to the extent that young subs would be more ill equipped to face life.


And once again, I did nothing of the sort. I presented an abstract concept for discussion on these boards as to a possibility.

You obviously taken my post to be an attack and insult to young people in D/S relationships. You obviously are being too pissed off and emotional to actually comprehend what I wrote and think about it.

You seem to just want to carry on and on about what you think I said regardless of whatever clarifications I provide. (Since...you...know...this is the second time I have provided this exact same response to this exact same accusation of me "insisting" something)

Here is where you asked and I answered before in case you have forgetten.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

The question seemed to imply that a submissives life experience will be stunted by the Master taking over everyday responsibilities.

 
There was no implying. It was suggesting an abstract concept for discussion (If you reread my post, I make a point to note the distinction of the word CAN and the word IS to avoid this false assumption you are making).
 


And here is my orginal question where I made the distinction between "implying" something and submitting a possibility.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The point I am leading up to is that there CAN (Note the word CAN and not the word IS) be a substantial difference between a dominant taking control over aspects of a middle aged submissives life and a dominant taking control over aspects of a submissive's life who is barely in their 20's and hasn't finished college.


And finally here is this little disclaimer I wrote to clearly state the intentions of my post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

This isn't meant to start a huge Age and Experience flame war nor is it an insult to all the young people out there. It would be kind of self defeating if it was since I still qualify as one of those "silly young people".


Is there anything else you would like to claim I said, but didn't say?

Edited to Add : And dude, I am 24. It would be really self defeating to insist that young people can't be in relationships like the one I am in now.




< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 1/12/2008 3:21:09 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:18:25 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Being long (long oh so long) gone from the days of school I wonder, do they still teach basic skills such as banking or has that fallen by the wayside? When I was in school Home Economics meant just that, the economy and running of the household. I think there are skills that everyone needs to learn before leaving home and that includes the basic concept of banking, not just how to use an ATM without a surcharge


Umm... I wasn't taught anything about banking anywhere in school. I also didn't have any time in my high school schedule to take home economics since I was taking a lot of the art classes that I would need for college.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:19:27 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Jeez I am old, they were required courses for me.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:20:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		LOL I'm not sure who is older - in my Home Ec class, we learned sewing and cooking.  Us girls didn't have to worry our little heads with matters like finances. 

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:23:22 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Finally, leading up to the bigger and more controversial question intended for everyone, do you think a TPE dynamic (for the purposes of discussion, I am using TPE to mean an authority dynamic where major control over an individual's life is surrendered) at too young of an age can be an unwise life decision?


What is too young of an age then and in terms of what?

Why wouldn't this threat apply to any age?

What does this have to do with age at all?

My fault I don't understand the question sorry, woooosssshhhh over  my head it goes





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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:23:42 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Jeez I am old, they were required courses for me.


They made me take a few weeks of dance when I wanted to play basketball with the boys. The boys had a choice between dancing and basketball but the girls didn't. If they had been teaching the Virginia Reel it would have at least been fun but it was modern stuff like the Hotspot. And really crummy "martial arts" where the teacher got mad at me because I refused to do it their way when I was already in training outside the school.

I would have been a lot happier with home economics.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:24:51 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Finally, leading up to the bigger and more controversial question intended for everyone, do you think a TPE dynamic (for the purposes of discussion, I am using TPE to mean an authority dynamic where major control over an individual's life is surrendered) at too young of an age can be an unwise life decision?


What is too young of an age then and in terms of what?

Why wouldn't this threat apply to any age?

What does this have to do with age at all?

My fault I don't understand the question sorry, woooosssshhhh over  my head it goes



After 4 pages of people trying to explain the concept to you, maybe you should consider being tested for a learning disability?

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:26:21 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Did anyone ever tell you patients is a virtue?

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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:27:15 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle


My fault I don't understand the question sorry, woooosssshhhh over  my head it goes


  Then why on earth wouldn't you civilly and simply ask if you don't understand the question instead of getting nasty and rude? That........... goes over 'my' head.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:27:42 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

What is too young of an age then and in terms of what?

Why wouldn't this threat apply to any age?

What does this have to do with age at all?

My fault I don't understand the question sorry, woooosssshhhh over  my head it goes




I had far less life experience and wisdom at 18 as I do now.  I had a lot of living to do, to develop a well rounded, wordly view of life.  Instead, however, as a very impressionable youth (or for Ron's sake, yout), I developed my husband's philosophies instead of my own.  I did not come unto my own until the age of 40, when I left him.

I think this is what the OP is concerned about, although I would not presume to speak for him..  At a young age, one has experienced less living and it seems to me he is concerned of interrupting her path of self discovery.


(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Control, Young Subs/Slaves, and Individual Growth - 1/12/2008 3:28:45 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Did anyone ever tell you patients is a virtue?


*Grin* I've heard patience was.  But I suppose patients can be virtuous, too. 

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 80
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