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muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 9:41:28 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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greetings all,

i was just wondering if there are any muslim(ah) members on the boards? i've seen discussions on paganism and bdsm before, as well as christianity and bdsm, but none on islam and bdsm.

i've really become interested in islam lately as a friend of mine recently converted. islam, because of my master's experiences in the middle east, is probably the one religion that he'd really look sideways if i converted to. we are both buddhist, although my path is extremely eclectic and very flavored by other religions...i just have a lot of faith in, well, everything (and i don't mind contradictions). as i've been learning more, i know that i could never be entirely and solely a muslimah. still, i love reading the qur'an and learning about islam, and there are certain things i would like to do, like keep hijab, but i feel strange and out of place because i'm very prominent in the local buddhist community and also because i don't identify solely as muslimah so it is somewhat socially awkward. however, i'm thinking about trying to do it soon. i would also feel strange getting involved in the local muslim community, for the same reasons. i love my spirituality and i'm comfortable with it in myself but i do not really feel as though i fit in anywhere, which is really hard for me lately.

has anyone here experienced converting to islam as a westerner, or had a muslim partner? has it affected your experience in m/s or bdsm at all? for any who are muslim, are there books or resources that you'd recommend for those who are interested? i am reading the translation of the qur'an by ahmed ali, and i have also read a little on sufism as well as some sufi poetry.

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 1/17/2008 9:43:17 PM >

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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 10:16:48 PM

CuriousLord

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What's "muslimah"? Is it different from Islam in general?

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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 10:18:50 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings curiouslord,

no, it's the feminine form of muslim, from my understanding - at least, it's used in that sense. i don't know arabic, but i have studied hebrew and they are extremely similar, and so to my knowledge of that it should be the feminine ending :)

respectfully,
annabelle, the annoying feminist-politically-correct-person. :)

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 1/17/2008 10:19:29 PM >

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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 10:29:24 PM

CuriousLord

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They have seperate portions of the religion for people based on their gender? ("muslum" for men, "muslumah" for women?)

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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 10:40:37 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings curiouslord,

no, no, from what i understand it's similar to saying "his/her" or "s/he" or something like that. it's just because most other languages, of which arabic is one, has different endings based on gender - english doesn't. "islam" means submission - mu is a prefix meaning "to submit," so a muslim is one who submits, and muslimah is the feminine form of that. it's the same religion and practices, just that the proper way to refer to a muslim woman would be muslimah, for example.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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Post #: 5

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 11:02:34 PM

CuriousLord

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Ah, gotcha; that makes sense.

So what about Islam appeals to you over your current belief system?

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Post #: 6

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 11:06:27 PM

OrionTheWolf

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If you are going to study and explore Islam, I recommend looking at it from a Sufi perspective, rather than a Shite or Sunni one. I am not muslim, but studied it for several years. There are many translations of the Kuran, but none of them do it justice, as much is lost in translation, or you have to rely on the translators interpretation.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 11:16:19 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings curiouslord,

well, that's part of the issue for me - it's not so much that i am interested in "changing" my beliefs as simply absorbing what i am learning into my current spiritual path (which is why things are not so clear cut for me as, say, converting from buddhism to christianity). some of the things i really love about islam so far are the emphasis on submission and love (especially in sufism) of god, as well as the view of god. it's the first time i've ever really seen a monotheistic point of view that i even felt close to comfortable with. i mean, christianity views god as forgiving, etc. but the way it's spoken about and emphasized in the koran at least for me speaks to me on a deeper level and to an extent that i can feel a connection with in a way i never did with christianity. i also have always felt drawn to keeping hijab, even before i started learning about islam - i'm a very sexual person and i'm also not particularly modest or chaste, but at the same time, something appeals to me about that level of physical modesty. it's also a practical thing for me - i am not traditionally pretty but yet i still face daily sexual harrassment, especially verbal harrassment, which has deeply affected me, even when wearing "modest" western clothing - i don't dress provocatively, and even when i am in my work clothes or completely totally not wearing anything remotely attractive, i still receive unwanted attention. the ability to keep my body for deity, for myself, for my master, and for those who i want to see it and share it with appeals to me.

