Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
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You had to ask Kitten, and now I had to jump through. Geez Louise, I finally get to page friggin 11 and all the sudden there is a page 12. Who knows what it'll be up to by the time I am done typing this. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.
I said something along the lines of "Just ask", and someone did.
Well, let me preface it with this. Man's inhumanity to Man is not going to stop anytime soon. Human beings are simply not yet in that stage of development. Look at the bickering here, the incessant quoting, the refution of point after point with information that is no more reliable than what was being refuted.
The fact of the matter is that I am no longer interested in every little fact of history. Everybody who has been around this subject for any length of time knows about D6MRD. Do I believe it ? I don't know. But if they only really killed 3 million, and the rest were Polack or who knows, does that really metter ? I have even heard some say the the Jews died at Auschwitz from disease and dysentary, that the supposed gas chambers were delousing stations, and that the ovens were built to burn the bodies because they were so diseased.
Do I believe it ? No, not all of it. I agree that the numbers could be off. Remember the victors write the history. Did the Nazis kill 6 million people ? Probably did. Is it possible that only 3 million of them were Jews, yes that is possible, and we will never know for sure. Real proof simply doesn't exist either way.
Even a holocaust survivor can't count 6 million people. And they have no way to know how many of them were Jews. And you can't tell by skeletal remains so we are up in the air. Do I say it never happened, no, that would be a foolish assumption.
However the writers of history do take a few curves. It is common knowledge in Poland that the Katyn forest massacre was perpetrated by the Russians. But that is not what the history books, EVEN THERE say. My buddy's Grandfather told him. They were Bolshevics. But then the Nazis got blamed.
And human nature being what it is, what about the carpet bombing of Dresden ? Sure, we were liberating those people out of the clutches of those nasty Nazis, who may have taken the country from utter poverty to being a world power in a few short years.
But here's the problem. Even here, and I consider people here to be above average intelligence on the average, but there is bickering and whatever over things that neither side can prove. And more importantly, can't change. When anybody invents a time machine, I'll take one.
So, my view is to figure out what to do NOW to change the future. You can't change the past. As they say "mistakes were made". And we (in the US) have no moral ground on which to stand after the things our government has done. Going back to the Native Americans, putting a bounty on buffalo to leave their food supplly rotting out in the desert, after they treated the settlers like welcome guests. That is attempted genocide. Selling them blankets known to be infected with disease, moving them out time and time again from their living space, forcing their young to go to English schools. Strangely later it was illegal to teach Blacks how to read and write. Perhaps they learned something.
That's what we need to do. What's done is done. Both sides have gotten nasty. Now how to stop it.Either things are going to stay the same until enough of the world gets sick of it to cause a bunch of trouble or we have two choices.
One is to help Israel achieve it's goal. There is a proposed map of greater Israel, let them have it. In fact help them get it. Go in there and kill all the peoples' who dare inhabit the coveted lands. And that is a pretty big area. But get it done one way or another. Get rid of EACH AND EVERY non-Jew from Israel. Kill anyone who does not accept that. But it will be over. After that we say to them "No more foreign aid, no more nothing, you got it, now just hold on to it". This would fuck our ecomony up really bad. But that is going to happen anyway. Once the dollar is dispensed with, we get on to a new way. It would be isolationist, not by choice, but because the dollar will drop so bad that we won't be able to import paper clips.
Another way is to pull out altogether. That includes pulling aid from all countries, and all military bases. Let them sort it out. Just return all our resources home, because we are going to need them. The downside to this option is that they are eventually going to nuke each other and may pollute the world badly enough that we all die. It is a far way away, but we do share the same atmosphere. The environmental impact would be horrendous.
But the fact of the matter is that we need to find better options. And we are not going to find them in the past, unless we simply out and out support genocide.
But we can't keep it up. The way it appears is that Israel is helping us with getting oil, but we can't trust the government of Israel. Anyone out there who says the sinking of the USS Liberty was an accident needs to do a bit more research. Anyone who thinks Ernst Zundel actually belongs in jail needs more.
All in all, the victors have written the history. What is AIPAC ? Why is it illegal not only to question the holocaust in Germany, even the number 6 million ? You get thrown in prison there for that. What is HR4230 ? Do you know ? HR4230 was a bill in the US congress, a resolution in fact, that the US government should investigate anti-Semitism ALL OVER THE WORLD.
This looks a bit one sided to me. And who are we to make laws for the whole world ?
I'll tell you what, if mentioning AIPAC and the USS Liberty makes me an anti-Semite fine. But I have nothing against them. You know Jews are not the only Semites either. I am not here to offend anyone, but if it happened fine. Just understand that it was not intentional, the truth is the truth. If you dispute the USS Liberty story in the face of the documentary that actually made it on PBS "Loss Of Liberty" then I reserve the right to dispute other facts, or statements.
And someone mentioned the Protocols ? Dispute one factual error in that document. If you've read it you know you can't. But if you have, you know that the ultimate goal is actually peace.
But it is still in the past. We do not know really where it came from. And what is wrong with mentioning the Rothchilds ? What is wrong with mentioning how much the Bolshevics stole from Russia ? Grow a skin.
The suppresion of information is rampant. I do not ignore what Hitler did. I read about half of Mein Kampf. Do I agree ? Dunno. But the fact of the matter is at one point he believed he was doing right. Does Bush ?
That is the problem. We will never know if Bush is demented enough to think that he is doing right. And it doesn't matter.
No sane person would support the invasion of Iran. We simply don't have the money for that. Israel has muscle, let them do it. None of this was any of our business, ever. Even WW2 was not any of our business. "Providing for the common defence" does not include the whole world. It is that simple.
Has anyone around here ever read George Washington's farewell address ?
That is my point. Get in, get the job done after we decide who our friends are and finally GET OUT. All I know is that we cannot keep going the way we are going. Very few would doubt that. So what do we do ?
So we could suport Israel, help them take over the entire region, or we can leave them to their own devices. And don't be fooled, they have devices. Plenty of devices.
Any other choices mean slow death for our economy and our soldiers.
The past is over, the present is now. As the past has determined what is happening now, changes in the present are the only thing that can change the future. Refute that. Do I need links ?
And to Jews on here, I have no problem with you, just mainly the government of Israel. One minor point is that thin skin. I mentioned physiological differences and someone jumped on me. I made no mention of noses or anything of the sort, I was talking about dietary differences and heritage. It became clear that we could not have an intelligent discussion about that subject. That was uncalled for. Other than that, no problem. Those who serve AIPAC are patriots, I would do no less. No problem.
The whole thing is is that we cannot afford to stay mixed up in the middle east dilemma forever. We NEED to get out of it, the question is, just how is the best way to get out of it ? And if people can't discuss it, it ain't likely to happen.
T
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RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear - 
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Yeah.... no denial going on here.
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