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BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:06:34 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I've noticed a peculiar phenom on the boards. First, there is the Us VS Them mentality wherein people come to these fora with an expectation that BDSM is bigger, better, more honest, more open yadda, yadda, yadda.

That's quickly shot down with the We Are Them -  They Are Us.
Okay, I can buy that.. but ..


If We Are Them, and just as closed-minded as our vanilla counterparts, why do we feel so comfortable talking about our cocks, pussy's, bruises, parties, limits, Golden showers, blood play, bondage .. well, the list goes on and on, doesn't it?

Are the members of this forum the very folks who are perpetuating the Us Vs Them mentality with our desire and ability to discuss issues while at the same time saying We Are Them ... we are all the same?

Have we created our own monster then seek to slay the beast we've unleased?

It is often said that there is some grain of truth to sterotypes, so if the stereotype, the assumption, the expectation from someone entering BDSM (and from many who have been here a while as well) is one of honesty, integrity and openess.. from where does it stem?

Celeste









< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 1/14/2008 12:50:53 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:38:42 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		People are judgmental, by nature.  It is my opinion that people can accept that which they can relate to, and can not accept that which they can not.  This is why those things you listed - bruises, beatings, golden showers, etc., - can be readily discussed, but those controversial topics - scat, financial domination, and other "edgey" type situations - are...well...controversial.

I think the BDSM community you speak of on these fora is simply a mix of people from a greater community - our society at large.  We're all human, we all judge, we all have opinions of right and wrong, we are no more or less honest than anyone else.  This doesn't make anyone better, stronger, faster than anyone else.  We're just a group of people who have BDSM in common, just as a sewing group has sewing in common, just as a book club has the books they read in common.  In any case, those who think contrary to the "norm" in whichever group are going to be questioned, and often times such contrarian thoughts are rejected outright.

Personally, my non-D/s friends and family have proven to be more open minded than the majority on this message board.  Go figure.


Edited to try to better reflect the edited OP.  :)

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 1/14/2008 1:02:29 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:44:46 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		Maybe, at least with the cheating part, its the definition of cheating being applied?
How many "Vanilla" people would say a poly relationship is cheating? How many couples may cheat because they have the need for which others create a poly relationship, whatever that need may be? Its really hard to cheat on someone that lets you sleep with other people as long as you follow standard safety guidlines, almost impossible, especially if she likes *stories* Maybe its not that the community is more open, maybe its just that its that much harder to break the rules?


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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:48:33 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Owned and Asher, thank you for your thoughts, but I'm revising the OP because the last thing I want is another thread on cheating and I can see by the answers that I did not, at all, put my thoughts out there to garner the discussion which I hope for! Thank you both for the responses in such a timely manner so that I had the chance to edit the OP.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 1/14/2008 12:51:54 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Asherdelampyr)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:53:03 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		In that case...
You have to be pretty open with yourself to first admit that you like tying people up and whipping them, and then to also admit that it doesn't mean you will become a serial killer or some such. Therefore it would stand to reason that after you make this type of discovery you *should* be a better person for it.

fixin my spellin


< Message edited by Asherdelampyr -- 1/14/2008 12:55:21 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:53:24 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Mmm perhaps my answer is a bit short.....but as we are all part of the vanilla world, all those things mentioned in OP are part of the lifestyle too.
BDSM became somehow part of the vanilla world..and the vanilla world flows in to "ours". We are all the same humans, with all the same flaws.
There is no them or us, just people with different tastes.

But yes, we all want to see the things we like to be better then other things. Sadly is not, have a peek at some very read profiles on the website.


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/14/2008 12:54:34 AM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 12:59:31 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

In that case...
You have to be pretty open with yourself to first admit that you like tying people up and whipping them, and then to also admit that it doesn't mean you will become a serial killer or some such. Therefore it would stand to reason that after you make this type of discovery you *should* be a better person for it.

fixin my spellin



So, the openess, the honesty .. that comes from within. Being open and honest with ourselves after, perhaps, struggling to accept what we may think of as a quirk in our own character?

I can buy that and even pay some tax on it. :)

Thank you so much, Asher .. this is where I hoped my OP would lead.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Asherdelampyr)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:02:54 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		I do what I can

_____________________________

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Vitam Piratae Eligo

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:04:00 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

In that case...
You have to be pretty open with yourself to first admit that you like tying people up and whipping them, and then to also admit that it doesn't mean you will become a serial killer or some such. Therefore it would stand to reason that after you make this type of discovery you *should* be a better person for it.

fixin my spellin



True, but I believe anyone who discovers their true nature and how to live by it would be better for it, "vanilla" or "D/s", no?

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)
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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:06:44 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

People are judgmental, by nature.  It is my opinion that people can accept that which they can relate to, and can not accept that which they can not.  This is why those things you listed - bruises, beatings, golden showers, etc., - can be readily discussed, but those controversial topics - scat, financial domination, and other "edgey" type situations - are...well...controversial.

I think the BDSM community you speak of on these fora is simply a mix of people from a greater community - our society at large.  We're all human, we all judge, we all have opinions of right and wrong, we are no more or less honest than anyone else.  This doesn't make anyone better, stronger, faster than anyone else.  We're just a group of people who have BDSM in common, just as a sewing group has sewing in common, just as a book club has the books they read in common.  In any case, those who think contrary to the "norm" in whichever group are going to be questioned, and often times such contrarian thoughts are rejected outright.

