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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 11:30:27 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You don't think that the republican righteous are gonna have to hold their nose and vote McCain Huckabee?

The reason in my mind (due to polling and exit polling loading of questions) that Iraq is not a priority according to polls, is that EVERYFIUCKINGBODY regardless of politic knows it is fait accompli, and everybody hears the flushing sound.

Same as everyone knows bush is gonna get dissed bigtime, and there will be no budgets (interim spending bills only) until a new president is elected, everyone is done with the fucking signing statements.

The congress (both sides of the isle) is gonna get tough on this shit, it is an election year and off for the congress, they gotta make heavy issues.

But you knew I would come up with that sort of viewpoint, Firm.
Ron  

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 12:07:55 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
No, if the Republicans lose the Presidential election, it won't because of any backlash from the war. It'll be because we allowed someone like McCain to be our candidate.

I'm having a lot of trouble with this. Why didn't a real palatable conservative run if McCain was so unacceptable? Was there ever one in the race? Was the GOP leadership so monumentally clueless about their own base that they really thought many evangelicals would vote for Romney? Was Fred Thompson supposed to come in at the last moment and simply be annointed the nominee after all that coy BS for months?

More directly was there ever a GOP candidate who had any hope of winning the nomination that you supported? Who and why?

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 12:22:25 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

OK   I wonder alot.   LOL   I was sitting here thinking.   The race is so close between Obama and Clinton that I wonder if it is tearing apart the party.   There appears to be alot of infighting between whom can beat McCain, whose programs are better, and who is going to be the one.  

The Republicans seem to be galvanizing.   McCain has what he needs now and I think his support will only grow within the party.

What do you guys think?


It's amazing how one person's view can be so distorted from reality based upon their political affiliations. The Republicans are galvanizing? It would do you a world of good to pull your nose away from a Fox broadcast every now and again.

Here is what I see transpiring....The Republicans are in some trouble. The Bible belt went to Huckabee. I heard that no Republican candidate has run a succesful campaign without attracting the far right religious component of the party.

There are going to have to be some serious fences mended in order for the religious right to accept McCain as their candidate.

As far as the Dems it is a two horse race. It appears as of late that they have made some fairly good strides to "act" rather civil towards one another....They run on different platforms. Obama is attracting some new voters towards his campaign...

I think you will see the tone throughout this election to remain somewhat civil. Just as McCain was gracious towards Romney and Huckabee in his victory speech last night.

However, whom ever wins the Dem nomination will probably automatically pick up the votes from the 2nd place finisher.

Can one be so sure that the same will transpire for the Republicans? If the far right does not feel that they have a candidate that meets their needs and qualifications would not bid well for the Republicans.

Let's face it, the worst scenario is that Hillary wins the nomination....It would galvanize the Republicans and the Independents in such a way that you will see a record number turn out to insure that she does not make it into the White House.

Go Obama!!!

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 2:30:41 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I thiink that it might just be a McCain Huckaby ticket for the Republicans, but I don't think that the Dems have anyone in the wings for VP.   And I just cant see an obama/clinton or clinton/obama ticket.

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 2:34:19 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		looks like its going to be a popular enough go where VP is only needed to buffer any shortcomings of the Prez candidate in sectors where they are out of round, for the general election.

McCain has got big fucking issues, he is gonna need like Huckabee or dick cheneys son or to dig up strom thurmond or some shit.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 2/6/2008 2:36:35 PM >

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 2:47:11 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		..i see how it's going to go......McCain calling in a spiritualist to channel the ghost of Reagan................

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:35:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..i see how it's going to go......McCain calling in a spiritualist to channel the ghost of Reagan................


hehe ... the Repubs have been "channeling Reagan" for the last several weeks, already ....

Firm


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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:40:35 PM   
liketophoto


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Status: offline 		There is always Edwards for V.P..

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:41:09 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

Why didn't a real palatable conservative run if McCain was so unacceptable?


Because it's all a fucking show to entertain the masses. The decision has been made already, and all this posturing and crap is simply to present the appearance of a democratic process.




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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:45:50 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
No, if the Republicans lose the Presidential election, it won't because of any backlash from the war. It'll be because we allowed someone like McCain to be our candidate.

I'm having a lot of trouble with this. Why didn't a real palatable conservative run if McCain was so unacceptable? Was there ever one in the race? Was the GOP leadership so monumentally clueless about their own base that they really thought many evangelicals would vote for Romney? Was Fred Thompson supposed to come in at the last moment and simply be annointed the nominee after all that coy BS for months?

More directly was there ever a GOP candidate who had any hope of winning the nomination that you supported? Who and why?


The "GOP leadership" isn't some kind of monolithic command structure.

The truth is that McCain was basically hors de combat over the summer.

The reason that a "real conservative" won't likely get the nomination is because they split their votes on other candidates, and left a window for McCain to get "the big mo".

