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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 8:26:00 AM   
RealityLicks


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Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I wouldn't wish to be characterised as an apologist for someone who uses torture.  I've never visited Cuba and know only one Cuban.  As critical as he is of aspects of life there, the poverty, the lack of opportunity and freedom of ideas, I've never known him to talk about torture - but then his wife translates from Spanish.  Maybe I have misunderstood.

It strikes me as a repressive society and it would be naive to think that there was no violence on the part of the authorities or inhuman treatment, detentions etc there. But deaths in custody figures in Britain are nothing to crow about either. I would be glad to hear about reliable sources where I can find out more.

(in reply to Marc2b)
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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 8:44:46 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

It strikes me as odd that even today, people are trying to drag Castro into the pit with Stalin and Hitler.


Because he deserves to be. What? He didn’t kill as many people as Stalin and Hitler and so that makes him not so bad. It sickens me, absolutely sickens me, to see people praising this murdering, torturing, dictator. Oh, that’s right, he stood up to the U.S. so that makes it okay. What a crock of shit. I try to dampen down my more negative impulses, try to listen to the better angels of my nature but in the case of Castro it’s easy to let go and wish him a long, lingering, painful death followed by a spot in Hell right next to Che Guevara.


Name one American President that hasn't caused more deaths than Castro!

But come on now you have started, what deaths. There were deaths in fighting for and consolidating the revolution but hey, his opposition wasn't exactly Jesus Christ. You just have to look at the regime he over threw to see that they deserved what they got. As for the US riling against Castro, it was their support for a corrupt and oppressive regime that probably spurred on the revolution, just like in Iran.  It is rather laughable that Americans compare Castro to Hitler or Stalin, especially when he and Guevara were created by the oppressive regimes the US supported and gave sustenance to. You rightwing Americans don't seem to have a problem supporting rightwing dictators that grind the faces of the poor into the ground. Actually, that is what the US has been doing to the Cubans for the last 50 years so why should anyone expect anything different.



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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 8:50:44 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It's quite obvious that anti-Cuban sentiment is high in America, way higher than I recall it ever being in Europe. Is it the geographical proximity which has exacerbited it to such an extent? Or could it result from decades of 'commie bashing' and other brainwashing rhetoric?

If we could look at the facts... Cuba's no ideal place, but all in all, there's a lot going for it... brilliant (entirely state-funded!!!) medical care, excellent education (state-funded!!!)... okay, people aren't driving brand new giant SUVs. No, it's not the most democratic country in the world.

Yes, Castro's a little dodgey, but I have a fondness in my heart for the old bastard.

Must have been all these years spent in communist-loving Europe  .

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 8:58:46 AM   
urlittleprincess


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Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		Sir and i were in cuba for a holiday in october...it was beautiful...the people were amazing...but the poverty was overwhelming...

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 8:59:52 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urlittleprincess

Sir and i were in cuba for a holiday in october...it was beautiful...the people were amazing...but the poverty was overwhelming...


Thank the US for that.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 9:06:14 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

I have asked you on several occasions to back up this jingoistic rhetoric but to no avail. Whom has Fidel murdered?


This is pure bullshit. What? You want a picture of him actually pulling the trigger on somebody? The man is a dictator! He is the one giving the orders! He is the one setting the policies that throw people into prison because they won’t toe the party line. Under your "logic" we can excuse Hitler for the millions that died in the holocaust because his hand wasn’t the one that turned the gas valve to the "on" position.

quote:

As for the "better angels of your nature" they have gone on strike until you disabuse yourself of your self imposed ignorance of the facts.
Common' Marc I know you are smart enough to disentangle the lies and propaganda of the government from the facts and reality of life in Cuba.
Now if you would like to talk about murdering assholes lets look at the list of American presidents who presided over the wholesale genocide of the Native American.


The man led (or, to use your words, presided over) a repressive regime that uses imprisonment, torture and executions to suppress opposition – those are the only relevant facts. Your attempt at deflection by bringing up the Native Americans is irrelevant. Pointing out the bad behavior of others does not excuse Castro in anyway.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 9:10:56 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

It strikes me as odd that even today, people are trying to drag Castro into the pit with Stalin and Hitler.


Because he deserves to be. What? He didn’t kill as many people as Stalin and Hitler and so that makes him not so bad. It sickens me, absolutely sickens me, to see people praising this murdering, torturing, dictator. Oh, that’s right, he stood up to the U.S. so that makes it okay. What a crock of shit. I try to dampen down my more negative impulses, try to listen to the better angels of my nature but in the case of Castro it’s easy to let go and wish him a long, lingering, painful death followed by a spot in Hell right next to Che Guevara.


Just look how everyone worships Hugo Chavez today... people think he's a god while he systematically dismantles democracy and freedom in Venezuela. He throws people in jail if they criticize him or the government. The media is owned and operated by the government. And he controls every part of that government. But all that is OK. He gets a pass on all that... why? Because he can stand up to America!

