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RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 2:22:38 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		MissSCD,

--- I have no problem with ProDommes.  I refer
--- new comers to them because they need to try
--- out the life and see if that is what they want to
--- do.  Then they can look for a relationship with
--- a Domme.

Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.  Why on earth would someone go to a professional when what they seek is the mutual joy in sharing and exchanging intimacy of the heart?  Submission, to me, has *nothing* to do with getting my ass flogged or any other kind of play.  BDSM play is a fringe benefit that comes along with expressing mutual affection.  It's fun too.  But, play has little to do with what drives me to share my submissive soul with a Domina.

Elan.

(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 2:24:45 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

Politesub53:
Visiting a lifestyle Domina is more about time and effort, and while i know some guys visit just because, i assume most want to be involved in a D/s style relationship. Either on a permanent or at least continuos basis. For many who wish to serve, it isnt about the BDSM, its about the interaction on a more spiritual level. For many who visit a Pro Domme its about the BDSM side of things. There is nothing wrong with either way, both are just.... Different.


I tend to agree with this.

Elan.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 2:27:04 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

Marsh:
I think it important to note, neither pro nor life-style need to validate or justify, the opinions of others belong to them exclusively.


And I absolutely agree with this. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to Marsh)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 2:39:10 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Thankyou Shaktisama.

(in reply to Marsh)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 4:06:36 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress



"do u pay taxes on this income?"


no, I do not have to pay tax unless I receive more than $12,000 from one sub - since it is tribute (a gift) so Uncle Sam doesn't get a penny.


I certainly hope you don't use that as an audit defense. I suggest you see a professional tax lawyer on this one.

The problem with the gift idea is the quid-pro-quo. There is no such thing in gifting, but there is a quid-pro-quo in your business.


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/28/2008 4:14:38 PM >

(in reply to AtlantaMistress)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 4:12:59 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, but the OP's point of: what's the difference between services and cash is a valid one?

In each case, professional and non professional, the Domme is extracting value from the sub. If the services are a condition precedent to being with a Domme, then there is the same quid-pro-quo that exists with a professional Domme.

I think the OP makes a valid point, and I don't think she was trying make a universal characterization of lifestyle relationships either. Rather, she was just making a logical observation.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/28/2008 4:16:43 PM >

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 5:01:39 PM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I was a little surprised by the OP's post, or maybe just the location of it, because I wasn't aware that lifestyle Dommes spend a lot of energy criticizing Pros.

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a.k.a. "mean Lady"


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 5:43:32 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, but the OP's point of: what's the difference between services and cash is a valid one?


If you genuinely can't see the difference between a loving relationship and a cold economic transaction, stick with the pros.  It will be much safer and healthier for someone like you to remain in the hands of an ethical professional.  As I have acknowledged, there ARE bad people out there who pose as "lifestyle" dommes, but who are really just usurious abusers.  A person who cannot cannot perceive when he is truly loved and valued by a dominant woman will become the natural prey to abusive "fake" dommes over and over, and sticking with a pro will actually protect him from being sucked brutally dry by Vampire Bitches From Hell. 

quote:


I think the OP makes a valid point, and I don't think she was trying make a universal characterization of lifestyle relationships either. Rather, she was just making a logical observation.


I don't think she was making a valid point, but that's because I am not blind to the world of loving, playful and mutually pleasurable relationships that a real lifestyle domme belongs to.  The OP is not part of that world, and doesn't seem to believe it exists, and clearly many men are blind to it as well.

These men and the women who beat them for money are natural partners in the D/S world.  They are welcome to each other, and I do not condemn them at all.  But neither will I tolerate being told by a professional that "All dommes are cold and unloving users, the pros are just honest about it."  Because that is grotesquely offensive and deeply untrue.

_____________________________

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(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 6:31:42 PM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

quote:

Marsh:
I think it important to note, neither pro nor life-style need to validate or justify, the opinions of others belong to them exclusively.


And I absolutely agree with this. :-)

Elan.



