RE: Non-consensual play

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RE: Non-consensual play - 10/18/2005 1:36:34 AM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
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Consent is consent.

Would anyone disagree? Please just answer the question without situational context. (i.e. yes or no will suffice, no buts no maybe's no space aliens ate my lunch)

Non-consenual consent.

Does not exist other than as a mutilation of the english language or a negation of the statement it makes.

"No peanut butter peanut butter" - meaning there is no peanut butter.

If it ain't peanut butter, you can eat it if you want but I hope you don't get a sick stomach or worse on it.

D (owner of j)

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RE: Non-consensual play - 10/18/2005 7:20:15 AM

plantlady64

Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

Consent is consent.

Would anyone disagree? Please just answer the question without situational context. (i.e. yes or no will suffice, no buts no maybe's no space aliens ate my lunch)

Non-consenual consent.

Does not exist other than as a mutilation of the english language or a negation of the statement it makes.

"No peanut butter peanut butter" - meaning there is no peanut butter.

If it ain't peanut butter, you can eat it if you want but I hope you don't get a sick stomach or worse on it.

D (owner of j)

Hello There,
As I'd said in my post there are a lot of things I don't like that I consent to for my Master as I trust him. I also said Thank God I've never had to experience any absolutely non-consensual things in BDSM ever. I agree in real terms there is no non-consensual consent. I think the point of the thread is like saying a friend Dom that’s helping you live your fantasy raped you. It's the whole fantasy of something being done to you or you doing something against your will when in reality you're not only willing, but you crave the feeling of being forced. In fantasy it's really hot, but when it is absolutely real it's not hot and can damage your mental, physical & emotional self.
I think that's the reason it's hot. In pretending you had no choice or consent with someone you do trust that isn't really trying to damage you permanently it can free you to experience things you wouldn't have been willing to admit you wanted.
Sincerely,

sub suzanne

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RE: Non-consensual play - 10/18/2005 8:48:11 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

Consent is consent.

Would anyone disagree? Please just answer the question without situational context. (i.e. yes or no will suffice, no buts no maybe's no space aliens ate my lunch)

Non-consenual consent.

Does not exist other than as a mutilation of the english language or a negation of the statement it makes.

"No peanut butter peanut butter" - meaning there is no peanut butter.

You have confused a contradictory statement with a paradoxical statement. Contradictions are categorically false, whereas one kind of paradox seems false but is nonetheless true. The ability to understand and comprehend paradox hinges on ones ability to deal with ambiguity, nuance, and metaphor.

"The set of A includes B and the Set of A does not include B" is a contradiction.

"The more full my life gets, the more empty it is," is a paradox - at first it seems to be a contradiction, but a more nuanced look at the language, and unstated but apparent values expressed makes the comment sensicle. When we talk about "passive-aggressive" behaviour we are not talking nonsense, when Jesus says the one who seeks to lose his life will save it, when a Taoist speaks of doing-by-not-doing, we see (and understand) paradox.

Some of us have a "consent as ongoing" framework - that's great. Others, (as one correspondent wrote to me today) say: "I consented once. Consensual non consent is really a good term." - that's great too. If you don't happen to hold the "consent given once" framework, obstinately insisting on a concrete reading of language that isn't concrete won't make the concept and term go away.

On a lighter sidenote: There is something highly comical about a person at an alternative sexuality site huffing and puffing about the sanctity of the English language - I imagined John Ashcroft and Bill Bennet sagely nodding and despairing over this "mutilation of the english(sic) language."

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RE: Non-consensual play - 10/18/2005 11:14:42 AM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

Consent is consent.

Non-consenual consent.

Does not exist other than as a mutilation of the english language or a negation of the statement it makes.

"No peanut butter peanut butter" - meaning there is no peanut butter.

"The set of A includes B and the Set of A does not include B" is a contradiction.

Ok, it's a contradiction not a mutilation ;-)

I still hold that if you have no peanuts in the peanut butter you can call it peanut butter any way you like, it still does not make it peanut butter, marketing or no.

Whipped cream (the kind you buy in a pressurized can at the corner store/grocery store) - no cream in it - oil product. Looks like whipped cream, tastes pretty good as a child (maybe as an adult too, I don't eat the stuff anymore). But really, after you take away the marketing - it's oil. (btw I went to 2 stores and 1 store had real whipped cream in it, the other product at the other store was the oil (after sugar and water) base one I am referring to here).

Obviously this has hit some sort of pet peeve of mine and I will cease and desist to post on this topic. Y'all have a good time with it (and no I am not being facetious) :-), I need to go untie my panties (this is me poking fun at myself with hopefully an added touch of humor).

D (owner of j)

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Post #: 64