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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:34:45 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
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Status: offline 		And perceptions are easily mislead also.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:36:11 AM   
domiguy


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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Not wanting to offend any of the police people on this thread, I ask: what kind of individuals are attracted to the police force, and why?


All kinds...idealists, over compensators, mentally ill, smart, not so smart, etc.

Once on the job they break down into meat eaters and grass eaters... those who actively take to the abuse of power, and those who pasively accept it as a perk.  There are also those who see it as a neccessary evil component of the work environment, just like all orgainzations, and then there are those who try to upset the apple cart and expose corruption and misconduct from within.



In reality..How many try to upset the apple cart and expose the corruption? It wouldn't seem like they would be employed too long....In Chicago they have a name for cops who attempt to expose the corruption of their fellow officers, I believe they are called private detectives or cab drivers.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:45:12 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		And what do they call priests, teachers, soldiers, nurses, or any member of any organization who blows the whistle?  Oh, yeah, 'disgruntled former employees'. No different in the police organizations. 

If anyone chooses to stay employed by an organization, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of it being because they have made the choice to turn a blind eye to something that goes on where they work.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 2/12/2008 10:51:27 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 10:50:43 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		As a former fed (USCG) we enforced different laws than the locals.
Mostly drug and alien smuggling and safety and pollution laws aboard vessels.
Also we were the Fire Dept and Med/Rescue service afloat so people generally liked us. Except for drunken boaters that we arrested.
After that I couldn't be a "local."
After busting drug smugglers with tons of pot it would be a "demotion" to be a local and have to answer a domestic in a trailer park. Yuck, I'd tell them to keep fighting.
We in the USCG were always instructed to be polite to the public.
We didn't have that "us against them" philosophy that seems to be so prevalent in many local depts.
With locals you don't really have uniformity from one department to another.
Two neighboring depts can be run totally differently.They can have totally different policies and operating procedures.
That's one thing I noticed in Ireland, they have the "Garda", it's a "national" police force that's uniform throughout the country. And they don't station their officers close to their home towns. If you're from Dublin say, you could be stationed in Galway or Donegal.
I think in situations like this maybe the officers don't "listen" enough to the victims.
Maybe too quick to make an arrest.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:00:04 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

And perceptions are easily mislead also.


True.  And if a police officer wants me to have a different perception of him, let him begin by practicing lots of "yes sirs" and "no sirs" in my presence.  They are civil servants.  Let them act as such.


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:06:24 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Again, if you want personal servants  kissing your ass or bodyguards protecting it, cough up the money and pay for them like anyone else, instead of trying to spin your free rider status into some sort of bid for special privileges.

. 
Care to show us where in the US Constitution it says anything about the police 'protecting and serving' individuals?
Because the USSC sure couldn't find it. 

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 2/12/2008 11:14:42 AM >

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:10:23 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And what do they call priests, teachers, soldiers, nurses, or any member of any organization who blows the whistle?  Oh, yeah, 'disgruntled former employees'. No different in the police organizations. 

If anyone chooses to stay employed by an organization, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of it being because they have made the choice to turn a blind eye to something that goes on where they work.


Yes and no...Do you think a nurse would stay silent if she saw a fellow nurse intentionally harm a patient? Or if a nurse was even routinely causing harm out of negligence this would not be allowed to stand. Malpractice becomes a bit of another subject...It depends on the case and the degree of negligence.

Teachers...Not many would stand by and watch a fellow teacher harm their students.

Leaves us with priests and soldiers...We already know the answer...They will do nothing.


< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/12/2008 11:11:44 AM >

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:13:25 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		That's a fantasy...whistleblowers in any organization are treated as a threat.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:15:19 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Teachers...Not many would stand by and watch a fellow teacher harm their students.



perhaps not through physical harm ... but everyday teachers who are incompetant walk into classrooms and systematically harm their pupils by not teaching them anything.

and trust me, nothing happens to them ... especially in the state sector

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:15:54 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

While I never condone the over the top actions of another officer. Do not let this become a cop bashing thread. Not all cops on the beat act out or are overly aggresive. Please try to remember that.


"To serve and protect " is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard...The police are one of the most self serving organizations that I can think of.

It would be something if it was just a given that cops would "police" their own...That they took such pride in their work and would do whatever they could to stop a fellow employee from tarnishing their organization. Instead they have a union that protects bad cops...And very few cops are willing to criticize or come forward to rid thier organization of the "shitheads."

Here is another one of Chicago's finest in action...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23076203/

Driving at speeds estimated at 60 mph on the wrong side of a residential street...Killing two and injuring one...No breathalizer administered. It's must be nice to be above the law.....Fucking Cops...I'll take my chances with the criminals.

Not a problem. The person on your avatar found out how well that worked.


Who killed Pac? Many blacks don't even bother with calling the cops anymore...The response is lacking and no one gives a damn about black on black crime anyways.


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:18:03 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Again, if you want personal servants  kissing your ass or bodyguards protecting it, cough up the money and pay for them like anyone else, instead of trying to spin your free rider status into some sort of bid for special privileges.

. 
Care to show us where in the US Constitution it says anything about the police 'protecting and serving' individuals?


Free rider status my ass.  My tax dollars pay their salaries.  That means they work for me.

And the part of the Constitution you're looking for is this part:

quote:


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Backed up by this part
quote:


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The government is at the will of the people--not the states, not the municipality, not the body politic, but the people--that great seething mass of individuals that is the core of every nation on this Earth.