Agreed...can we use this quote in the next Pro-Domme bash or rant thread?
And I agree also with cloudboy; I think the OP made a logical observation, she wasn't trying to lump all Dominas into one group or type.  I think it was more of a "see this isn't so bad, it's kind of similar" paragraph.  Perhaps she'll return to clear up any confusion?
Pro-Domination is not for Me, but I think Pro Dominas are needed. 
~Kara

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(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 6:36:57 PM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

But neither will I tolerate being told by a professional that "All dommes are cold and unloving users, the pros are just honest about it."  Because that is grotesquely offensive and deeply untrue.


I have looked for this quote... where did the OP say this in her post?

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 7:18:40 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress

To answer the question though - no, I do not have to pay tax unless I receive more than $12,000 from one sub - since it is tribute (a gift) so Uncle Sam doesn't get a penny. I paid high taxes (because of my income level) for many years, and now I take about 10% of what I receive and give to charities of my choice. I also am often known to help others who are lost and trying to get their lives back together since I went through that at one point. I am very generous in that way, not only with my $, but with something much more valuable, my time.



That's not true. If the IRS goes after you, that defense will never fly.

By what you are saying...that would be like any business doesnt have to pay taxes unless a single customer gives them "a gift" of $12,000 or more. That just doesnt work.

You are providing a service. And you are requiring compensation for that service. That puts you in the same category as a hairdresser or a consultant, or accountant, or plumber. The payment you collect is taxable.

Now if you dont require compensation and your client shows up at the door with something.....that's a gift.

There is a clear difference.

(in reply to AtlantaMistress)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 7:39:15 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess
I have looked for this quote... where did the OP say this in her post?


I was summarizing the message of this last passage below (I will break it down line by line to demonstrate exactly why I found it stupid and offensive):

quote:

Lifestyle dommes, you claim to not be professional.
(Implication:  you are lying to yourself and your partner about the nature of your needs and demands--the word "claim" here automatically accuses lifestyle dommes of being deceptive.)

Yet many of you focus on the service a male sub can provide you, the things he can do for you because you are the Mistress after all.  This can range from simple housework to full-blown gift purchasing.  So, please do tell me who is more honest?

(Implication:  only pro-dommes are "honest", and the rest of you who think you do it for "love", "pleasure", "friendship" or "fun" are deceiving yourselves and others.  D/S service, sex or power exchange in the context of a relationship is exactly analogous to a paid "scene".)

Those of us who clearly state our motives and take the green stuff or those of you who bash us yet expect gifts, dinners and service? 

(Implication:  men in general and submissive men in particular are not capable of offering a gift, a meal or service to a woman unless they are cynically manipulating her to have their sexual needs met.  There is no love between men and women, only cold equations of supply and demand.)

Why not add up all you gain from the males who serve you and see the dollar amount attached?

(Implication:  a single dollar value can be placed on the love and devotion you receive from a male submissive who feels that you have a meaningful relationship.  This dollar value is higher than what he might pay to a pro domme to have the EXACT SAME NEEDS met, but it is still something that can be reduced to cash for both parties.  Pro dommes, in other words, are just a less expensive and more honest version of the exact same thing that a man might receive from a lifestyle D/S relationship.)


This is the last post I'm going to make to this thread.  There are obviously some people who will never "get it"--they are trapped in a world where men and women can only meet for cold sexual-economic negotiations, and have no other reason to bond, spend time with one another, or exchange power and energy.

I think that's pitiful, and I feel sorry for such people, but not so sorry for them that I'm going to allow myself to be compared unfavorably with a sex worker, or have my lovers and friends compared unfavorably to a pro domme's clients.

The OP knew damn well that she was being insulting and offensive.  Hey, guess what--it worked!  What a surprise.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to KaramelGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/28/2008 8:01:12 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		wants a $12,000 GIFT!!!!    i'd be in vegas  sooooooooooo fast!

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Imperfect.
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SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/29/2008 8:41:34 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama


If you genuinely can't see the difference between a loving relationship and a cold economic transaction, stick with the pros.



I think you are mis-characterizing the OPs point. She never used the term "loving relationship" -- she said, "Lifestyle dommes, you claim to not be professional. Yet many of you focus on the service a male sub can provide you, the things he can do for you because you are the Mistress after all. This can range from simple housework to full-blown gift purchasing."

She was talking about some Domme's whose first priority is service from their submissives.