So go on...go hug Fidel. Go kiss Hugo and Amadenijad and Kim Jong Ill too... but just remember these thugs will not hesitate in the least to strip your freedom and throw you in jail for your beliefs if they had the chance. These are not freedom fighters. They are not heros for the working class. They are dictators leading totalitarian regimes.

Wake up!


Can we add to your list,the dictators and tyrants that the US buys,uses and takes advantage of like whores?

Like Mohammad Reza Pahlavi ,the Shaw of Iran

or this guy....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDABe8AOuCQ
and
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/dec/31/iraq.politics

or the Saudis and most of the rest of the middle east countries.

Or is your outrage selective?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/19/2008 9:12:31 AM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 9:11:32 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Pointing out the bad behavior of others does not excuse Castro in anyway.



Perhaps not, but it sure helps to relativise Castro's crimes with those of others. By the way, did you know that Radovan Karadžić and Ratko Mladić were still on the run? Now, they're true baddies.

To compare Castro with Hitler is a self-defeating exercise, in my mind.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 9:13:14 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Just look how everyone worships Hugo Chavez today...


Chavez is nothing more than a Castro wannabe. At least the Venezuelan people are showing some backbone in resisting him, shooting down his attempts at Constitutional "reform."

I was going to bring up Chavez but I figured Thompson and others were busy enough kissing Castros ass. We wouldn’t want them to get neck strain switching back and forth.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 2/19/2008 9:17:52 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 9:32:45 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

I wouldn't wish to be characterised as an apologist for someone who uses torture. I've never visited Cuba and know only one Cuban. As critical as he is of aspects of life there, the poverty, the lack of opportunity and freedom of ideas, I've never known him to talk about torture - but then his wife translates from Spanish. Maybe I have misunderstood.

It strikes me as a repressive society and it would be naive to think that there was no violence on the part of the authorities or inhuman treatment, detentions etc there. But deaths in custody figures in Britain are nothing to crow about either. I would be glad to hear about reliable sources where I can find out more.


Google "human rights violations"+castro, that’ll get you started. As for the death in custody figures in Britain. First, I’d like to reiterate that the bad behavior of others doesn’t excuse Castro (or any dictator for that matter). But since you brought it up the relevant question is – is death in custody the official policy in Britain? In America, when a prisoner dies in custody there is likely to be a hue and cry from the family and maybe even the media. There will be investigations and lawsuits.  Farglebargle will start a thread here on Collarme. In Cuba it is par for the course. People will keep their mouths shut out of fear that they will be the next one to die in custody.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 9:43:14 AM   
Marc2b


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Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

Perhaps not, but it sure helps to relativise Castro's crimes with those of others. By the way, did you know that Radovan Karadžic and Ratko Mladic were still on the run? Now, they're true baddies.

To compare Castro with Hitler is a self-defeating exercise, in my mind.


I don’t think the victims of Castro’s crimes really give a shit. If you were being lined up against a wall to be shot would you say to yourself, "oh well, at least they haven’t murdered as many people as Hitler."? The comparison between Castro and Hitler has nothing to do with how many victims they have but the fact that they have victims.

As for Radovan and Ratko - here's hoping they get what is coming to them.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:03:50 AM   
CuriousLord


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I'm surprised the US never took Cuba, or at least assassinated the guy.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:08:41 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm surprised the US never took Cuba, or at least assassinated the guy.



Are you advocating murder?

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:10:09 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 It wasn`t for lack of trying.That`s what drove him towards the Soviets.

A major foreign policy bungle.

And proof that strong arming and killing isn`t a good foreign policy.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:10:54 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm surprised the US never took Cuba, or at least assassinated the guy.



Are you advocating murder?


Would making the observation that one is surprised a rabid dog didn't kill another be advocating killing dogs?

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:12:00 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		That's what gets me.  I don't know how you could screw up with something like that.  Particularly the US, with so many resources.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:13:16 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Clarify something for me then. Is it common and accepted practice for nation states to go around assassinating the leaders of other nation states? And more precisely, has the USA done it often, since you're surprised it hasn't happened in Castro's case?

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:15:22 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		..you've already forgotten Iraq and the man hunt for Saddam?

They invaded Cuba in the Bay of Pigs.  How does it not strike you that they would've wanted Castro dead?

Also, who cares about what's "accepted"?  I'm talking about reality, not some fantascy ideal world.

PS-  I have to run or I'll miss the oppurtunity to have a lunch.  I'm sure most of your questions can be answered if you just sit back and think about them.  Peace.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 2/19/2008 10:16:17 AM >

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 10:31:09 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

PS-  I have to run or I'll miss the oppurtunity to have a lunch.  I'm sure most of your questions can be answered if you just sit back and think about them.  Peace.



A perfect opportunity for me to have the last word  .



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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/19/2008 11:06:27 AM   
MrrPete


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Fidel has at least 4 children. His oldest son is Fidelito. None of them, at this time, are interested in being dictator of Cuba.


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