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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/22/2008 9:03:22 PM

Zensee

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You've been blessed, Philo. Shut up and take it!

Some people....

Z.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/22/2008 10:09:29 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Okay, not only am I getting a headache from banging my head against the wall but I’m starting to feel dizzy from running around in circles.

As I said before If people want to discuss the causes and effects if history, that’s one thing. I’m all for dispassionate analysis. In fact, I think there is way to little in society. And if you want to hate or cheer on one "side" or the other the other for whatever reasons, that’s your prerogative. But! Whatever conclusions one draws from such analysis, whatever one’s feeling regarding it, these remain the simple facts: Fidel Castro ruled as a dictator. He used torture and murder to achieve his ends. Screw him. That’s my position and I’m sticking with it.

Marc2b:
You keep saying that Castro used murder and torture to achieve his goals yet you have failed to provide any proof of your allegations.
When you post a cite that says that "Bill Smith" saw a policeman shoot an unarmed man that is no more proof than someone citing the Rodney King beating as proof that the U.S. is a dictatorship.
thompson

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/22/2008 10:20:04 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, why do you think Cuba would remain stuck in time. Every other dictatorship that we felt a need to prop up durring the Cold war has been replaced by Democracies. Some even voting admirers of Castro. The idea that there were/are two and only two choices is simply not true.

luckydog:
That Cuba would be stuck in time is your assertion and not mine.
What I said is that the U.S. has shown by over fifty years of practice (1898-1959)what sort of government it wishes for Cuba. Castro,in the past fifty years, has offered a Cuban alternative.
As for the dictatorships that the U.S. supported during the cold war which ones have become democracies that the U.S. supports.
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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 1:48:02 AM

seeksfemslave

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Vive Cuba Libre. whoever's in charge

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 6:58:01 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So a minnow backs with guns, bodies, and money revoutions in our neighboorhood, and sends its troops halfway around the world to intervene in fighting in Africa. Wants to put nukes on our doorstep, and provide Submarine bases for the Soviets. Just wanted to sit there minding its own bussiness huh? Just a minnow....

luckydog:
It would appear that the above criticisms might just as well be applied to the U.S.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/23/2008 6:59:35 AM >

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 10:56:48 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

You've been blessed, Philo. Shut up and take it!

Some people....

Z.

...awww, not at all. i like Marc's posts usually.....i genuinely just think he's got the wrong end of the stick here is all......

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 12:41:09 PM

Zensee

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True. I get his point (I think). But real world politics and history doesn't come apart for easy, back and white analysis (it should but it doesn't).

It would be hard to find a particular administration in any country which has not put ends above means at some time. Of course that's a matter of degrees but it moves the judgment out of the realm of ideals. So then the question, in my opinion, becomes more like a cost / benefit analysis than anything more rarified.

But perhaps that's only a justification that allows me to cherry pick tyrants according to my preferences, rather than a general principle.

Z.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 12:49:32 PM

mnottertail

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My understanding is that Ivan the Terrible played goddamn near scratch golf.

So, I agree, there is a balance there to be taken into consideration.

Ron

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 1:10:01 PM

Zensee

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So are suggesting we should apply an arbitrary, un-tyranny related standard in our assessment of despots, Ron?

I could get behind that.

Z.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 2:33:36 PM

mnottertail

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I don't know that we have free reign in this matter; it has been forcefully argued that we are pre-destined to do so. Totally out of our control, no matter which way we squirm.

The Zodiac Killer

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 2:35:34 PM

domiguy

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It warms my soul to see so many others "waiting approval"...Why doesn't Mod11 just kick those beyond control off of this site?

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 2:41:58 PM

mnottertail

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A benevolent dictatorship, perhaps?

I don't think that muzzling free speech is unique to Mod11. Castro did it, I believe.

Ron

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 2:42:12 PM

Zensee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
The Zodiac Killer

So it WAS you! I knew it I knew it I knew it!

Damn but you are one crafty MoFo.

