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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:35:07 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

Just because we recognize what reality IS doesn't necessarily mean we're closed off to what it COULD be


But, what if the real reality is that everyone's reality is different and, unique to them?


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:40:47 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I feel that a lot of what causes arguments here is that people have an ego centric view of the world. And feel that everyone else can, or should feel the way that they do-especially about ways to conduct an alternate lifestyle.

I like to look at things from many sides-I find it more enlightening than simply trying to enforce my views on others.

What do you think??


Hmm...I can come off somewhat zealous and that I am trying to change people's opinions to my own.

In all honesty, it's not really that. I don't find argument or debate to be a bad thing in the least. The clash of ideas and different perspectives is where things are put to the test, opinions are explored to logical conclusions, and ideas are stretched and shaken up.

Having a forum consisting of someone making a post and everybody giving them a pat on the back might be ideal for some people, but I fail to see how anything can really be learned. Without people saying "No, I think your wrong and this is why.", the validity or integrity of an idea cannot be tested. Without challenge, there is no second opinion to be viewed so people can make an informed decision as to whether something or someone is true or false, right or wrong.

I've had my opinions changed drastically and come to a new way of looking at things and most of those changes happened in the course of an argument. If it wasn't changed, then I found the arguments to be lacking or too abstract. I think I am pretty quick to say "I never thought about it that way. I appreciate that" as quick as I am to bluntly point out how completely ridicoulous I think something is or what orifice I really think they are talking out.

It's not a panel of experts. Call it self projecting your own experiences as the "Truth" or being the self apointed BDSM police, if there is going to be an exchange of accurate information, then everyone needs to say "I think this is wrong and I don't buy it and this is why."

The following exchange of words that will follow will hopefully provide what is needed for people to form their own opinion about which side is right.


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:43:29 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

Just because we recognize what reality IS doesn't necessarily mean we're closed off to what it COULD be


But, what if the real reality is that everyone's reality is different and, unique to them?



As much as I am a nihilist at heart, the strong pragmaticist in me beleives in the "common sense".

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:50:52 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

As much as I am a nihilist at heart, the strong pragmaticist in me beleives in the "common sense".


I find being a nihilist and a pragmatist at the same time is being at odds with oneself.  However, that is only "my" reality of the common sense of it all.  *grin*


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:54:31 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

As much as I am a nihilist at heart, the strong pragmaticist in me beleives in the "common sense".


I find being a nihilist and a pragmatist at the same time is being at odds with oneself.  However, that is only "my" reality of the common sense of it all.  *grin*



Lol. Well I am Mad....



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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:55:22 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		The reality is that you can never know all of reality.

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:56:29 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

Lol. Well I am Mad....


I don't think I can debate that issue!!


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 2:59:50 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

The reality is that you can never know all of reality.


But, how do you "know" that?  Really?


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 3:03:20 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

The reality is that you can never know all of reality.


But, how do you "know" that?  Really?



Because I know that my capacity for understanding is finite.

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 3:12:08 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

Because I know that my capacity for understanding is finite.


And, how do you "know" that, if, in fact, you never know all of reality. So, there is always more to ingest?  Wouldn't that make our quest for knowledge and the potential for understanding it, infinite?

And, if not...then stepping outside the box would be a mute point.  No?


< Message edited by MistressVnus -- 2/21/2008 3:15:00 PM >

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 3:18:31 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

Because I know that my capacity for understanding is finite.


And, how do you "know" that, if, in fact, you never know all of reality. So, there is always more to ingest?  Wouldn't that make our quest for knowledge and the potential for understanding it, infinite?

And, if not...then stepping outside the box would be a mute point.  No?



Have you stood on the surface of mars?

Or viewed the sun from it's center?

What is it like to be male?

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 3:19:35 PM   
TracyTaken


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quote:

I feel that a lot of what causes arguments here is that people have an ego centric view of the world. And feel that everyone else can, or should feel the way that they do


I often feel that way; it's because I'm often right about everything. 

quote:

-especially about ways to conduct an alternate lifestyle.