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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:18:06 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Teachers...Not many would stand by and watch a fellow teacher harm their students.



perhaps not through physical harm ... but everyday teachers who are incompetant walk into classrooms and systematically harm their pupils by not teaching them anything.

and trust me, nothing happens to them ... especially in the state sector


I agree...There is a difference and we both realize it...A cop could be guilty of the same by sleeping in his car instead of going on patrol....We are addressing something a tad bit more heinous. Agreed?


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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:27:47 AM   
MadRabbit


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Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The government is at the will of the people--not the states, not the municipality, not the body politic, but the people--that great seething mass of individuals that is the core of every nation on this Earth.



Ironically, it's this American belief that has enslaved us.

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RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:29:12 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy




I agree...There is a difference and we both realize it...A cop could be guilty of the same by sleeping in his car instead of going on patrol....We are addressing something a tad bit more heinous. Agreed?



in the grand scheme of things yes ...This case is obviously more serious ...  but think of this .. cop sleeps in car as child is bundled into the back of a truck from a nearby pavement .. terribly, outcry ... public hangings

teacher ignores pupils and doesn't spot signs of abuse/drugs/violent intent ... last week a kid got stabbed in the school across from where I work, the fight had been brewing all day in school, staff had been notified by parents and kids, nothing was done .. class teacher is given information and cannot be bothered to act upon it, situation explodes and child gets stabbed .. Hip Hop music is blamed

last week i took enough cocaine off a kid to feed a family of Ho's for a week, Daddy had hidden it in lil Jimmy's pocket and I noticed lil Jimmy playing with it .. Jimmy had been dipping his finegr in that stuff all day and no other teachers had picked up on him being wired

Not all teaching is ABC and Simon says ...

but yes .. i do agree with you


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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:40:15 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		Yup.. made it two pages before the general idiocy made it further impossible to read.

My two cents.. there are good cops, there are bad cops.  Personally, I don't know any bad cops.  If you don't like or don't trust the police, when Joe Burglar is breaking into your house and stealing your hi-def TV and raping your wife, don't call 911.  If you give a cop an attitude, yeah, he's going to give it right back to you, and I can't say I blame them, since they have to deal with and put up with the scum of the earth every shift, day after day, often without thanks or credit for a job well done. 

Yet, they continue to go back to work, trying to keep the bad guys at bay so John and Jane Public can sleep at night without worrying about Joe Burglar inviting himself in.  Every time they respond to a 911 call or perform a traffic stop, they are putting their lives on the line for $30k a year.  Think about that.  They are putting the safety of the general public *first* and serving their community by doing their best to keep it safe, along with firefighters and EMS.  Those three groups will save your ass when you cannot.  "Public servant" doesn't mean they will do your grocery shopping.  It means they are there to help you when you need it.

Also, don't take too much stock in any video.  I didn't even watch this one, but many times the press will take a video and edit it so things are taken completely out of context.  They only way to truly know what went on is by being there and witnessing it first hand, instead of stories that are spun to create drama and controversy by way of sensationalist reporting.

So love the police, hate the police, I could give a shit, but when an incident like this comes up, everyone seems to forget about the millions of calls cops take every day that there isn't controversy.  It's the same as airlines.. you don't hear about the thousands of flights a day that go smoothly.. just the occasional accident or crash.

My hat's off to every member of public safety who go to work day after day, deal with the constant bullshit and politics from their departments, the public they have sworn to protect and serve and other "morally outraged" people.  Must be why every time a department is doing a raffle or other fundraiser so they can provide ther personnel with needed equipment (defibs, air packs, kevlar vests), I'll happily fork out a few bucks to help them out... because I know if/when I need them, they are less than 5 minutes away.

Bah.. fuck it.  I have lunch to make and wood to split.  Sci.. go tazer someone tonight for me, would ya? :-)


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 11:55:31 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Fuck the police!

I followed a link from earlier in the thread to another forum. Some genius there asserts that keeping someone else's ID as a memento is absurd and would only be done for a criminal purpose. Well, I did keep one of exs ID as a memento for a long time in my wallet. I might even still have it some where. It was a great picture of her.

It's that mentality of immediate suspicion that annoys - the police look for suspects to arrest.

ANY SUSPECT will do! ANY REASON will do!



Here are the fucking pigs in my town, hard at work manufacturing evidence via a speed trap, and almost surely providing false testimony on those tickets too:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jtography/sets/72157603740735597/

I saw them that very day myself. I was not speeding so it didn't matter to me, but I was angry at what I saw. Not only because they were taxing the poor working class but because my town does have real crime that these assholes could be pursuing instead.

But I digress...






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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:03:08 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Fuck the police!



So I guess that vigilantism is the way to go from now on?


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:11:57 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
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quote:

CelticLord, their calmness suggests that it is a procedure that's as familiar as it is well-practised. That, in itself, does not imply a blase attitude, or callousness in action. The clips do seem brutal, but how many times have clips been doctored, omitting invaluable information, that would suggest that not everything we have seen is what the woman, her husband and their lawyer claim is an abuse.


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:15:49 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

Some genius there asserts that keeping someone else's ID as a memento is absurd and would only be done for a criminal purpose. Well, I did keep one of exs ID as a memento for a long time in my wallet. I might even still have it some where. It was a great picture of her.


I keep my mother's and my brothers ID's. Hell, I wasn't even finished using my brother's ID to get death cirtificates and such, when I had to use my mom's to do the same thing. Many people keep their loved one's ID's. Most just don't keep it on them. <shrugs>


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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: This is what you want... - 2/12/2008 12:22:43 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It's not being you're blind to it that it's not happening.



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