Can't wait to I tell my friends. Made my weekend already and it's not even Saturday night.

Z.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 3:04:10 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

..that would be me.

Sorry if you felt left out. I was just tired and cranky and wanted to wrap up so I could go to bed.

quote:

Any chance of a response to my post #110?

Fair Enough.

To recall...

quote:

...only if we're going to apply the same principle to all, with no fear or favour....as in the rapist example you gave. All are equal under law. Problem is, when you have a country that has the ironically named Patriot Act, then it is too easy to say pot, kettle, black. Also, when that same country has propped up vicious regimes that oppressed their own people purely because they served US economic interests then clearly the same principle is not applied to all. i'm absolutely not saying that you supported this hypocrisy, but you can't ignore it......

I’m not saying to ignore it. I’m simply saying that (in my case anyway) it is insufficient reason to heap praise upon the man. As I said earlier, it is too much of an investment of mental energy to be pissed off at everybody all the time (okay, I didn’t say all the time before but I had meant to – I hate how the edit button disappears five minutes before you realize these things) so I am certainly not one of the perennially indignant (I stole that from P.J. O’Rourke, I think it aptly describes some people in the world). To be so would be to have no joy in life. As a general philosophical principle I give a pass (on being pissed off at) to people who’ve been dead at least a hundred and fifty years or so. I figure they’re long dead, their victims are long dead – no sense getting too worked up about it. Study the past, certainly. Learn from the past, by all means. Feel a little morally indignant and disgusted with the atrocities of the past, sure – but I save my moral indignation for more recent events and personages.

Castro fits that bill. The fact that others fit that bill is insufficient reason for me to exclude him. Saying that he was forced to jail people on flimsy excuses, saying that he was forced to torture people, simply isn’t going to wash with me. There is a difference between responding to a threat (real or perceived) and deliberately inflicting pain and injury on truly helpless people.

As for everyone being equal before the law, that is a goal I believe that we all should be working toward (I’m under no delusions that it will happen in my life time but hope springs eternal). How we should be working toward that goal are other matters for other debates.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 3:06:01 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

You've been blessed, Philo. Shut up and take it!

Just trying to end things on a positive note.

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 3:18:17 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

It warms my soul to see so many others "waiting approval"...Why doesn't Mod11 just kick those beyond control off of this site?

Don’t give her any ideas.

It has occurred to me that the sudden rash of Awaiting Approval’s means I somehow missed a battle royal. It must have been a whopper! Not that I haven’t done some AA time myself (you remember me, I was the guy who wandered off to a corner of the yard, a "screw everybody" look on my face, to just wait out my time).

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 3:59:16 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

There is a difference between responding to a threat (real or perceived) and deliberately inflicting pain and injury on truly helpless people.

Guantanemo is in Cuba. Castro tortured people in Cuba. A coincidence?

Not saying our President would work to get rid of habeas corpus or torture people based on flimsy reasons without the right to face their accusers.

Im still trying to understand why the US gnashes their teeth because they think Castro tortured people in Cuba, when the US is actively torturing people there.

Sinergy

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 4:04:55 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It warms my soul to see so many others "waiting approval"...Why doesn't Mod11 just kick those beyond control off of this site?

domiguy:
If you had tits and indoor plumbing we could be an item.
thompson

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 4:08:42 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

You've been blessed, Philo. Shut up and take it!

Some people....

Z.

...awww, not at all. i like Marc's posts usually.....i genuinely just think he's got the wrong end of the stick here is all......

philosophy:
Marc is holding the end of the stick that he chose...he is just having a rough time defending his grip.
thompson

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RE: Fidel Castro Resigns - 2/23/2008 4:14:55 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I don't know that we have free reign in this matter; it has been forcefully argued that we are pre-destined to do so. Totally out of our control, no matter which way we squirm.

The Zodiac Killer

My chemicals knew that you were going to say that....My chemicals seem to think that there is a high probability that I might jerk off tonight.

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