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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:25:32 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
So I guess that vigilantism is the way to go from now on?


What's the difference, your own versus the state's?

These guys aren't cops, they are tax collectors. Everything they arrest you for must be paid for in some way.

Anyway, the police have never done a thing for me. And an armed society might indeed be a polite one too. What we've done instead is to trade one kind of madness for one of another kind: a police tyranny.

It's ridiculous!


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:29:06 PM   
MistressOfGa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

CL, you, nor I, are privy to the events prior to the clip showing that woman on the ground being stripped. We have no idea what went on, what led to it and b/c it seems brutal, doesn't necessarily mean it was. People tend not to behave compliantly when they feel an injustice has occurred, or they're tanked up on alcohol. When someone has been in an altercation with another, their adrenalin is pumping and more often than not, aren't thinking coherently, but behaving according to their high emotional status at that time. I'm not for a moment suggesting that the police officers behaved correctly, nor am I stating they haven't. I can formulate, however, that we are not subject to all of the details of what took place and until we are, we're basing our assumptions on scant/biased accounts supported with video evidence which has large parts of it missing.


This is my point exactly. We were not privy to the "rest of the story" with regards to Rodney King. All WE saw was police brutality. We did not know what prompted the whole incident. However, we were shown the entire video after the verdict, but not before the riots started.
I will wait til I see the FINAL video before I start ragging on Police forces all over the United States.
 
For what it is worth. I had something very similar happen to me when I called the police in Indpls. I won't go into detail, but if there had been a camera there to support my claim, there would have been at least one cop fired that day.
 
SciFi, keep up the good work you do. It is really a thankless job, but I've a feeling you are one of the good guys.
 
MoGa

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:32:14 PM   
instynctive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Fuck the police!


Ironically, I didn't start enjoying the group Body Count until I was a cop...

"Fuckfuck... I said fuck da police!"


quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I followed a link from earlier in the thread to another forum. Some genius there asserts that keeping someone else's ID as a memento is absurd and would only be done for a criminal purpose. Well, I did keep one of exs ID as a memento for a long time in my wallet. I might even still have it some where. It was a great picture of her.


That's not stalkerish behavior at all.  Must have been tough masturbating to a little 1"x1" photo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

It's that mentality of immediate suspicion that annoys - the police look for suspects to arrest.

ANY SUSPECT will do! ANY REASON will do!


Hrmmm... seems to me that's part of their job description.. I could be wrong though.

And sadly most of the time, yes "any suspect" will do for "any reason".  It's not like a criminal will go murder, steal, rape then raise his hand and say "yup, it was me!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Here are the fucking pigs in my town, hard at work manufacturing evidence via a speed trap, and almost surely providing false testimony on those tickets too:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jtography/sets/72157603740735597/

I saw them that very day myself. I was not speeding so it didn't matter to me, but I was angry at what I saw. Not only because they were taxing the poor working class but because my town does have real crime that these assholes could be pursuing instead.


So if you have a problem with your local police department, go to the town office and file a complaint.


quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

So I guess that vigilantism is the way to go from now on?


It would be, but I left my tights and cape at your house.. ;-)

Seriously.. ask Reggie Denny what he thinks about vigilantism.


Anyways.. time to chop wood.

Have fun bitching about the cops. 

BAHHHHH!


Edited to add:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

What's the difference, your own versus the state's?


The state is held "more accountable" and has age-old standard in place for the escalation of force to prevent innocent people from getting injured or killed. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Anyway, the police have never done a thing for me. And an armed society might indeed be a polite one too. What we've done instead is to trade one kind of madness for one of another kind: a police tyranny.

It's ridiculous!


Yeah.. such tyrannical officers came to our house when the druggie a block away was trying to break down our door.  Such repression when I got pulled over in a 45 doing 55 and the cop WROTE ME A TICKET!!!  OH NO!!!  And my constitutional rights were stomped all over when I had a problem and the cops went above and beyond to help me get to where I needed to go and kept checking to make sure I was okay.



< Message edited by instynctive -- 2/12/2008 12:39:18 PM >


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:33:11 PM   
MistressOfGa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

and they don't need typists, they need you to strap on a few cameras and go into your local police station and ask for a copy of their use of force policy.



Will it jeopardize my green card application?

After all the bitching you have done on this thread regarding the police in the US, are you sure you want to live here? Maybe this country might be a little to violent for you? Something to think about, yes?



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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:34:34 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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Do I understand correctly, the police were correct to bash Rodney King's brains in?

They're not just supposed to restrain and arrest him, they are supposed to give him brain damage?