greetings orion,

thank you for your post! it is very much appreciated. i agree - aside from being much more drawn to sufi teachings and having some experience in other mystical traditions, one of my concerns is also not getting caught up in sectarianism, so i was unsure how to approach things at first because i do not want to feel pushed into shi'a or sunni teachings particularly. so far i am trying to stick to the basics and i have always loved reading about sufism so it is going okay. thank you again for your input.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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Post #: 8

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/17/2008 11:23:30 PM

wankerforuse

Posts: 98
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline

Sorry no i have'nt but let wish you all the best in your search for knowledge about life,and culture within the Muslim faith.Well takecare of yourself and my very best wishes to you from Paul.

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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 1:50:24 AM

seeksfemslave

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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

hisannabelle
i also have always felt drawn to keeping hijab, even before i started learning about islam - i'm a very sexual person and i'm also not particularly modest or chaste, but at the same time, something appeals to me about that level of physical modesty. it's also a practical thing for me - i am not traditionally pretty but yet i still face daily sexual harrassment,

The highlights make me think you may well be trying to run away from yourself. NO?
I recently got a copy of the Koran from our local library just to "have a look". I really wanted to see what it said about infidels. Thats us, but I couldn't find anything.
I couldnt really get much out of it but then I am not religious in the formal sense of the word.

Just to add, why dont you try wearing one of those long black dresses and see what happens.
Dont forget to report back.

(in reply to wankerforuse)

Post #: 10

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 2:42:45 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle
i am not traditionally pretty but yet i still face daily sexual harrassment, especially verbal harrassment, which has deeply affected me, even when wearing "modest" western clothing - i don't dress provocatively, and even when i am in my work clothes or completely totally not wearing anything remotely attractive, i still receive unwanted attention.

Are you fishing for compliments?

So you want to hide away all pretty women, converting the world into an ugly place?

Flowers are pretty too. Want to hide away them as well? Should we drain the water in a waterfall though a pipe to prevent everybody from seeing the pretty waterfall?

What you have got, it seems to me, are attitude and perception problems. I suspect that there are courses available to address such problems. Better consult with your master about your problems and possible solutions.

There once was a lumberjack who married the most beautiful woman in the country. Every day a crowd of one thousand men came from all over the country to get a glimpse of her beauty. This embarrassed the woman. "What shall I do?" she asked her husband.
"Do not comb your hair anymore," he told her.
The crowd lessened by one.
"What shall I do?" the woman asked her husband.
"Put a stone in your right shoe, so that you will appear to be a cripple," he told her.
The crowd lessened by five.
"What shall I do?" the woman asked her husband.
"Wrap ropes around your chest, so that you will appear to have no breasts," he told her.
The crowd lessened by fifty.
"What shall I do?" the woman asked her husband.
"Hold your left arm weird like you have had a stroke and cannot use it anymore," he told her.
The crowd lessened by one hundred.
"What shall I do?" the woman asked her husband.
"Clench your right eye shut and hold your lower jaw to the left, so that you appear less beautifull," he told her.
The crowd lessened by one hundred again.
"What shall I do?" the woman asked her husband.
"Glue a large black wart to your brow and to the left side of your nose," he told her.
The crowd lessened by fifty.
"What shall I do?" the woman asked her husband.
"Hunch your back like a hunchback," he told her.
The crowd lessened by fifty again.

In the end the lumberjack divorced her for she no longer was the most beautiful woman of the country that he married, but a breastless, lame, crippled, ugly, warty-faced hunchback with unkempt, dirty hair.

