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RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 3:21:22 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I said that's not always the case, KY. You're changing the meaning of what I wrote.


I do apologize then, Sanity, if I've misunderstood what you intended.   Perhaps you should have said that it seems to you that because we are invited guests here we should always be respectfully treated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
... Yeah, it's a free site. So? Why can't we give them some feedback. Why do we have to feel that if we speak our minds that it might be the last post we make here?


I don't think anyone is saying you cannot give feedback.  I'm not sure what it is that you have a problem with, but there is a difference between giving constructive feedback and criticizing how they run their site and who they "employ" to administer their rules.

And, it is their site... not ours.  We are only playing in a playground they kindly provide for our use.

As I mentioned above, when we signed up for membership with CollarMe, we each indicated that we had read and understood the the site's TOS and agreed to abide by them.  We are also adults and hopefully responsible enough to have taken the time to read the guidelines for posting in this forum.

They very clearly state...
The administration has the authority to handle situations in whatever manner they feel to be in the best interests of the forum, at that moment, in response to that event.
And they also contain the following...
Your choice to participate on this forum is an acceptance of its guidelines and the authority of its administration.
It seems to me that we also have the choice not to participate.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 3:21:46 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well...I have to say. I'm one of those who have tried and tried repeatedly to find out what I did wrong or against the TOS that deserved being moderated. And the response I get froma moderator mentioned here alot is "Don't push your luck jen." As if it's a threat...or I'm an unruely child. Not as if I had just asked...okay...when or how is this okay? What did I do wrong? I don't get answers to those questions. And if it weren't for the fact that it's against the TOS to post those emails I would.

I guess this is what happens when people who don't have any REAL control choose to exhert any control they can get their fingers sunk into.

(in reply to Crush)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 3:24:46 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		I have received one letter from Mod11 when I first started posting and it was very polite.... I went to the TOS and re read them and it was very apparent what I did wrong.  I wrote and apologized and havent forgotten once not to do that again ... Im wayy to old to enjoy having my hands slapped.

Edited to add ... I cant imagine not having any clue about why I got my hand slapped after rereading the TOS....

< Message edited by MissHarlet -- 2/3/2008 3:26:32 PM >

_____________________________

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To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 3:50:49 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I said that's not always the case, KY. You're changing the meaning of what I wrote.


I do apologize then, Sanity, if I've misunderstood what you intended.   Perhaps you should have said that it seems to you that because we are invited guests here we should always be respectfully treated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
... Yeah, it's a free site. So? Why can't we give them some feedback. Why do we have to feel that if we speak our minds that it might be the last post we make here?


I don't think anyone is saying you cannot give feedback.  I'm not sure what it is that you have a problem with, but there is a difference between giving constructive feedback and criticizing how they run their site and who they "employ" to administer their rules.

And, it is their site... not ours.  We are only playing in a playground they kindly provide for our use.

As I mentioned above, when we signed up for membership with CollarMe, we each indicated that we had read and understood the the site's TOS and agreed to abide by them.  We are also adults and hopefully responsible enough to have taken the time to read the guidelines for posting in this forum.

They very clearly state...
The administration has the authority to handle situations in whatever manner they feel to be in the best interests of the forum, at that moment, in response to that event.
And they also contain the following...
Your choice to participate on this forum is an acceptance of its guidelines and the authority of its administration.
It seems to me that we also have the choice not to participate.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 3:56:30 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Well...I have to say. I'm one of those who have tried and tried repeatedly to find out what I did wrong or against the TOS that deserved being moderated. And the response I get froma moderator mentioned here alot is "Don't push your luck jen." As if it's a threat...or I'm an unruely child. Not as if I had just asked...okay...when or how is this okay? What did I do wrong? I don't get answers to those questions. And if it weren't for the fact that it's against the TOS to post those emails I would.

I guess this is what happens when people who don't have any REAL control choose to exhert any control they can get their fingers sunk into.


Hi Jen, i am admin on a sports forum in the UK, with much the same problems as here. We have a system where if any admin or moderators emails anyone, a copy is kept on the "Moderators " section of the forum. We also insist that each of us give the user being moderated a clear reason as to why. This way the Admin and moderators can keep a check on each other as well. At some poing all of us have been told with the others we dealt with something badly. Its not a perfect system but its pretty good in the main. The majority of our users undertsand this and react pretty well to polite emails.

As for warning people about behaviour ect ect, you would be suprised at the number of people who just keep posting as they see fit, ending in a total ban. Its unpaid, its thankless and its extremely difficult to decide, especially on the spur of the moment, how far to let threads go without stepping in.

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 4:01:46 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

As I tell my students....it is the "football rule"

---When a bunch of people get together to play football and only one person brings a football, who makes up the rules?    The person with the football, of course!

Forums are perfect examples of the "football rule" in practice....CollarMe brings the football and makes up the rules.  If you can't play by the rules, you are welcome to go get your own football (forum) and set the rules!