Edit: soem random site gave me this, which is what I approx. recall also: "When the police officers stopped they delivered 56 baton blows and 6 kicks to King. Making 11 skull fractures, brain damage, and kidney damage."

Wiki says:
Rodney Glen King (born April 2, 1965 in Sacramento, California) is an African-American taxicab driver who, in 1991 was stopped by Los Angeles Police Department officers (Laurence Powell, Timothy Wind, Theodore Briseno and Sergeant Stacey Koon) after being chased for speeding. A bystander, George Holliday, videotaped much of the event. Part of the video was broadcast around the world and shows four LA police officers restraining and repeatedly striking a black man, while four to six other officers stand by. There is no part of the tape that shows Mr. King attacking the officers.


< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 2/12/2008 12:43:13 PM >

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:38:00 PM   
instynctive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Do I understand correctly, the police were correct to bash Rodney King's brains in?

They're not just supposed to restrain and arrest him, they are supposed to give him brain damage?






Hrmmm.. Reggie Denny...

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:39:15 PM   
beargonewild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
So I guess that vigilantism is the way to go from now on?


What's the difference, your own versus the state's?

These guys aren't cops, they are tax collectors. Everything they arrest you for must be paid for in some way.

Anyway, the police have never done a thing for me. And an armed society might indeed be a polite one too. What we've done instead is to trade one kind of madness for one of another kind: a police tyranny.

It's ridiculous!




I really don't see a difference between law enforcement in Canada and in the States. What I see is both are doing the same job of enforcing laws which the we the citizens need them to do so we have a realtively safe society to live in. I am willing to admit that canadian police are prone to corruption just like any other law enforcement agency in any other country. One good example of this took place in Lucan Ontario, February 1880. Another is an officer in the Sudbury detachment was charged and convicted of stalking, harassment of his ex girlfriend. Right now there is a public outcry from the public over the fact that when a police officer is suspended from duty, he still draws a paycheck, even if he is guilty of a crime. One just has to check the Fifth Estate website to read their story regarding this. (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080208/WFIVE_money_nothing_080209/20080209?hub=WFive)

The point being is yes we have corrupt police. What has to be kept in the forefront is the fact of the thousnads of police who lay their lives so we can walk the streets at night, or we can run to the local store at 2 am and not worry so much about being mugged or raped. True the system is far from perfect yet all we can do is try to make small improvements to weed out the bad. So until we have a perfect systrem, we have to work with what we have now and improve on that.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 2/12/2008 12:51:50 PM >


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:43:00 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

and they don't need typists, they need you to strap on a few cameras and go into your local police station and ask for a copy of their use of force policy.



Will it jeopardize my green card application?

After all the bitching you have done on this thread regarding the police in the US, are you sure you want to live here? Maybe this country might be a little to violent for you? Something to think about, yes?




What bitching? I raised concerns, along with a few others, by the looks of things. Do I have a different status in the arena of free speech because I'm not American? Will you suggest to the other people who 'bitched' that they leave this country too?

I didn't think so either  .

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 1:00:24 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Do I understand correctly, the police were correct to bash Rodney King's brains in?

They're not just supposed to restrain and arrest him, they are supposed to give him brain damage?



Edit: soem random site gave me this, which is what I approx. recall also: "When the police officers stopped they delivered 56 baton blows and 6 kicks to King. Making 11 skull fractures, brain damage, and kidney damage."

Wiki says:
Rodney Glen King (born April 2, 1965 in Sacramento, California) is an African-American taxicab driver who, in 1991 was stopped by Los Angeles Police Department officers (Laurence Powell, Timothy Wind, Theodore Briseno and Sergeant Stacey Koon) after being chased for speeding. A bystander, George Holliday, videotaped much of the event. Part of the video was broadcast around the world and shows four LA police officers restraining and repeatedly striking a black man, while four to six other officers stand by. There is no part of the tape that shows Mr. King attacking the officers.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Zp6ILYvzb4

No they were not correct. BUT, King was hyped up on PCP that gave him the strength of 10 men, and HE started swinging first, actually injuring a few cops before they could actually take him down. What the public saw was the latter half of the video. You will notice that the film doesn't start until King is on the ground. How and when did he get on the ground to begin with? Even in the this video you can see after all the whipping this guy is taking, he STILL is trying to get up on his feet. Any normal person would have been down for the count after the first hit to the head.
 
I am NOT condoning this at all. I was just as outraged as the rest of the country when I saw it. I am using King as an example, of not rushing to judgment over a few moments of video tape. It never really shows the entire story, the public is left to speculate the rest.
 
