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RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:37:15 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I don't get the thought that a person might be better without a certain habit? Who gets to make that choice? Who gets to decide?

He gets to decide for us which habits he wants changed and usually it is because it is better for him that we don't have them *g*

Using the toilet seat as an example, I asked if he could try to remember to close it because Loki likes to drink out of it. Whether he does or not will not change our relationship at all. For the first few weeks, I would just follow behind him and do it myself. He is remembering more often now, but I mostly take care of it.

There was a point early in our relationship where I had to decide if I could remain in an open relationship. For months I agonized over that decision and not once asked him to change that aspect. Eventually, I decided that I just wasn't ready for it at the time and I asked to leave the relationship. He made the choice to change that because it was more important to him to have me in his life. However, it was only a temporary change so that I could do the work I needed to do in order to handle that aspect of our relationship. He is away right now and the thought of him meeting someone and playing or having sex with them just doesn't cause any stress for me.

If there were things that needed to change about him in order for me to submit, then I would leave the relationship rather than ask him to change. He would have to be internally motivated to change those things.

Knight's Kyra

Well, that is how I tend to view things Kyra. that its his decision (Darcy). Once I submitted, I did so knowing that. It doesn't mean I cannot go to him and offer my thoughts on something, but at the end of the day - it is his final decision. However I see that as something different to actively changing something about him. In our relationship, if the socks are under the bed then it is up to me to pick them up(as an example) and put them in the wash if they are annoying me there.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 1/15/2008 11:39:01 AM >

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 41

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:40:51 AM

RCdc

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thanks for that tee, I kinda dig that analagy...

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 42

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:42:25 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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My answer on that "changing master" thread still stands: reposted

He is not perfect

He has flaws

I wouldn't change him though...

I love him unconditionally, and if I would change a hair on his head, that to me is not unconditional love. I accept him, flaws and all. I love even his flaws, because in my mind his flaws are part of the rich tapestry that makes him person who he is as a complete whole. I love all of him, not just the parts that first attracted me. I am not infatuated and nor do I look upon him with rose colored glasses. I suppose having had our relationship tested makes me love him all the more, even though I now see him as the complete human being that he is...It is rather hard to live up to the illusions that others create about you, and rather tiring too I would imagine...

He told me last night what he longs for most is acceptance... and it is what I strive most to give him....

I agree with IrishMist, there is something about his darkness at times that attracts me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 43

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:43:52 AM

Justme696

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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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Lol when I am in love i find some flaws even cute..and can watch at the girl for hours doing her thing

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 44

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:44:15 AM

Bound2One

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Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Doesn't every one change slowly when you are together. This is ofcourse not soemthing that is asked for or ordered in a D/s....but more like adjusting. Nature itself causes this also

I don't think we ever stop changing in life. (At least the more interesting of those among us keep evolving!) In the course of a relationship possibly some bad habits or other negative traits will be worked on by both parties simply because of the love growing between them. I don't mean the traits that make the person who they are - but other negatives, possibly drinking too much or smoking or being a slob (me!).

(in reply to Justme696)

Post #: 45

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:46:41 AM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable?

Why submit to someone you would want to change (your Master/Dominant *insertermhere*)?

To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given?

How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted someone about you to alter and was trying to alter?

What would you do?

the.dark.

Oh it's been a dynamic filled day and now I get home and have to write a fuckin (brummie) thesis.......dear the.dark. what perfect thought provoking questions.
Let's see, taking it from the top (so to speak):
~As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable?.~ Yes absolutely yes. I have no limits for my Master and although I have submitted many times I have never before been enslaved (which is quite an admittance...even He was surprised). That is to say I communicate what my limits are and He has the power to respect them, ignore them or go beyond them. It is pure instinct that He knows how far to push my limits and what joy it gives me when He holds back. I think a great deal about what I look like for him, if it pleases Him, I reflect on my character and if and when I answered back, how I carry myself in His presence, I take the lifestyle advice He gives me, and above all I try to have compassion for His responsibility and I do this by 'stepping inside him' metaphorically and to see myself from his point of view. I began by seeing this and feeling this as an attempt to be selfless but now I realise that what he most wants me to do most turns me on. He 'outs' my deepest desires and takes me up and over the edge of them in a way which makes me feel safe. I have changed for Him and I do not want to go back to a time when He did not exist even in my imagination.