< Message edited by Rule -- 1/18/2008 2:45:06 AM >

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RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 2:46:43 AM

Level

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A couple of books you might enjoy reading, annabelle:

Struggling to Surrender, and Even Angels Ask, by Jeffery Lang. He's an American convert to Islam.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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Post #: 12

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 6:40:07 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

Yes, I think there are moslems on this site. Do you when you log out of the site, where you get the bit 'you have successfully logged out' , well I did that last night and noticed there was a gentleman from Riyadh's profile up, and instantly thought about people's reference to towel heads and how that must be offensive for people that wear them on this site.

As to the boards, well, that I do not know, maybe there are some lurking, people I fail to see might come out if all they see is derogatory names for them and their faith.

Try doing a search on here for profiles listed in islamic states.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Post #: 13

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 7:20:40 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Hello annabelle.

No I am not muslim, but I do enjoy reading and exploring and I am a huge fan of many of the sufi poets.
The one point I would like to add, is that you mentioned to keeping hijab, as you are attracted to physical modesty. You then go on to mention about being harrassed because of the way you look or dress. In all honesty annabelle, if you are looking to hijab to remove such harrassment, I would say you are seeking from the wrong place. Being attracted to being covered is one thing - but assuming that being covered would remove harrassment wouldn;t happen, you would just get a different type of harrassment - particularly in the current climate(unfortunately)

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 14

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 7:28:28 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings seeksfemslave and rule,

no, i'm not "fishing for compliments." the fact is, i go to a university with a whole lot of women who -do- fit the thin, pretty, cute stereotype. personally, i like me alright, so that isn't an issue - but my point is, even when i am not dressed provocatively, do not fit the stereotype of what is considered pretty in this country, etc. i still face daily sexual harassment. i've spent the last two years -not- running away from myself and dealing with my issues, but quite frankly, i'm tired of it. i've done the best i can to "let it roll off my back" and "ignore it" but it's humiliating, degrading, and deeply affecting. it would be one thing if it happened once a week, or once a month - but i cannot walk to work or home from work without experiencing it.

rule, i do not want to hide away all women. that's just crazy talk - where did i say that i think everyone should keep hijab? keeping hijab also ranges from wearing the khimar (what's usually called the hijab, a headscarf) to wearing a burqa, so not all forms of it "hide women away." i may not be a particularly good feminist, but i am a feminist, and i believe women should be able to dress the way they choose to dress - whether that's in a miniskirt or a burqa. i'm not sure what your flower analogy has to do with anything - women are not inanimate objects, and we do have emotions, and unfortunately we do have to deal with other people's perceptions of what we look like. quite frankly, i'm tired of carrying it around. flowers do not.

i'm still lost on where attitude and perception problems come in to my spiritual path, so maybe you could help me with that. my master generally likes my attitude and my perception, and last i checked he didn't think anything needed to be changed. we had a discussion once when i first started reading more about gorean slavery over whether all women should be submissive, and also (because at the time i had just started facing sexism and sexual harrassment at my job) whether i should consider it my "place" not to confront people who make those kinds of comments. i was actually surprised by his views that my submission is very much a choice and that i should feel free to confront people who say things like that. then again, after reading your story - we're in this for the long haul and both of us very deeply understand that we won't always look and feel the way we do at the moment.

greetings level,

thanks so much for the book recommendations! :) i will check the library. i tend to go a bit crazy buying books, and i wasn't sure what books would be good to start out, so i have kind of stayed away from it for the last month or so - so i really appreciate this :)

greetings aneirin,

i was thinking similarly - the only topics i've really seen on islam have been negative or related to war, and as i mentioned earlier, it's surprised me that we have discussions on paganism and bdsm, christianity and bdsm, etc. but islam is usually not discussed. thank you for the suggestion.

greetings .the.dark.,

i'm beginning to think i should not have mentioned that because it seems people are taking it as the primary or only reason i would like to keep hijab, and it's not - it's just one thing that i have thought very much about in relation to it. i used to work for a muslim couple and i remember the wife talking often (she had not kept hijab before getting married) about going to the mall and having people react to her negatively or kids make comments about how she was scary because of her headscarf. so i understand that it's not a cure for negative attention, or anything like that, and that's not my primary reason for wearing it - i guess part of the reason i mentioned it is that for me it's one example of why i have become more interested and appreciative of islamic attitudes towards women, in contrast to the attitudes that i have grown up with and currently experience. but it's not the only reason for that, nor the only or primary reason i would like to keep hijab. thanks for your message!

