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Aswad -> RE: Are women born to be bitches? (2/8/2008 11:50:08 AM)
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ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yes, as women are busy holding grudges and fighting pettily (NOT prettily) the guys get on with the program, even after they've disagreed.
Bingo. Najakcharmer asserted on the Gorean boards that women don't generally play the dominance game, and I'm vaguely inclined to agree, at least in part. There is certainly a "top dog" thing with women, too, but it seems differently arranged. Among other things, it appears more fluid and less hierarchial. But I won't pretend to understand the intricacies of female social structures and interactions. I would be tempted to guess that most females don't, either, but that would be an unsubstantiated guess that might seem disrespectful or condescending to those who don't know me.
Men do play the dominance game. I see it all the time. Most don't play it with me, but your guess is as good as mine as to why that is the case. Either way, the net result is that shit gets done in an orderly fashion. It may not be the right shit, but it does get done. We get in each other's faces, maybe even throw a few punches, and then we get on with business. Maybe we argue afterwards, too, but most likely we will grab a beer (or Strongbow Dry Cider in my case) and sit down to watch a football game (or a DVD in my case). It's not an ideal arrangement, but it would appear to have its merits, and it works.
I often hear it forwarded that women are focused on group harmony... I call bullshit... It's not group harmony I see women forwarding. Rather, I see them trying to keep things from breaking the surface or making waves. Putting a pretty face on things. Avoiding overt and open conflict. Besides... group harmony is an illusion. Even friends fall out occasionally. Feel free to tell me it's not the norm. I hope it isn't.
Anyway, neither approach is ideal... but the male approach wielded power and built empires.
To men, at least, that is a significant accomplishment; too bad it took forever for us to see that women are human, too.
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Perhaps a small level of organised violence acts as a catharsis for conflict resolution, or in general, it helps defuse people's aggressive streak (we all have testosterone in our system, women and men).
Seems to work for my sister, who is more aggressive in that regard than I am...
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Do you think that women have been discouraged from practicing much physical activity for the very reason that society did not want them to defuse their aggressivity?
Please be specific... when you say "society" here, do you mean "men" or "women" or both? [;)]
See, if you're talking about women, then it's a somewhat interesting paradox that can only (as I see it) be resolved by saying that this isn't where it is at. That, instead, women have an instinctual or culturally ingrained desire to maintain that order of things, and thus are reinforcing this in our culture. Which takes the aforementioned motive out of the picture, as it's probably not being considered at all.
But if you're talking about men, it comes down to suggesting that men are using it as a way to turn women on each other in order to maintain their own power. If so, then you give us too much credit, and it doesn't strike me as a typically male approach. We are, as a rule of thumb with definite exceptions, fairly direcct. Also, as a group, men are clueless as to how they can do such a thing. Some who realize it, successfully cheat on a ton of women at the same time, for instance. Again, typically male goal: more pussy, not systematic oppression of women.
Yet, therein lies an argument that holds some weight from an evolutionary angle: men are often pretty much just the crude "tireless producers of abundance" (female-coined word for a man in ancient Sumerian; talk about objectification, neh?) who are looking for beer, sports/hunting/violence, pussy and offspring. Women who don't play the mating game don't reproduce as successfully as those who do, and men tend to be absolute sluts. So it comes down to controlling male access to pussy, and trying to make sure the man stays around. How does one do that?
Well, men tend to like trophies and status symbols as much as women do, if not more so. It makes sense (cf. the Sumerian reference). So women set out to make pussies into trophies and objects of commerce. A value is assigned. This pussy is better than that pussy. And, of course, the men want to sport the best pussy they can. Drive home the idea that a woman who is discerning about who she allows access to hers is better than those sluts. Low supply, high demand. Seems obvious it has to be a thing of value, no?
Paradoxically, prostitution has always been the one way in which any woman could achieve financial independence. And contrary to popular opinion, things weren't all that primitive in ages past. The modern symbol for the heart is the shape of the seed of Silphium, whicch was used as a contraceptive, or as an abortifactant (usually in combination with others, such as Hellebore, Rue, Papaya, St. John's Wort, etc.). Amusingly enough, this historical detail is correctly portrayed in the Rome TV-series. STDs is also a thing that was manageable to the point where the risk wasn't so much greater than for a regular person in serial monogamy with occasional affairs.
But that's a threat, of course. It means many men will deposit their seed without commitment. So, clearly, those aren't prostitutes, but rather whores. Low class pussy. Undesireable. Competition. And the worst sort of competition: the kind that offers a superior product at a lower price. Never mind that taking her down will hurt all women... she just has to go.
And violent women? That's the sort of competition that is driven. Willing to take a risk. Able to take you out permanently. Low class pussy.
Now, this all may sound a bit offensive, but it's a position that some feminists have forwarded in much the same words.
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Why though?
I don't know. One could speculate that Nietzsche's notions of slave morality are more suited to women... that they are usually more submissive by nature than men. But that would probably raise hackles all around, regardless of the disclaimers about "usually" and allowing all sorts of exceptions. So I'll leave you to ponder that possibility for yourself. Otherwise, I'm drawing a blank, you see.
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I'm glad you observed something which is very much obvious to me. Similarily, if a married woman is cheated on by her husband, she will reserve most of her venom for the other woman, not for her husband even though he was, after all, the one who broke his promise.
Bingo. Refering to the above, though, the other woman is the competition. The usual strategy (which by virtue of evolutionary success is emphasized over time, and thus reinforced) is to demonstrate that the second woman is less desireable, while the first one is more desireable, and vice versa. And in the context of subs and slaves, this means being more servile, taking more shit, and going back on limits. Aiming to please more than the other woman does. Which the POS bastard gets to reap the benefits of.
Thus, both women keep losing, because they keep throwing good effort after bad men.
Too many women give up hunting and start trying to be the best prey instead.
I can see that strategy going all sorts of places, few of them good.
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Are you talking about 'ownership of the cunt' and other apology (as in 'edification of something') for prostitution? That's worthy of a thread all of its own :-) .
It certainly is.
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To be fair... the system was already in place that ensured it would take women superhuman will to overcome its restrictions.
I was fair. Evidence points at a matriarchal origin for our species. Then we got patriarchy. I'm positing that the male tendency to move on and work together may have something to do with this. Which gives us the "system that was already in place." And after that, long after that, women managed to band together with enough strength to set things right again (right in the sense of equal opportunities and rights, along with equitable treatment; goals that haven't been reached entirely, yet, but which are very much underway).
And I have a lot of respect for the women who pulled it off, and those who follow in their footsteps without simply copying men's mistakes.
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They were placated by their biology; having 12, 14, 15 pregnancies in one lifetime, beginning in early adolescence, is a sure way to make a person stay away from the public sphere. Perhaps they were too busy with the ball game inside their bellies to have the energy to fight for the ball game outside of it?
Except women reined for several thousand years despite this.
Something changed at some point.
What was it?
Health,
al-Aswad.
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