~Why submit to someone you would want to change~ I do not want to change Him. He does not fit any of my pictures or any ideal type I ever held. He is I realise, not only contrary to anyone I would have expected to have mastery over me but contrary to my sister's pictures, and contrary to those ideals others have expressed about my relationship wth Him. But they are not His; I am. For that reason although we are both polyamorous, I feel we are also entirely for each other. His relationsip to me is unique and no-one will evr be the same, come near it or replace it. I also do not question what His feelings are for me although i did second guess that at the beginning. I now see that, with input and help from these forums and private mails from friends here, i see that second guessing about what he was/is up to and doing, as a form of resistance.
Since I am also a switch I feel I have the right to answer this one also: ~To the dominants – if you knew that there was an attribute that your s-type disliked, would you try to alter it or not if it meant submission was given?~ When I am in domme mode I rarely consider what my s type dislikes or likes about me. There must be an instinct within me that stops me from playing with s types who do not accept me as their domme because I instinctually feel it within them as an inability or rather an unwillingness to submit. But then I am predominantly a lesbian when it comes to being dominant and just incredibly limited in what appeals to me about a woman. (Mind you a woman's willingness to submit to me is one of the most appealing things I find in a woman. If that willingness and joy to submit to me is there it somehow magically wipes out the flaws.)
So pheeew, tea break yes in a moment/ need to answer this as well then: ~How would you feel to find out your submissive wanted something about you to alter and was trying to alter?~ To be honest? i would take it as a power struggle and just move on.
Where am I most focussed at the moment?
I adore my Master and am falling in love with a mf d/s couple who I do believe are both willing to submit....life is really very good. But then I am of the love generation........
Now can I have a cup of tea please?????????

Prinsexx xxxxxxxxxxx

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 1/15/2008 11:51:38 AM >

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 46

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:47:01 AM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bound2One

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Doesn't every one change slowly when you are together. This is ofcourse not soemthing that is asked for or ordered in a D/s....but more like adjusting. Nature itself causes this also

I don't think we ever stop changing in life. (At least the more interesting of those among us keep evolving!) In the course of a relationship possibly some bad habits or other negative traits will be worked on by both parties simply because of the love growing between them. I don't mean the traits that make the person who they are - but other negatives, possibly drinking too much or smoking or being a slob (me!).

I always got a slap on my hands from my girl when I bite my nails. Yes she was allowed to do that, she called that taking care of Master

(in reply to Bound2One)

Post #: 47

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:51:10 AM

RCdc

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One fuck or two?
the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 48

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:52:30 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Wow.. this is exactly where I am. When I love someone, I love them, period. The good, the bad, the annoying, the control, everything. I love them because it is the package that suits who I am. I love them even when I don't like them. I love them as is.
I have never understood why people find someone who "with just a little (or a lot) of tweaking" they might be some one who can fit in their life.
I never understood why love is conditional on changing someone to suit.
Why pretend to be someone you are not so that your mate finds you acceptable? I have tried it in my younger years and that just will not work!
Loving is not dependant on someone fitting all your needs and fantasies. Loving someone isn't always roses and flowers, or even thorns and whips. Love is just love. One can either be "in love", or have crossed over into the deeper love, of accepting someone for who they are, as is.
Kyst

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 49

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:53:06 AM

juliaoceania

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

I just have no desire to change Darcy at all. If I did, I would never have considered submitting to him in the first place. I am just confounded by the mentality that you might submit to a person, yet then try to change them.

I was just thinking, do you think the same about submissives? What I mean is, do you understand a dominant taking a submissive and then trying to change her? If one is acceptable, why not the other? I am not saying that you think that it is, I just wanted to reverse it to see what you thought

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 50

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 11:53:18 AM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I don't get the thought that a person might be better without a certain habit? Who gets to make that choice? Who gets to decide?

the.dark.

Hi again :)

In some cases, he does. When he first met me I drank too much. Not falling down drunk, but I drank enough to where it was causing problems for me that I was not noticing. He instilled a one-drink-rule, that I may only have one drink, whether having dinner at home, or out with friends or family. On special occasions (New Years Eve with family & friends, for example) I may have two. This rule has remained in place for 3 1/2 years, and prevented me from overdoing it again when life became too stressful last year.

He also has a no-smoking rule. I had just quit smoking a few weeks before we first met online. He made it clear I would not smoke again. He prefers me healthy, and this is his way of protecting me from future health hazards. This rule also kept me from indulging in that unhealthy urge last year, and trust me, I wanted to!

If he is doing something I think is unhealthy, I am allowed to research what is unhealthy about it, present my findings to him, and present him with an alternative (I've done this in the case of one of his snacks). I did this on my own once, and he appreciated it and agreed to try the alternative. Turns out, he liked the alternative and has replaced the unhealthy snack with my suggested one. Since I can not impose rules on him, I make appropriate suggestions from time to time.

In both cases, we are in positions to recognize something unhealthy in the other. He can impose healthier changes in me, and I can suggest healthier choices for him. That's how we work. I agree with all others that neither of us has any desire to change the others' core person. As for his "annoying" habits, I do not suggest changes. I have come to find them rather endearing, actually.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 51

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:00:53 PM

MistressNoName

Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
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To the.dark,

This is a wonderful topic and I hope it lasts a good long while. I also hope people read it over and over because there is a lot of good stuff here that just speaks to relationships across all boards.

