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Regarding "Old Guard" teachings and customs…

When I started going to Janus events (which at the time consisted of one event a month), it was about 85% gay men, about 13% lesbians, with literally a sprinkling of hetfolk like me. Among other things, it meant that "we" had to be careful about what we did and said. While "on paper" Janus was a pansexual organization (I don't think that the word pansexual was in widespread use at the time), in reality it had a very strong gay male leatherman atmosphere. Thus, being low-profile, relatively quiet, and courteous was a distinctly good idea if you were het.

Even in that atmosphere, there was something of a divide among the gay leathermen between the "highly ritualized" leathermen and the "California casual" leathermen. Interestingly enough, one of the items that was the subject of ongoing and vigorous debate at the time was whether or not it was proper for a bottom to initiate a conversation with a top. If memory serves, no consensus was ever reached.

(My personal "lowest common denominator" definition of BDSM is "ritualized sexual aggression and submission." I notice that, then as now, some of us want significantly more ritual associated with our BDSM than others want. I personally, as many of you know, definitely lean more towards the "California casual" end of the spectrum. I also notice that the "ritual" folks sometimes regard the "casual" folks as not treating SM with the respect it deserves, and that the "casual" folks sometimes regard the "ritual" folks as taking both themselves and SM with much more seriousness than necessary.)

Regarding the assertion that "people who didn't follow the Old Guard teaching were excluded from the community" -- that ain't exactly how I remember it. What I remember is that, then as now, if someone was considered to be dangerous, people would warn others about them. Also, then as now, this warning process lacked any shred of objectivity or due process. Then as now, abuses of this process, such as malicious warnings, occurred. I also remember that, then as now, people who were considered desirable and popular could repeatedly get away with things that would have gotten a less desirable, more unpopular person quickly shunned.

There was a sort of general saying that it was better to start out in the submissive or bottom role, but that was not universally agreed upon. I remember one person making this assertion at a Janus program sometime around 1980, and a large, butch-looking leatherman replied with a loudly uttered "Bullshit!" Nobody raced to disagree with him.

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  Very few men maintained full compliance with all these rules all the time, and some, flatly refused to follow rules they personally objected to. But, to be included one was expected to follow at least most of these rules most of the time. Also, confusingly, there was some variation in some of the rules depending on what city you happened to be in at the time. The list above is not complete although it conveys the sense of the style.

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2. What is Leather?

"Leather bars have changed...Time was when a leather bar had water sports, public sex, significant areas for bondage and whipping, and back rooms that started at the coat check area. And most guys checked a lot more than their coats!"

http://www.leatherarchives.org/collections/oral/larry.htm

 

Larry Townsend published "The Leatherman's Handbook" in 1971...

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I will gladly provide a list of links and articles that have led to my knowledge for anyone else who wants to read them.

I'd like to read it.  If it's not appropriate for a post, could you email it to me?

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
The following quotes and links

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ORIGINAL: LadyLolly

NO, the issue I have is with not only discounting, but rudely attacking those that offer information and opinions based on thier own experience and knowledge because you, and those like you, have somehow in a few short years amassed the sum knowledge of the universe. It's a punk mentality and when and if you grow up you  may come to recognize it for what it is also.  Glory in being ill mannered and rude, pups tend to thinks thats cool but only because they haven't learned better social skills.

Obviously the knowledge in your case did not come from reading comprehension as I stated 15 years freestyle D/s before the 90's - you weren't even a gleam in daddy's eye at that time. 

Frankly I'm glad that there is digging, research, and sharing on the forum.  We never stop learning as long as we have an open mind.    What I take issue with is the vicious attempts to demean and shut up others with contributions from thier own experiences - whether you personally happen to agree with what is offered or not, whether you personally happen to be able to find it written somewhere or not.  Not all knowledge is captured in typeface. You may be a legend in your own mind, but you certainly are not what you claim I and others are attempting to present ourselves as,  the definative authority on everything.

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ORIGINAL: ThundersCry

It was always my understanding that there were 3 types of collars that were *used* in the Old Guard...ways and days.

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ThundersCry is correct.  Traditionally 3 levels of collars were utilized.

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
LadyLolly,

Your post is horsehit too.  Which authors exactly support your view? 

I would be willing to accept a lineage of trainers or educators.  One of Lady Lolly's positions is that not everything known is written down.  Fair enough.  I'm a magician (the "fake" kind -- yet another reason I'm not weal) and I've been taught things that to my knowledge have never been written down.  But I know who taught them to me, and I know who they thought originated them.

Besides, with something like stage or birthday party magic, there's a reason to have secrets.  If using collars CORRECTLY is so all-fired important, what's the big secret?  Refute the authors in SM and MR's posts.  There are plenty of books in the world that are full of BS.  Lady Lolly, who taught you these things?  Who were their instructors?  Names, dates, lineage of information.

I don't own any leather anything, and I'm dating a raw foodie so I'm not likely to buy anything leather soon.  I've never bothered to look at "leather history" before.  But in the last few months, it sure seems as though there's a lot of fiction masquerading as historical fact, and I'm ready to develop an informed opinion.  As of right now, DesFIP, SimplyMichael and MadRabbit sure seem to be standing on earth, and everyone else is on a house of cards.  Please demonstrate why I am wrong in this assessment.

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ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

I take a consideration collar as being equivalent to a little boy screaming " I have dibs on her...nobody else can touch her" because they can't stand any competition. Take her off the market before she realizes that he isn't what her 1st impression was.

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ORIGINAL: greyangelus

I've been having a change of percerption about 'consideration collar's recently.