RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abortion be?

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 6:31:05 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why don`t you just answer the question?

If one is going to ask a speculative question like the one in the OP, than I think one needs to set the parameters first. I think it is very fair to ask my question first. If abortion is illegal. than I am assuming the powers that made it illegal will have given a legal definition as to what a fetus actually is. I can answer fargle's question once I know what that definition is.

That evasion is worthy of a politician!

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 6:32:34 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
So, what should penalty for having an illegal abortion be?

To make owner happy... In the scenario, where the question is asked, how did the powers that made abortion illegal, define fetus in their law?

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Post #: 42

RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 6:40:04 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
That evasion is worthy of a politician!

Not at all...

If one
is going to face punishment for a crime, one needs to know and in fact has the unalienable right to know what crime they are facing and why it is a crime.

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 6:49:42 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

If one is going to face punishment for a crime, one needs to know and in fact has the unalienable right to know what crime they are facing and why it is a crime.

Okay, here's a excerpt from the March for Life website:

The life of each human being shall be preserved and protected from that human being's biological beginning when the Father's sperm fertilizes the Mother's ovum, and

The protection shall extend from the beginning of each human being's life—acknowledged to be when the father's sperm fertilizes the mother's ovum—and throughout the natural continuum of that human being's life.

Let's say they carry the day, and the state of Hypothetica outlaws terminating any pregnancy after fertilization. The next question, which antiabortion folk seem higly unwilling to face, would be what should the penalty be.

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Post #: 44

RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 6:55:13 PM

dcnovice

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From the 2004 Republican Platform:

We must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the 14th Amendment's protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.

We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption.

Emphasis added.

Must confess I'm unclear on why the Grand Old Party, generally a law-and-order sort of crowd, opposes "punitive action" against someone who violates another's "fundamental individual right to life."

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 7:03:32 PM

Tantriqu

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Remember, extramarital sex rates haven't changed since WWII.

I say: no penalty to the mother, full penalties to the dad.
Seems fair...
THAT would cut the abortion rate overnight.

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Post #: 46

RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 7:04:57 PM

FatDomDaddy

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if the law says that a fetus is a human life, then the penalty for said crime should fall withing the charging offense of murder and or manslaughter in what ever degree the state finds the violation to be in. As such the penality could be anything from probation to the death penalty depending of the state.

I myself do not feel death is warranted in any violation.

Give me the details...

Did the woman, knowingly, commit a premeditated willful act of killing a human life? Well then, murder in the first degree might then be charged.
Was she coerced, lied to, tricked into killing a human life? Then perhaps manslaughter with probation might be in order.

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 7:11:52 PM

dcnovice

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Thanks, FDD! I appreciate your honest answer.

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 7:53:16 PM

LadyAngel1

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Yes it's true "So many" people who are pro life are also pro death penalty. I didn't say all people. I have reason to say it by looking at the many politicians and spokespeople on the poltical front who are pro-life and pro-death penalty, (not to mention those I have spoken to and the many posts I have read at CollarMe and other political forums which address the same issue). I believe we have one of those pro-life/pro-death penalty believers sitting in the white house at the moment. There are so many, that's what I said, but it wasn't all I said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngel1

What I find ironic is that so many people who are pro life are also pro death penalty. Go figure.

That's an odd sterotype. Do you have some reason to believe it? (It fails in my case. :P)

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 8:00:07 PM

LadyAngel1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

if the law says that a fetus is a human life, then the penalty for said crime should fall withing the charging offense of murder and or manslaughter in what ever degree the state finds the violation to be in. .

The thing is.... presently, the law does not give a "human life" label to any and all fetuses. If the law were to change- the same fetus would not be a human life one day but would be (by law) a human life the next day. It's not an issue that murder shouldn't be illegal. Murder (unless approved by the government) will likely always be illegal, but what is considered to be a human life can change over night. That to me is a big problem.

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 8:17:33 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I think the people in the interviews were totally honest.

They had NEVER thought out the implications of Abortion = Murder past "We need to make it illegal!".

And I don't think they'd ever be encouraged to. Remember, to always follow the money.

That meme, is all that's *really necessary* for the hucksters *running* the Pro-Life campaigns and making all the money off the gullible "believers" to have, the "easy answers without difficult questions"?

There's a certain mentality, which i find very difficult to comprehend, that believes that simply creating a law against something you don't like will make it stop. Afraid of gun violence? Outlaw guns, it'll stop! Afraid of getting lung cancer? Outlaw cigarettes, everyone will be fine and dandy! i expect that there are a lot of people in the crowd who are sincerely upset by the idea of abortion and never go any further, mentally speaking.

While i'm ardently pro-choice (in pretty much everything), i have a simple solution. Make the woman carry the pregnancy to term, adopt the baby out/leave it on a church doorstep/grind it up for dog food/whatever, then sterilize her. Since the anti-choice faction loves to rant and rave about women who get frequent abortions as a form of birth control (since abortions are so much fun!) it'll kill two birds with one stone.

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RE: So, what should penalty for having an illegal abort... - 1/24/2008 8:34:54 PM

Lucylastic

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ahem I lost my train of thought...... when they were giving out brains, I thought they said trains , and asked for a small slow one.
Lucy
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< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/24/2008 8:47:46 PM >

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