The most conservative was Fred ... and if he had gotten in earlier, before many voters had settled on another candidate, he would have cleaned up, and knocked McCain out of the running.

He didn't. He screwed up by waiting, and dithering.

But, he did take some conservatives away from the others, such as Romney. If either Romney or "the Huckster" had dropped out, and the conservative bases votes for these two had been combined ... either one would have beat McCain.

Another interesting fact is that the Repub primary system is pretty well set up to elevate the chances of a non-conservative early in the primary process. McCain benefited from the votes of liberal Republicans and independents in several instances, and then - because of his preceived frontruner status - drew a lot of the middle of the road Republicans.

With the conservative base split all over the place, and the primaries set up to favor a non-conservative ... of course McCain is going to be difficult to beat for the nomination.

Firm


< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 2/6/2008 3:47:01 PM >

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:47:33 PM   
Zensee


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Status: offline 		Just thought you guys should know that we Canadians have been digging along the border and installing huge M*F*ing jacks. If you return another Republican president you will wake up to a 49th parallel which is now "the longest moat" in the world.

Not that we are trying to sway you all or anything, just saying...


Z.


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:49:01 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Heh... You should put up a fence to keep out all the economic refugees.



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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 3:51:24 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Just thought you guys should know that we Canadians have been digging along the border and installing huge M*F*ing jacks. If you return another Republican president you will wake up to a 49th parallel which is now "the longest moat" in the world.

Not that we are trying to sway you all or anything, just saying...


Z.



hee ... we are Americans ... we'll stock it with fish, and then charge the Canucks to fish ...

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 4:03:39 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Just thought you guys should know that we Canadians have been digging along the border and installing huge M*F*ing jacks. If you return another Republican president you will wake up to a 49th parallel which is now "the longest moat" in the world.

Not that we are trying to sway you all or anything, just saying...


Z.



hee ... we are Americans ... we'll stock it with fish, and then charge the Canucks to fish ...

Firm




ROFL   Now Now Firm   you know we can't charge them to fish off their side.   However, if we fill it full of piranaha then it would keep them from swimming south and definately secure the border.   LOL

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 4:56:26 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8353.html

I am not the only one that thinks things are getting messy in the Dem Party

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 4:57:49 PM   
Gwynvyd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..i see how it's going to go......McCain calling in a spiritualist to channel the ghost of Reagan................


*chokes on her coffee*

Now that is bloody briliant. Other then squicking the damn bible thumpers.. it might work!

I am with Lewis Black on the whole Dead Prez. thing

Gwyn

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 5:01:46 PM   
Zensee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hee ... we are Americans ... we'll stock it with fish, and then charge the Canucks to fish ...

Firm




Curses! Foiled again.

Very well then, Americans. Instead we shall travel to your border towns and purchase all their cheese and cigarettes.


Z.


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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 5:15:08 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		If we are gonna resurect anyone Lets consider Goldwater.    Drop a few nukes, solve a few problems.   Walk away and let them clean up the mess.   LOL

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 5:26:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I understand what you're saying in the rest of your post and while I disagree with some of it it isn't worth arguing about. But this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Another interesting fact is that the Repub primary system is pretty well set up to elevate the chances of a non-conservative early in the primary process. McCain benefited from the votes of liberal Republicans and independents in several instances, and then - because of his preceived frontruner status - drew a lot of the middle of the road Republicans.


I just don't buy it. Iowa, won by Huckabee and always trends conservative, New Hampshire, a very fiscally conservative state, and South Carolina, a very conservative heavily evangelical state, were the opening round of contests as usual. Florida and Michigan aren't exactly bastions of liberal republicanism either. Super Tuesday was 4 southern states as well as a number in the mountain west which are some of the most conservative in the nation. Which would have nicely offset the more moderate CA, NY and atlantic coast states. If this was a simple two man race between a moderate McCain and a conservative acceptable to the evangelicals it would be roughly a dead heat with a slew of conservative friendly contest coming the rest of the month.

Since I personally find neither Romney, Huckabee or Thompson to have been acceptable presidential candidates I'm quite content with the outcome but I see all this discontent from what is clearly the majority of the party and I have to wonder why the money went to Romney when anyone familiar with evangelicals could have told you he would never have been accpetable to the majority of them. Too many years of preachers denying that mormons are even christian to change opinions overnight for a candidate most had never heard of before.

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RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? - 2/6/2008 5:32:09 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8353.html

I am not the only one that thinks things are getting messy in the Dem Party

I know this will come to a chock to the GOP but teh Democratic party believes in democracy. We're going to cast our votes and let that determine things rather the rewriting rules for the benefit of certain candidates. I'll pretty much guarantee the convention won't go past teh first ballot and the loser will endorse the winner and will likely be the running mate.

Compare that to the GOP who is now functionally stuck with McCain due to primary rules changes in the New England and New York primaries that were intended to give Guiliani the nomination.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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