That's you you get free speech...you set up your own "publication" ... bring your own football to the game....




Which is the course of action that has led so many people to abandon a certain other well known kink site in favor of CM... Are you seriously advocating that CM follow their downard spiral?

(in reply to Crush)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 4:06:39 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		I moderate several yahoo groups and will sonn be editing a site to include a blog and feedback forum. I GET that this is a "thankless" job. It's also what I signed up for when agreeing to be the moderator. I'm not an ass...I explain as clearly and politely what I'm andoing and why and if they have any questions I try to answer them or direct the to the owner of the list or site. Senseless badgering of a poster because I don't like them is childish.

And hollow threats in moderation is silly. Especially when you're on a site where profiles can be created left and right without check and one can continue to post through other profiles.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 8:34:03 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

Ok, some of this crap has been rolling around in my head for years ...

I have been on the CollarMe forums for a long time.  I haven't always been as active as now, and have had periods of time when I was very active.


Hey brother.....


Is it possible that you're actually the '' Termyn8or '' in disguise? I had a hard time getting to the finish line





- R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/3/2008 10:52:16 PM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		Firmhand, your analysis is a thoughtful one. 

I appreciated reading it.  There might be areas where my experience or conclusions differ from yours, but on the whole, you managed to lay out a sensible discussion of issues which have "rolled around in my head" for some time as well.

Ultimately, I find CM's boards run as well as, or better than, most other forums.  And it's CM's game, which we all get to play for free.  Speaking of "free", as in speech, we have that here, I feel, in adequate measure.  Adequate, becasue this is far and away not the only outlet to exercise our right.  Just one among many.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post.



_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 3:39:29 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Hey brother.....

Is it possible that you're actually the '' Termyn8or '' in disguise?


lol...

Allow me to assure you.  He is not.  

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 4:32:03 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

Firmhand, your analysis is a thoughtful one.

I appreciated reading it.  There might be areas where my experience or conclusions differ from yours, but on the whole, you managed to lay out a sensible discussion of issues which have "rolled around in my head" for some time as well.

Ultimately, I find CM's boards run as well as, or better than, most other forums.  And it's CM's game, which we all get to play for free.  Speaking of "free", as in speech, we have that here, I feel, in adequate measure.  Adequate, becasue this is far and away not the only outlet to exercise our right.  Just one among many.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post.




Well I brought up several issues that have yet to show up.   [awating approval]

Concluding that the freedom of speech on any board is adequate because there are other outlets availiable or because you can go elsewhere is rather rediculous.   After all we could put a bucket over our heads in a sound proof room and since we are able to physically speak call that freedom of speech.     

Neither does it make any sense to conclude that since a board is free that any level of management should be accepted as "ok because its free".    If someone wanted to make a board for thieir own prvate use then I could understand it but if they want to invite the public then public critisism is fair play.

As I said in my first post I think: "The litmus test for freedom of speech would show it is only free when spoken where no one wants to hear it"  People have the option to walk out of the room if they do not want to hear it, they have the option to turn off the offending radio or tv.  Instead people seem to rather want to control what comes out of others mouths restricting freedom of speech or letting someone exercize it elsewhere instead of allowing the speech and exercizing their right to skip th, or turn off the radio etce post or move far enough away so they do not hear it.

Singing to your own choir, going elsewhere, and talking to yourself in a soundproof room is hardly freedom of speech.

I would rate his op as luke warm at best having been on boards since before www was created. 300 baud bbs was state of art screaming.



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/4/2008 4:43:21 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to OedipusRexIt)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 9:18:05 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		FR:

Sorry I couldn't respond yesterday, after my original post.  I didn't abandon the thread, but I had to drive down to Atlanta, and didn't get a chance to post until now.

I thank everyone for their comments to date.

I know the OP was very long - into "skim through" territory for length for many people.  I apologize, but there was a lot of material to cover, and even with the short time I had, and verbosity I displayed, I still didn't cover all of them - or even develop in detail the ones I did hit on (hence the "book coming to Amazon" comment).

Probably the most important issue that I didn't specifically address, that seems to have generated the most comments was the one of what is said and how a moderator "chastises" a member.

As has been said - repeatedly - there is no one member who has seen all the emails that a moderator sent out, therefore any conclusions are indeed an unsupported generalization.

Many people have said that the "Letters of Chastisement" (henceforth LoC) have been short and to the point.  Just as many others seem to be saying that the LoC contain profanity and/or vulgarity and are belittling and demeaning instead of educational and enlightening.

I have to agree, that any emails from someone representing a company such as CollarMe should be as professional and straightforward as possible.  Anything less is counterproductive to the success of CM.

From memory, none of my LoC emails used profane or vulgar language, although - entirely from memory - they seemed occasionally abrupt.

I also agree that specifying clearly what the infraction is - in as specific terms as possible - would be a very helpful thing, and would recommend it as a policy.