Personally, my non-D/s friends and family have proven to be more open minded than the majority on this message board.  Go figure.


Edited to try to better reflect the edited OP.  :)


I agree with owned, Celeste.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:09:44 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		I think it would depend on just how hard it is to accept... for example, I recently accepted that I like what are typically known as feminine drinks. Does that make me much of a better person because I can come to terms with it? not so much. The trick comes in exactly what we are coming to terms with and being honest about. Most people dont have things they find out that are that hard to admit. "the norm" has been expanded to the point where less and less is truly *unacceptable*

I have also heard the point raised that rational people would not let people restrain them if they couldn't trust them, but Im not sure I buy that


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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:10:00 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696



But yes, we all want to see the things we like to be better then other things. Sadly is not, have a peek at some very read profiles on the website.



I strive only to be a better 'me' and understand that I have control only over my own actions and reactions. That said, if I thought that another way of life was better than how I currently live, it would behoove me to change my lifestyle. I don't see anything inherently wrong with thinking that what I do is better than doing something different because doing something different is not better for 'me' as an individual. At the same time I can acknowledge that another way of life is also 'better' for the person who is living best in that way.

::wondering if that makes the sense I think it does:: lol

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:11:29 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		It does Celeste

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The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

Vitam Piratae Eligo

The Rainmaker

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:12:23 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


True, but I believe anyone who discovers their true nature and how to live by it would be better for it, "vanilla" or "D/s", no?


Yes! That said, I don't think that someone who is vanilla has the burden of accepting they are vanilla and that it's okay to be vanilla while many of those who discover their own truths in BDSM oftentimes have to accept that it's okay to live that way as well.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:13:59 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696



But yes, we all want to see the things we like to be better then other things. Sadly is not, have a peek at some very read profiles on the website.



I strive only to be a better 'me' and understand that I have control only over my own actions and reactions. That said, if I thought that another way of life was better than how I currently live, it would behoove me to change my lifestyle. I don't see anything inherently wrong with thinking that what I do is better than doing something different because doing something different is not better for 'me' as an individual. At the same time I can acknowledge that another way of life is also 'better' for the person who is living best in that way.

::wondering if that makes the sense I think it does:: lol

Celeste


Would it "behoove" you even if it contradicts who and what you are?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:16:34 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696



But yes, we all want to see the things we like to be better then other things. Sadly is not, have a peek at some very read profiles on the website.



I strive only to be a better 'me' and understand that I have control only over my own actions and reactions. That said, if I thought that another way of life was better than how I currently live, it would behoove me to change my lifestyle. I don't see anything inherently wrong with thinking that what I do is better than doing something different because doing something different is not better for 'me' as an individual. At the same time I can acknowledge that another way of life is also 'better' for the person who is living best in that way.

::wondering if that makes the sense I think it does:: lol

Celeste


Would it "behoove" you even if it contradicts who and what you are?
If it contradicted who and what she ws, then it would really be better for her, would it?


_____________________________

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The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

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The Rainmaker

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:16:54 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Would it "behoove" you even if it contradicts who and what you are?


If it contradicts who and what I am, I doubt it would be better for me.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:19:10 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696



But yes, we all want to see the things we like to be better then other things. Sadly is not, have a peek at some very read profiles on the website.



I strive only to be a better 'me' and understand that I have control only over my own actions and reactions. That said, if I thought that another way of life was better than how I currently live, it would behoove me to change my lifestyle. I don't see anything inherently wrong with thinking that what I do is better than doing something different because doing something different is not better for 'me' as an individual. At the same time I can acknowledge that another way of life is also 'better' for the person who is living best in that way.

::wondering if that makes the sense I think it does:: lol

Celeste


It makes sense  lol. As a "person", I agree with you. I try to make the best of my life too, but so do many outside the lifestyle.
My point was more focussed on the lifestyle vs vanilla world. Both have bad and good people, so to say.

Mmm I was thinking of giving an example of what I mean. I meant mostly you like to think that the group you belong is the best..or the car you have is the best brand in the world. So if you are in "our lifestyle" you tend to have a certain image of it....and try to believe it is true. So you tell that around as can be seen in the forums also.

mm now i wonder if i make sense

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 1/14/2008 1:23:01 AM >

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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:19:59 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Yes! That said, I don't think that someone who is vanilla has the burden of accepting they are vanilla and that it's okay to be vanilla while many of those who discover their own truths in BDSM oftentimes have to accept that it's okay to live that way as well.

Celeste


No, but they might have the burden of accepting they are gay, or they want something different as a career than is in their family lineage, or (in generations past) that it's ok to "live in sin" or have a baby "out of wedlock", etc...etc... 

This may just be the next "life choice" to be coming up to bat in the public game.  But what Asherdelampyr said makes a great point - one must come to terms with oneself and his/her own choices before being fully comfortable "coming out."  At least that was the case for me.

But is your OP asking if we are segregating ourselves by confining our discussions to a BDSM board?  I don't think so, if we not secluding ourselves to only these kinds of communities.  And if we are...well...we have to start somewhere, right?

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: BDSM & Vanilla: Us VS Them or We Are Them? - 1/14/2008 1:23:49 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

If it contradicted who and what she ws, then it would really be better for her, would it?



It all depends. It certainly could be.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)
Profile   Post #: 20
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