No so much there.  I tend to push my opinion hard in areas that are more important than WIIWD, like politics and religion - the really fun stuff.  

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 3:38:15 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

Have you stood on the surface of mars? Or viewed the sun from it's center? What is it like to be male?


Perhaps I have.  And I do know.  But, it was from another time and/or another dimension?  What if?
Would you believe me?  Would you step outside the box to think of the possibilities?  Or, just go by your (in the box) reality and say it's a bunch of poppycock?  Do you "know" the answer to that to?


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:23:47 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

Have you stood on the surface of mars? Or viewed the sun from it's center? What is it like to be male?


Perhaps I have.  And I do know.  But, it was from another time and/or another dimension?  What if?
Would you believe me?  Would you step outside the box to think of the possibilities?  Or, just go by your (in the box) reality and say it's a bunch of poppycock?  Do you "know" the answer to that to?



Nope. I would inquire if it was creditable. I would entertain the possibilities long enough to determine whether or not I beleived it to be plausible.

Taking the existential and nihilist route is a fun mental exercise and an enjoyable use of the imagination, but this still is the Internet and there is still people who *gasp" lie and come here with fictional biographies.

To me, this is just confusing gullibility with open-mindness. Everyone has to decide what they do or do not beleive and what they do or do not agree with.

I take the nihilist route with morals, ethics, virtues, and all that wonderful metaphysical stuff, but the similarility of shared human experience always keeps me pragmatic. There is an objective reality. The apple IS red, because 99% of people saw it as red and it's not an "nihilistic unknown" beause one color blind guy saw it as grey. Stealing is illegial in the United States and that is the objective reality for anyone living in the United States, but the vast overwhelming majority enforce that reality.

You either have walked on the surface of Mars or you haven't. You can provide fact and evidence to convince me it's plausible or you can't. It's either true or it's not. In the abscence of these things and the prescense of whatever information I have, its always a virtue to me for me or anyone to decide it's a bunch of poppycock if that is, in fact, what they decide.

The existential drive of "What ifs" is always fascinating brain fonder, but if taken to its complete conclusion, everything and anything can have a "What if?" attached to it. At that point, all there is is doubt about our "knowledge". How can we really "know" anything? And if we can't trust our knowledge and our common sense, then how can we make a decision and take a course of action?

This is why I am ultimately just a nihilist at heart, because in the end, it's a self defeating philosophy.





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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:29:33 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

The existential drive of "What ifs" is always fascinating brain fonder, but if taken to its complete conclusion, everything and anything can have a "What if?" attached to it. At that point, all there is is doubt about our "knowledge". How can we really "know" anything? And if we can't trust our knowledge and our common sense, then how can we make a decision and take a course of action?
This is why I am ultimately just a nihilist at heart, because in the end, it's a self defeating philosophy.


These existential "what if's" are what have led us to the "truth" that the world is round.  That man "CAN" travel to the moon.  AND, that we can blow up the freakin world in one fatal swoop.  That we can clone ourselves.  That we can have medical breakthroughs and cure diseases.  Even cancer!!  Who would have thunk it back in the 1600's or even sooner? And, sometimes later.  Like even NOW. 
Those nihilists!!  Somebody...oh, SOMEBODY, must have been thinking outside the box!!!
As I said in another post.  Stay open.....as more shall be reavealed.  But that is only me stepping outside the box.
Or, being pragmatic, has it become a "proven" fact that existenialism can lead to a "new" reality.?

< Message edited by MistressVnus -- 2/21/2008 4:36:57 PM >

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:35:03 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

Have you stood on the surface of mars? Or viewed the sun from it's center? What is it like to be male?


Perhaps I have.  And I do know.  But, it was from another time and/or another dimension?  What if?
Would you believe me?  Would you step outside the box to think of the possibilities?  Or, just go by your (in the box) reality and say it's a bunch of poppycock?  Do you "know" the answer to that to?



Hands you a straw.

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:38:51 PM   
MistressVnus


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quote:

Hands you a straw.


Is it good shit? 