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 1/18/2008 7:31:56 AM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 15

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 8:05:49 AM

seeksfemslave

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Hisannabelle: I would like to know what form this harassment you claim you suffer really takes.

I had a quick look at your profile and bingo you are 20 or thereabouts; a time for self doubt and reevaluation if ever there was one.
I state without any doubt whatsoever that very very very few people of your age are unattractive. If you are intelligent enough to go to University then should know that not fitting a stereotype is only of consequence if you allow it to be.
just to add: it wasn't me who accused you of fishing for complements

You are bright, articulate and young and should have lots to look forward to.We all know that youth can be a time of mental anguish. If thats fits you it will almost certainly pass my dear I say patronisingly.

IMO converting to Islam will not be an answer and whatever you do dont try and leave then you may well suffer some real harassment lol

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Post #: 16

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 8:17:43 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings seeksfemslave,

it's primarily street harrassment, which when it's isolated can be simply annoying, but when it's nearly every day is extremely wearing. groping is also fairly common, as is dealing with having to listen to sexist comments and conversations at work (which, again, isolated doesn't bother me so much, but when it's hour-long or every 30 minutes every single time i work, it gets a bit wearing, and i'm not sure it's entirely unrelated to the fact that we don't have any women at any level of management where i work). perhaps i'm more sensitive to things like this as a rape survivor and as someone who has dealt with body image issues, but i don't think i'm necessarily a prude (although i am often made to feel like one when i try to confront it, especially at work). i'm just kind of sick of it. the age old "it's only of consequence if you let it be" is one thing if it's something that it's possible to ignore, or it's something that one only experiences every once in awhile. it's also very easy to say when you're not the one experiencing it.

i know it wasn't you, but yours and rule's posts kind of addressed similar issues - i apologize if i was wrong to group my response mostly together.

as i mentioned in my response to .the.dark., i see now that harrassment is something i should not have brought up as it seems everyone has taken it as my primary reason when it's simply something i've thought about in conjunction with my growing appreciation for attitudes towards women in islam. i suppose at this point it's impossible to undo the damage by saying that my interest in islam is very much religious and spiritual and not particularly related to my experience of being harrassed, but it never hurts to try.

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 1/18/2008 8:20:59 AM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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Post #: 17

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 8:29:55 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
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I suspect that you may find the attitudes toward women behind Islam are not that far removed from the practitioners of any other religion.

It is about the human hard wiring to abuse power over others, and organized religion often generates a smokescreen.

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Post #: 18

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 8:32:45 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

is it even humanly possible to have a discussion thread on islam as a religion, as a spiritual practice without turning it into a red herring thread (on sexual harassment) or another islam-bashing thread on this forum?

seriously. the issue of sexual harrassment was not the point of the thread. the issue of attitudes towards women is my own personal experience and that of women i personally know, not a sweeping general statement about islam itself, and yet again, not the purpose of the thread.

just curious. i sincerely apologize for my naive attempt.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 1/18/2008 8:33:28 AM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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Post #: 19

RE: muslim(ah) members? - 1/18/2008 8:44:26 AM

acissej

Posts: 2370
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From: New Jersey
Status: offline

Just to add on what Aneirin said, I'm pretty sure there are some Muslims on the site. I haven't come across any in the forums, but I've spoken with several on the other side. For a while, I had a picture up that apparently looked like I was wearing a niqab, and I heard from a handful of men in Egypt who were excited to see what they thought was a Muslim woman on the site. We had some fascinating discussions about BDSM in Egypt, and what connections they saw between their faith and sexuality.

Good luck!
Jessica

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 20

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