MoGa
 
Typed by: sister

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 1:02:08 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
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quote:

What bitching? I raised concerns, along with a few others, by the looks of things. Do I have a different status in the arena of free speech because I'm not American? Will you suggest to the other people who 'bitched' that they leave this country too?

I didn't think so either  .


lol I did not suggest you leave this country. I suggested that you might think harder about wanting to live in a country that is so full of police corruption and violence. <Shrugs> Live where you want to lol I don't care.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:26:10 PM   
Owner59


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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
No one can say exactly what happened off camera.This will get hashed out in court, though and the jury will get all the facts and decide.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The next step this downward spiral...... Our right to sue and seek damages in a court of law,will be restricted or eliminated all together.

The republicans call it "tort reform".That`s a fancy word for ~~ you`re completely fucked~~.

If you`re injured by a Dr.,product,cop/LEO or government agent,you won`t be able to do anything about it.

The gov./cops, will then have no reason to restrain themselves.They will quickly learn that they can co whatever the fuck they want,and no ones going to stop them.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1025-14.htm

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050307/zegart

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:28:20 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive
That's not stalkerish behavior at all.  Must have been tough masturbating to a little 1"x1" photo.


Have you ever seen an ID? It's a tiny photo of a face. And when I carried it in my wallet she was my gf at the time. You have a strange, suspicious imagination. But I can see it's pointless to attempt a civilized conversation with one such as you.



I still say: Fuck the police! And if you're a cop, I guess you know where that leaves you. Not a problem for me.

Enjoy the donuts and coffee.



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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:41:18 PM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
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"One such as me"?

Because I was a cop at one point?  Or because your attitude towards the police no better than a racist's attitude towards minorities?   In fack, if you'd started saying "Fuck the [insert minority here]", this thread would have been shut down and you'd have received a warning.  On any of the boards I run, you'd be banned. 

"Strange, suspicious imagination"?

Yeah.. I think carrying someone's ID around with you is odd behavior.  Yes, I'll carry my SO's ID with me if she doesn't have pockets, and yes, I'll occasionally forget it's in my wallet and leave the house with it.  Just because I don't carry it around with me doesn't mean I love her any less.

So please forgive me if I think carrying around someone's ID is a little odd.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go stuff some of my SO's dryer lint in my shorts.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:56:08 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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I don't think you make the police look any better with this BS you have posted. You obviously want to call me out somehow but I think all you are is meaningless words. Is that all you've got?

My attitude toward the police is informed by dozens of personal experiences, those of my acquaintances, and all kinds of information I've gathered from others online. The consensus I see being formed is one of the police doing a terrible job and being abusive of their power at the same time. I don't see the point of the police except as tax collectors and I don't really want them doing that either.

I have insider information that tells me many of the local police are involved in criminal behavior both on and off the job. That to my mind is twice as bad as the average criminal because the police are supposed to uphold the law, not violate it themselves. I have seen police people lie under oath numerous times. The police are out of control thugs and power-trippers.

So you'll forgive me when I say "Fuck the police!" It's no different than when I say "Fuck Bush!" You can colour it any way you like.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:56:32 PM   
ModeratorEleven


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Ok you two, rent a room please.

XI



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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:57:02 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Again, if you want personal servants  kissing your ass or bodyguards protecting it, cough up the money and pay for them like anyone else, instead of trying to spin your free rider status into some sort of bid for special privileges.


Care to show us where in the US Constitution it says anything about the police 'protecting and serving' individuals?


Free rider status my ass.  My tax dollars pay their salaries.  That means they work for me.

And the part of the Constitution you're looking for is this part:

quote:


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Backed up by this part
quote:


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The government is at the will of the people--not the states, not the municipality, not the body politic, but the people--that great seething mass of individuals that is the core of every nation on this Earth.



Nice try, but totally dodging the question...
More to the point, the word 'police' appears nowhere in the Constitution, which is why they fall under the 10th amendment, and only sophomoric logic supports the connections you assert to the other wording you cite.

'We the People' does not translate to 'The nanny state owes me',  (It would have been more effective though, if you had some patriotic music playing in the background and a fan blowing your hair while you recited it through a little reverb ). 

Nobody owes you a personal bodyguard, or the kow-towing personal servant you demanded (least of all the rest of the taxpayers), any more than they owe you the 'right' to fly 'your' Space Shuttle whenever you feel like it..
The US Supreme court didn't fall for that argument, and neither should anyone else.