Back in the days when vanilla was just a flavoring for ice cream and cakes to me, I was involved with someone who I've loved since childhood. It was just another chapter in our continuing romance novel...I loved him, the person and still love him, the person and indeed, I'm positive I will always love him. But there were issues with him that I knew I would never be able to change and that I knew I could not live with. But for those, dare I call them flaws? Because they weren't really flaws, just things I did not like that in my mind were serious enough to call the whole thing off.

Later on, as I discovered the kinky, Dominant part of myself, I met a boy who tickled my fancy, so to speak. His issue was alcoholism. Something that he had done a real good job of hiding the extent of it from me, though I had suspected all along. I know this is not exactly what this thread is about. But bottomline was, is this something I could live with? Answer, a resounding "no." Not because he'd ever done anything that was unforgivable. Not because he was a rotten person. In fact, he has a beautiful soul. But because alcohol was his god. And Strong, Dominant, Leather Woman that I am, I could not compete with a god. He was either going to serve me or serve his god. He chose his god. And I dealt with my pain and anger.

Now, had either of the men that I'd mentioned been able to make decisions for change, and by that I mean, recovery. To get on the path of healing that which ailed them, my decisions might have been quite different and my life might be quite different today. In both cases I asked myself the hard question of whether I could live with the individual as they were, without them making any changes whatsoever in how they operated on a daily basis. When finally I was able to realize the answer was "no," then how to proceed was obvious. It's a question I've always wondered whether other people ask themselves at those critical moments - those moments when it's clear that the real possibility of long term commitment is on the horizon.

Again, this may not have been what you meant in your original or subsequent posts. This, however, is what came up for me in my reading. It seems to me that the more minor issues of the toilet seat and what to do with the cap for the toothpaste can be easily resolved among people who care about each other. The other stuff...not so easy.

Be well,

MNN

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aka Ms Petal - Check Me out on the Web.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 52

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:05:35 PM

RCdc

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Good point and question julia.
No I don't see a difference in the two and I don't personally find one more acceptable than the other. However I do see a difference (in general) on how the discussion takes place. I do see a big divide.
On the whole, when speaking to people, or reading posts on forums like this and reading letters etc, there is an expectation for dominants to be completely honest and forward in stating what they will want their submissive to do and be - its almost like the 'done' thing. The other way around? Other than stating the usual 'particulars' you never hear of submissives doing that. Not that it doesn't occur, but I believe it is less spoken about(which I believe is a bad thing - we should be talking about it more).

So you do often get more s-types entering a relationship and then wanting to 'change something'. Rather than being honest and stating the desires or changes before the submission happens. I guess, in my relationship and experience - submission is the acceptance of anothers rules and decisions. If you do not make clear your wants and needs before you submit how can a dominant, dominate without adequate information.

Not sure if what I said just made sense - I am on pain killers for my ankle and they are kicking in!

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 53

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:07:39 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable?

absolutely.

a quick example:

Master finds it unpleasant to hear the word "fuck" come out of His slave's mouth at the dinner table, so she makes a concerted effort not to use it there.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 54

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:09:54 PM

Justme696

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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable?

absolutely.

a quick example:

Master finds it unpleasant to hear the word "fuck" come out of His slave's mouth at the dinner table, so she makes a concerted effort not to use it there.

Oh yes a cursing girl ..nightmare...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 55

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:27:22 PM

YourhandMyAss

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From: Sacramento
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All I can say is askingh im to change certain things about his bad habbits, and him asking me to change things about my habbits have made our relationship that much better than it was. Not changing said flaws, wouldn't of helped anything.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 56

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:39:17 PM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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As an s-type, do you alter for you dominant/master should he find something unpleasent and find that acceptable?

When I was with my owner, I was never asked, never demanded; that a certain behavior of mine be changed. Just as I accepted him with all his flaws, he accepted mine.

I do want to clarify something though. I had and have a lot of areas within my life that are just not very nice; he never liked them, and I know that there were times that he wished I could…erase? Them from my personality; but he knew that they were a part of me and accepted that as fact. As Kyra said, he tried to help me turn those areas from bad into good, without stripping me of them.

As for him; the same could be said. I may not have liked many facets of his personality, but they were a part of him. If I wanted him, I accepted all of him; the good and the bad.

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Post #: 57

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 12:59:31 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
Oh yes a cursing girl ..nightmare...

yup - that'd be me.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 58

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 1:01:05 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Thanks for responding IM, as you were an inspiration and cause to 'push' me in posting this.
Much appriciated.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 59

RE: .Erasing flaws. - 1/15/2008 1:01:34 PM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
Oh yes a cursing girl ..nightmare...

yup - that'd be me.

the.dark.

The bad thing i curse a lott...and alwaus forbid my girl to do it....not a real good example.. and she reminded me by times.
I find a female so lady like when she doesn't curse at all....hmmmm

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 60

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