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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:40:17 PM   
girlygurl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I feel that a lot of what causes arguments here is that people have an ego centric view of the world. And feel that everyone else can, or should feel the way that they do-especially about ways to conduct an alternate lifestyle.

I like to look at things from many sides-I find it more enlightening than simply trying to enforce my views on others.

What do you think??


Good topic Leatherist. Communication in general can be a challenge for some and adding into the equation the medium of the internet makes it that much harder. What we type and our intent behind our message is not necessarily what the reader gets. As I'm sure you know, the reader will interpret the message based on many variables of which has nothing to do with the poster, message, or vocabulary used.... It's impossible to please everyone all the time. No matter how sweet and how carefully we choose our words... it will inevitably piss someone off.

I learned very early on (here on CM) that people here are no different than anywhere else.... everyone has opinions, everyone has their beliefs of what is right and wrong, and including myself, sometimes have difficulty stepping outside of the box.

The biggest surprise I had after partaking on the threads for a period of time was the amount of judgement that took place. But then it hit me!!! I had an expectation from those on CM.... I expected them to be open minded and free of judgement.... ha! NOT! People on Collarme are just like anyone else (well, kinda ) they're gonna judge others, have bad days, respond inappropriately.... well, you get the idea I'm sure.

Unfortunately, people are often misinterpreted thus inaccurate impressions are formed. Of course, there are some who don't give a rip what they say, how they say it, who they offend, and even go out of their way to intentionally create drama...... life has enough freakin drama! For me, the threads are about learning, laughing, and making friends. I guess I'm fortunate.... I'm doing all three and having a blast.

I appreciate your comment, "I like to look at things from many sides-I find it more enlightening than simply trying to enforce my views on others." When we stop talking about how we think the world should be and start listening we begin to learn and expand our horizons.

girly

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:40:51 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

Hands you a straw.


Is it good shit? 



Ever see the scene in cheech and chong's "Nice dreams" with Timothy Leary?
 
 You might not come back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0T8YtIat7o

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 2/21/2008 4:42:17 PM >

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RE: Self projection, stepping outside of the box. - 2/21/2008 4:41:47 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

The existential drive of "What ifs" is always fascinating brain fonder, but if taken to its complete conclusion, everything and anything can have a "What if?" attached to it. At that point, all there is is doubt about our "knowledge". How can we really "know" anything? And if we can't trust our knowledge and our common sense, then how can we make a decision and take a course of action?
This is why I am ultimately just a nihilist at heart, because in the end, it's a self defeating philosophy.


These existential "what if's" are have what led us to the "truth" that the world is round.  That man "CAN" travel to the moon.  AND, that we can blow up the freakin world in one fatal swoop.  Who would have thunk it back in the 1700's?
Those nihilists!!  Somebody...oh, SOMEBODY, must have been thinking outside the box!!!



Entertaining possibilities is very important. I won't argue you with that. I will argue that entertaining possibilities that are plausible is what brought on new achievements and accomplishment.. "This is how it could happen, how it can be done, how it can work" as opposed to "What if I suddenly grew wings out of my back and flew to a new galaxy to bring back a new form of laser technology to profit off of and retire?"

However, the context you asked the questions I replied to wasn't in the context of "future possibilities" but rather the "possibility of past events". "Is it possible for me to have done these things in the past?" as opposed to "Is it possible for me to do it in the future?".

You are right. Sure, all of it is possible. You cannot prove a negative to a possibile unknown. It's a logical fallcy. It's possible you might be writing this message from a moon made of green cheese. The question is whether it is plausible or not.

And, no, it's not. It's not plausible because the common knowledge that I possess tells me that you cannot have walked on Mars or been to the center of sun. To change that, you will have to expand on my knowledge of how you could have do it with facts and information, not with endless "What ifs" that only serve to send someone on a nihilistic spiral to nothing.

Which is where nihilism leads, because if the world is devoid of all meaning and nothing is ever certain and we can never really know anything, then nihilism must be uncertain and we can't ever really know if everything is devoid of meaning.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/21/2008 4:42:53 PM >

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