The 'protect and serve' notion is from TV and movies, and while it makes a fine sounding motto on the side of a car, it is a fiction.
Police work is a paid profession, with a lot of authority granted, and a lot of opportunities to get it wrong.  It also has higher penalties on the books as a result. 
Given the nearly 700,000 police working among 300 million people every day, the number of instances where they get it right is significant... if you care to look.  And the number of cases where they get it wrong can be reduced...rationally, not polemically.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:58:39 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven

Ok you two, rent a room please.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 2:59:37 PM   
instynctive


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Whatever.

Enjoy your angst.


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 3:18:13 PM   
subtee


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~huge breath~ I've been wrestling with myself all day about whether or not to post. (It's rather pointless wrestling, as I'm pretty evenly matched...)

Anyway, I'll not state my postition except to say that the tape was disgusting, heart-wrenching--I couldn't watch it all. I remember Rodney King and we cannot forget the seeds that were planted that evening and ultimately sowed more injustice, more blood, more pain, less understanding.

~Another breath~ Further, my ex husband ("the creature") is a trial lawyer. He does much criminal defense work. He is not held in high regard by the law enforcement of the town in which he lives. When I lived there as his wife, on more than one occassion I was followed and harrassed by some of those who should instead have been there to "protect and serve."

Open your mind. ~breath~ A man that I admire very much sent this to me. He is a police officer. Just, open your mind. Please.

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D., author of “On Killing.” Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett- in a lecture to the United States Navel Academy, November 24, 1997.

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said to me: “Most people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic staggering number, perhaps an all time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less that one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey. But someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grown into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

“Then there are wolves,” the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.” Do you believe there are wolves out there that will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capably of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

“Then there are the sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I am a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.” If you have no capacity for violence, then you are a healthy, productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking a hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

Let me expand on this old soldier’s excellent model of the sheep, wolf, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial. That is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits through their kid’s schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog that intentionally harms the lowest, little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog. The student, the victims, at Columbine High School were big tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack; however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001, when the wolf pounded hard at the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also, understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdog yearns for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is now the sheep and the sheepdog thinks differently. The sheep pretended the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most of the citizens in America said, “Thank God I wasn’t on one of those planes.” The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, “Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference.” When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to make a difference.

Agasin, there is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior. But he does have one real advantage. He is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious predatory crimes of violence: Assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said thet specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be. And I’m proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, “lets roll,” which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers- athletes, business people and parents- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men- Edmund Burke.

Here is the point I’d like to emphasize: especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way and so are the wolves. They didn’t have a choice, but you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, that is okay, but understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have any rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior’s path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many police officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside the belt holsters tucked in the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form or religious service, there is a good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas and, during the break; one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, “I will never be caught without my gun in church.” I asked why he felt so strongly about this and he told be about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas, in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy’s body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?”

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for “head to roll” if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguishers and fire sprinklers in their kids school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and distain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, “Do you have an idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved one is attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared that day?”

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at the moment of truth when you are not physically prepared. You didn’t bring your gun and you didn’t train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear, helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post 9-11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: “…denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn’t so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling.”

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level. And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.

If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be “on” 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you take a walk outside without it, just take a deep breath and say to yourself…”Baa.”

This business, often being a sheep or a sheepdog, is not a yes-no dichotomy. Its is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degrees to which you move up that continuum, away from sheep hood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

Thanks for reading,

Tee



_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to instynctive)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 3:53:58 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
That's far too facile. Comparing us to animals, adults to children - puhleaze!

A few times some assholes have attempted to mug me - unsuccessfully, I might add. Where were the cops? Where were they for Columbine? Picking up the pieces is all - the job of a janitor really.

This "sheep" needs no protector just as I don't need a multitude of officers to harass me and eat out my substance - which is just another kind of mugging but against which I have no real defense. If they say you did it in court, it's pretty much taken as truth, pay the fine.

What I see is cops handing out tickets, not preventing meaningful crime. The recovery rate for things stolen is abysmally poor. And what of the war on drugs? Are the drugs available? 'Nuff said. Not a big success, not that I agree with the "war on whatever" anyway...

Does your town have prostitutes? Gangs? Muggings of the young and old? Are these problems resolved or ongoing?

Is there anything for which having the police is a benefit? I truly see very little. Not enough for their numbers nor for what I see as their true purpose. I mean, we do actually have officers that are only "meter maids" - and that's what they do, ticket you for taking up space on roads you already own because they belong to everyone. Apparently you have only renter's rights on the rights of way.



< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 2/12/2008 3:55:18 PM >

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 120
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