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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:40:55 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

While I never condone the over the top actions of another officer. Do not let this become a cop bashing thread. Not all cops on the beat act out or are overly aggresive. Please try to remember that.


"To serve and protect " is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard...The police are one of the most self serving organizations that I can think of.

It would be something if it was just a given that cops would "police" their own...That they took such pride in their work and would do whatever they could to stop a fellow employee from tarnishing their organization. Instead they have a union that protects bad cops...And very few cops are willing to criticize or come forward to rid thier organization of the "shitheads."

Here is another one of Chicago's finest in action...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23076203/

Driving at speeds estimated at 60 mph on the wrong side of a residential street...Killing two and injuring one...No breathalizer administered. It's must be nice to be above the law.....Fucking Cops...I'll take my chances with the criminals.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:44:17 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

You do not know the reasons behind what they were doing


There can be no valid reason for what I saw on that video.  Seven police officers stripping a bound woman naked has no justification.  Period.  End of sentence.  End of discussion.

It is not necessary to degrade a woman in order to restrain her in such fashion as to mitigate any potential threat to herself, the public, or the police officers holding her in custody. 

It is not necessary for male police officers to forcibly remove a woman's clothing, and to lay hands upon her once naked.

It is not necessary for a person detained--whether for good cause or no--to have their dignity and humanity attacked in so blatant a fashion.



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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:45:57 AM   
scifi1133


Posts: 8529
Joined: 3/27/2007
From: virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

While I never condone the over the top actions of another officer. Do not let this become a cop bashing thread. Not all cops on the beat act out or are overly aggresive. Please try to remember that.


"To serve and protect " is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard...The police are one of the most self serving organizations that I can think of.

It would be something if it was just a given that cops would "police" their own...That they took such pride in their work and would do whatever they could to stop a fellow employee from tarnishing their organization. Instead they have a union that protects bad cops...And very few cops are willing to criticize or come forward to rid thier organization of the "shitheads."

Here is another one of Chicago's finest in action...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23076203/

Driving at speeds estimated at 60 mph on the wrong side of a residential street...Killing two and injuring one...No breathalizer administered. It's must be nice to be above the law.....Fucking Cops...I'll take my chances with the criminals.

Not a problem. The person on your avatar found out how well that worked.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:46:38 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


Better 'police community relations': great idea. I don't deny scifi's points: I'm pushing for an answer on my question "how do we prevent this sort of thing". No controversy? I think it's us who decide whether there is a controversy or not. And in this case, there obviously is: three pages later, I am convinced of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL Alumbrado

And speaking of which, how many hours have you logged in helping my friends over at policeabuse.org, after the multiple times I've posted their link?


I'd be more than happy to assist, should you need any help. I'm a terribly fast typist.


My comment was in regards to the situation  if  the current level of mistrust between police and citizens were to improve.

Should that change, it would not change the media's need to create conflict in order to maximize profits, so they would start running stories about how the police were too nice to potential criminals, or how a rape victim who fought off her rapist was a vigilante....

Part of the solution to the 'fear of the police' issue is to hold police who break the law fully accountable, with additional charges for abuse under color of authority. 
Another part, would be the same advice I would give someone who claimed they were afraid of black people, or afraid of Muslims... get to know more about them, which is another way of phrasing Sci's suggestions.
Included in that would be educating the public so they can tell the difference between police abuse, and media hype.

And that is where Diop and his folks come in... they aren't 'journalists' so they show good police behavior as well as bad on their website...and they don't need typists, they need you to strap on a few cameras and go into your local police station and ask for a copy of their use of force policy.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:51:31 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

The male officers present and aiding in the removal of this woman's clothes is in question, the Sheriff stated that they acted in accordance with that state's regulations concerning 'inmates'. So that suggests that she had clearly committed some kind of offence to warrant the change in her status from that of victim. That does NOT excuse her being manhandled, but it begs the questions: If it is considered brutal and in direct conflict with the regulations concerning the handling of female inmates by male police officers, why is the Sheriff supporting this behaviour, CL?


Pure self interest.  These officers acted on his watch.  As their head, he bears ultimate responsibility--morally and legally--for their transgressions.  If he admits misconduct, he exposes his department to massive litigation and scrutiny. 

Moreover, if in fact such treatment of prisoners is sanctioned by governing regulations--the regulations are wrong and need to be discarded forthwith.

Merely following orders does not make it right.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:54:20 AM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline 		that was horrible, i couldnt watch the whole thing. but its tru, it happens. it happened to me
while i was 8months pregnant and needed help.

here is a short video (1:30) from my homeotwn. i know most of these officers
and can tell you they totally deserved this, and more...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=T9i29nHmfn4&feature=PlayList&p=01B4B3E1EDDD9C53&index=3

as you can hear, they got there before the deparment that was originally called (sherwood rd is wayyyyyy out there)
and way above and beyond




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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:57:00 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Thank God for the second amendment.
I'd prefer not to involve the police at all.
But then I'm lucky, I'm not too far from the ocean and there's some swamps in the area with big allegators in them.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 9:57:39 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

meh. Cops are like any other group of people... the majority arent bad, but the ones that get the press are the ones that make the rest look bad.