Her point is a narrow one and it is logical as well.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/29/2008 8:42:17 PM >

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/29/2008 8:44:28 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

Well, I was a little surprised by the OP's post, or maybe just the location of it, because I wasn't aware that lifestyle Dommes spend a lot of energy criticizing Pros.


Well, sometimes a person's just got to rant.

(in reply to Misstoyou)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/29/2008 9:06:42 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Good seeing you here again Simone.  I'm sorry that we didn't get more time to spend catching up in Providence.

I think your rant has it's points, but be careful of the barbs flung at the "lifestyle" women (suggesting that the financial exchange legitimizes the relationship.)  I think each has a place and one isn't more holy or deserving than the other. 

I think most if not all of your points apply in circumstances of decent dominant women -- whether they are paid or not paid to exert their dominance and control on another.  We know not all pros are ethical.  We both know pros who have done things to hurt their clients -- physically, through theft and by ruining the gentleman's career or home life.  But I too can think of a few select dominant women in lifestyle circles who shouldn't be allowed near a whip for their miserable behaviors or attitudes.  There are people who suck at being people, regardless of their being paid.

So long as there is a demand for individuals to seek out an exchange without obligation other than the money, pros will always have a place in society.  I don't see that changing, however, it's likely to evolve even further than you and I have witnessed in the past 10 years.  Pro doms wouldn't be resorting to selling items, movie clips and DVDs if their RT sessions were keeping them occupied.  I just hope that those who are decent to their clientele and who run a reputable shop can find a way to stay afloat and make it through these changing times.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MsSimone)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/29/2008 11:55:03 PM   
okeytobow


Posts: 8
Joined: 12/31/2004
Status: offline 		YOU GO GIRL...Nice post and I believe you are very accurate in describing yourself as a pro.  you take much of your clients needs into consideration and in many cases probably work better then a therapist.  While I no longer go to Pro's I was very fortunate to meet a few like yourself when I was young ,scared ,and completly alone with these desires.  I was met with compassion,realness, and reassurance that I was okay...
Thus
Okeytobow

(in reply to Marsh)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/30/2008 2:43:56 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama


And as a pro domme, you are not being "loved" by yours--regardless of how much they pay.....

When I meet a man who needs to submit, and has nothing to offer but cash--I'll send him to you.

If you meet a man who needs to submit, and has nothing to offer but his heart--you send him to me. 


Umm......actually in my city there are submissives/slaves who genuinely adore their Dommes and have for years and years.  And their Dommes are professionals.  No kidding. 

If anything, some of these sub men seem a hell of a lot happier (to me as an outsider) than the poor guys drifting from lifestyle to lifestyle "Mistress". 

Doesn't the quality of the D/s relationship depend on the dynamic between the individuals, not who paid who cash?

There can be a genuine affection between Mistress and sub that transcends the commercial relationship.  They actually like eachother as people.  The Mistress really enjoys herself and gets paid!  Lucky Bitch. 

[BTW:  I sometimes wonder if we lifestyle Mistresses are just a tad jealous of the reality that regular clients love their Dommes so much they happily play and pay.  While we lifestylers are called money-grubbing gold diggers if we dare expect the guy to buy lunch.....its so unfair!]

But seriously, I cannot understand why the OP is so defensive of her choice of profession. What's wrong with being a pro-domme if that is your calling in life?  Why feel the need to explain yourself?


< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 1/30/2008 2:47:51 AM >

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(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/30/2008 3:06:50 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

Pro doms wouldn't be resorting to selling items, movie clips and DVDs if their RT sessions were keeping them occupied.  


i dont see this Ma`am, surely its easier to see one client, film the session, then sell dvds ect , than to see several clients to get the same income ?

One point not mentioned is that many prodommes are also lifestylers. As in all walks of life, you will find good and bad in both areas.

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Rant by a prodomme... - 1/30/2008 4:21:41 AM   
SolangeRichards


Posts: 170
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline 		"Pro doms wouldn't be resorting to selling items, movie clips and DVDs if their RT sessions were keeping them occupied."


Really?  If there is a market for the items, why not service it?

Toyota sells plenty of cars, and they resort to selling related accessories for them as well....

< Message edited by SolangeRichards -- 1/30/2008 4:24:33 AM >

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 40
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