I think I mentioned in my OP that I believe that moderators are humans, with all the normal human failures and success, and it is entirely possible that Mod XI has reacted in a less than perfect manner on occasion.  I know I do.

Any deviation from the best possible behavior is an invitation for improvement, and perhaps this thread is illuminating an area that the moderators may not have considered.  I would hope that they consider it constructive criticism.

Perhaps the site programmers could - for the moderators use only - add a "zap" button to each post, where a moderator would get a menu of options for comment, and would only be required to check off a block for the pertinent reason that the posters deserves attention, and when the mod clicks "finished" it automatically sends an email to the poster.  An example:

This post has been identified as possibly a violation of the TOS and/or standards of conduct or reasonable guidelines of the Collar Me forums.

Consider this as:

[ ] Helpful information
[ ] A warning
[ ] A Notification of two weeks of modification
[ ] A banning from the CM forums.

Reason:

[ ] Name calling
[ ] Please do not post embedded graphics
[ ] Unnecessarily crude, rude or abrasive behavior
[ ] Do not post the same item in multiple forums.
[ ] Baiting
[ ] Discussion of a possibly illegal act (Forbidden Topic).
[ ] Thread Hijacking
[ ] Just being an Ass
[ ]  etc, etc etc

Copy of Post:

(highlight or point out specific issue, if desired)

Mod Comments (Optional):

Something like this would keep the amount of time down required for a mod to actually respond to a questionable post, and ensure that the initial interaction with the offender was complete, informative and professional.

Comments?

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 2/4/2008 9:38:05 AM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 9:27:56 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It would clarify matters for those who were on the receiving end of modmail and modwrath (sounds like a creature in Tolkien). Have you suggested it to the administrators of the site?



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(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 9:35:42 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It would clarify matters for those who were on the receiving end of modmail and modwrath (sounds like a creature in Tolkien). Have you suggested it to the administrators of the site?




I consider this post the suggestion to the admins, through the mods.  'Cause if the mods don't buy into it, it's unlikely that the admin would consider it.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 9:37:08 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		whats wrong with the automatic 7/10 vote system done by the users?

at the bottom of each new post there is a <delete> button and any user can click on it and pull up something from ther zap menu.  On the 8th delete vote the post is autodeleted and an email with the reason and a copy auto sent.

The mod does not even have to get involved and the board self polices.

This whole country seems to be going through an its ok they are human phase from the president all the way down.  Not all aspects fall under that catagory


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 9:37:19 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Touché :-) .

_____________________________



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 9:44:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Ijust got my first spank from ModXI.  She quoted the relevant text, and told me not to do it again. Terse but not rude.

_____________________________

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 10:00:32 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		OK- when moderated- is it for 2 weeks then??


Ild like to seee a note from a mod- that occassionally says good job. Tho a number not already used.  I get this sinking feeling when I get a notice..and yes I have gotten 48,296 notices.  [hehe thats on the high side hehe]

Once told I get angry.  Who would be happy over it??  Then I think thru all my actions.  I methodically think 123, abc, x =y and sometimes z.

It is sorta like a critival aunt or grandma or motherinlaw. One can do everything well- and the one error is the entire thing noticed.

Conversely- If I am wrong I am wrong. I realize I am a guest on someone elses space. And I must abide by the rules.

One time I blew up and thought about leaving.  I am glad I did not.
--in real life I am not appealing when I am enraged. I have had more then one lock ther door on me. :-)  Only when my sister told me did that make sense.

Then part of me is sick and tired over being sick and tired.

One buddy says I am too optimistic.  I think I am cynical.

Life is full of us practicing life. No one has perfected it. So being human everyone here will error. The only ones who wont are ones who wont participate.  There-in lies the riddle.  DO I participate and risk being shot down? Or do I forever stand on the sidelines of life? 

I laugh when someone in my yahoo groups threatens to leave. Im thinking- hell- why not demand a refund.  LOL

Lets take this to the next level- per real life. Do you participate?  Do you stand on the sidelines?

I by nature am curious. Maybe too much for my own good. I want to see how things work.

Finally- I try to locate solutions.  The world is complex.  Enuff of feeling who is me.  The powerfull are corrupt... how do I as a peon navigate the system.  Where is the path of least resistence.

< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 2/4/2008 10:04:49 AM >

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 10:18:00 AM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		I politely disagree with you, RealOne.

... and that's the beauty of free speech.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... - 2/4/2008 10:25:52 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Ijust got my first spank from ModXI.  She quoted the relevant text, and told me not to do it again. Terse but not rude.


and I think you will find this to be the case, rather than the exception, but if you know what's up, or have been around the barn long enough where you should know whats up, after a while a:

Give it a rest, (insert your moniker here).

should be sufficient to indicate that if you don't let go of it, it is not going to turn into your best day on earth.

Ron   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 80
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