Just my .05

GreedyTop:
When the majority of "good cops" turn a blind eye to the criminal behavior of "bad cops" they become accomplices and just as guilty.
The penalties for assaulting or murdering a cop are greater than to an ordinary citizen...consequently the penalties for criminal cops should be proportionally increased.
thompson





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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:02:03 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		~FR~

Granted what was in the video is disturbing and as it was pointed out by several posters that we do not know the entire story to the situation. Yet what I find is the most disturbing is the apparent lack of looking at all angles before passing condemnation on the all law enforcement, especially since we citizens are the one who pay them to uphold laws to make our lives safe and secure. Don't forget that there are bad apples in all segments of society, in the armed forces, teachers, the working class, blue collar workers, pink collar workers etc. If a member of our armed forces commits crimes against humanity we don't condemn the armed forces, or if a teacher molests a student we don't condemn the entire teaching profession. Yet in this case law enforcement is being tried and condemned instead if the individual offender, damn well doesn't makes sense and almost sounds like vigilantism to me.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:05:23 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Yet what I find is the most disturbing is the apparent lack of looking at all angles before passing condemnation on the all law enforcement, especially since we citizens are the one who pay them to uphold laws to make our lives safe and secure.


This citizen wants his money back.  The police do not make my life either safe or secure.


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:07:15 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Not surprising, since that isn't in their job description... hire a security company for that.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:09:08 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

and they don't need typists, they need you to strap on a few cameras and go into your local police station and ask for a copy of their use of force policy.



Will it jeopardize my green card application?

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:10:33 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

meh. Cops are like any other group of people... the majority arent bad, but the ones that get the press are the ones that make the rest look bad.

Just my .05

GreedyTop:
When the majority of "good cops" turn a blind eye to the criminal behavior of "bad cops" they become accomplices and just as guilty.
The penalties for assaulting or murdering a cop are greater than to an ordinary citizen...consequently the penalties for criminal cops should be proportionally increased.
thompson



I agree wholeheartedly...I think when someone has made the decision to "serve" the public good that they have elevated their responsibility towards acheiving that goal. I see nothing wrong with increasing the jail sentences for cops and politicians...etc who break the law. Especially if the crimes that they are accused of are in direct opposition or cause harm to those that they have sworn themselves to protect.

They need to be held to a higher standard.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:11:33 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Will it jeopardize my green card application?


Only one way to find out...

Seriously, spend some time on their site, reading Diop's background and looking at the different way officers interact with the public when they don't know they are on tape...you will see people acting the way people act...and it takes some doing to get some police to act better than people.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 2/12/2008 10:12:03 AM >

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:13:11 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Yet what I find is the most disturbing is the apparent lack of looking at all angles before passing condemnation on the all law enforcement, especially since we citizens are the one who pay them to uphold laws to make our lives safe and secure.


This citizen wants his money back.  The police do not make my life either safe or secure.



Granted, though I fail to see how passing judgement on the entire law enforcement is going to solve the problems of the few who do abuse their positions in power.


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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:18:19 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

If a member of our armed forces commits crimes against humanity we don't condemn the armed forces, or if a teacher molests a student we don't condemn the entire teaching profession.


Wrt to the armed forces, I disagree.  When soldiers cross the line all who wear the uniform feel some heat.  Moreover, there is a necessary distinction between actions taken in the chaos of a battlefield and the relative structure of a prison.  Haditha has room for mitigating arguments in defense of the accused Marines.  Abu Ghraib has none.  Guantanamo has none.

More broadly, when soldiers and teachers cross the line, their respective institutions have a much better track record at punishing the offenders. 


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:18:36 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Will it jeopardize my green card application?


Only one way to find out...



Risky then, aye  ?

quote:



Seriously, spend some time on their site, reading Diop's background and looking at the different way officers interact with the public when they don't know they are on tape...you will see people acting the way people act...and it takes some doing to get some police to act better than people.



Yes, cops are people. Yes, people tend to abuse others when they're in a position of power (countless psychological experiments have shown this).

Not wanting to offend any of the police people on this thread, I ask: what kind of individuals are attracted to the police force, and why?

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:28:08 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Yet what I find is the most disturbing is the apparent lack of looking at all angles before passing condemnation on the all law enforcement, especially since we citizens are the one who pay them to uphold laws to make our lives safe and secure.


This citizen wants his money back.  The police do not make my life either safe or secure.




Granted, though I fail to see how passing judgement on the entire law enforcement is going to solve the problems of the few who do abuse their positions in power.




Police Abuse poll

I'm not so sanguine about the problem being "the few".  The poll results on the policeabuse.org website are not scientific and at best anecdotal evidence, but the results do point to at least a perception of less than approriate conduct by police more often than many realize.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:28:23 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

Not wanting to offend any of the police people on this thread, I ask: what kind of individuals are attracted to the police force, and why?


All kinds...idealists, over compensators, mentally ill, smart, not so smart, etc.

Once on the job they break down into meat eaters and grass eaters... those who actively take to the abuse of power, and those who pasively accept it as a perk.  There are also those who see it as a neccessary evil component of the work environment, just like all orgainzations, and then there are those who try to upset the apple cart and expose corruption and misconduct from within.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:32:37 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Yet what I find is the most disturbing is the apparent lack of looking at all angles before passing condemnation on the all law enforcement, especially since we citizens are the one who pay them to uphold laws to make our lives safe and secure.


This citizen wants his money back.  The police do not make my life either safe or secure.




Granted, though I fail to see how passing judgement on the entire law enforcement is going to solve the problems of the few who do abuse their positions in power.




Police Abuse poll

I'm not so sanguine about the problem being "the few".  The poll results on the policeabuse.org website are not scientific and at best anecdotal evidence, but the results do point to at least a perception of less than approriate conduct by police more often than many realize.



The many videos on that site are not 'polls', nor anecdotal. They are evidence of a real problem created by many factors, not the least of which is your 'Us vs. Them' mentality being reflected back at the public by the recipients.
Read the Arizona study.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 80
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