RE: What is it? (Full Version)

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stella41b -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 2:38:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
Okay, so please show me - in any English language dictionary or thesaurus you care to choose - that 'consent' is a synonym of 'to put up with'. This is the first false premise.


Since you asked,  Cambridge defines consent as "allow someone to do something."  In my language to allow someone to do something, whether by inviting it or putting up with it, that is consent.

quote:


The second is you appear to think that the abused victim has somewhere to go, or even, more to the point, has the courage and awareness to deal with the trauma of the break up of a long term relationship.


I'm not sure why you think that. Having been a victim of spousal abuse for 17 years, I have been saying in this thread an in others, how much work it takes to recover from abuse. But I do agree with you, that until one can muster the courage to heal from it, they won't heal.  I have also been saying that until someone is aware he/she is being abused, he/she will be unable to stop it. 

How is that at odds with your thinking?

quote:


Then there's another major issue - the social stigma. Go read some of the posts here from those who are so willing to pass quick judgments and apportion the blame. Being abused in a relationship carries with it a sort of social stigma, it conjures up immediately mental images of failure, emotional and psychological issues, and not many people are willing to reach out and help in such situations.


You must have missed my post where I said I was really embarrassed about my abuse, once I realized it.  I couldn't believe I was in a relationship like that.  However, your post has me even more grateful for my family and friends, because I never once encountered someone who wasn't willing to help me.  To the contrary, I was overwhelmed with how much love was in my life, and I had to allow myself to accept all the help that was offered to me.  I am sorry that was not your experience.  That is indeed a shame, and saddens me.

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The other thing is the break up of a long term relationship is hardly a confidence booster, even when you don't have issues. So what's it going to be like when you do have issues?


I'm not sure if you think 17+ years is not a long term relationship, but I am well aware of all the issues surrounding a break up.  It is hell.  For me it meant sleeping with my lights on every night and literally clinging to my bed so I didn't get up and "run home" because even there seemed safer then where I was.  Fortunately I had loving people in my life and a good therapist who taught me to boost my confidence.  That, and a healthy dose of determination was an important recipe for me.


quote:


Very easy to make judgments and find fault and make sweeping generalizations.


Yes, having overcome nearly 20 years of abuse and reinventing my life so that I could be happy does make it easy for me to make judgments. 

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The fact remains the same, in an abusive relationship there are two victims - the abuser and the abused. Rather than jumping in both feet first and apportioning the blame and trying to find fault, wouldn't it be much better to try and use a little imagination and try to understand?


This pretty much tells me you have only selectively read my posts, so there really isn't much to respond here. 

quote:


There is no right. Right is a textbook model of a relationship. This is about reality.

Right is learning to be true to yourself and being brave enough and determined enough to do so.  Until then, there are victims.  I was once a victim.  Now I am thriving.  You have no idea how many women I have reached out to and helped, because of what I have been through.  I am well aware of reality.

quote:


And the reality is, like it or not, that BOTH the abuser and the abused need help.

Both have to want it.

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The abuser needs to be given support and an opportunity to face up to their issues and overcome them, and if this means a lengthy prison sentence then so be it. I do not condone abuse, such behaviour is unacceptable in society and I don't care whether the victim is a child or an adult, if the abuser cannot or will not face up to their issues then they should be removed from society until such time when they have dealt with their issues.

Interesting perspective

quote:


The abused also needs to be given support and help to face up to their issues, and attitudes such as 'they share the blame' or 'they consented to the abuse' can be almost as damaging as the abuse itself. 

What is your version of help? 

The best help my therapist (a PhD, certified family therapist of 28 years) gave me was the ability to recognize that I was allowing people to treat me in a way that wasn't healthy for me.  Once I could see that, I could decide how I wanted and deserved to be treated, and could create healthy boundaries for myself to preserve that. 

But then I said that already. 

quote:


Only there's not enough support to go round for everyone who needs it, because such support costs taxpayers' money, and there are many who perceive single mothers as among the pariahs of society. There's an element here of social responsibility that nobody has even mentioned because it seems so many are so quick to make judgments and apportion the blame.

My support cost taxpayers nothing.  I was fortunate to not need government help to heal and recover.  You have just made a claim that everyone who needs support uses taxpayer money.  Interesting, since you don't like sweeping generalizations.

quote:


It just might be that this problem exists because the 'blame the victim for their own misfortune' strategy just isn't working. 


Accepting responsibility for one's life is something I will always condone.  I'm sorry you do not agree with that philosophy.  I know it is a difficult thing to do.  It took me almost 20 years to realize it.  Until then, I continued to repeat my unhealthy patterns.

I wish you well. 


First off this is a very emotive subject for many people here. Some of my previous post was general and not directed specifically towards you ownedgirlie. I didn't make it clear and you appeared to have assumed the whole post was a response to your post, which it wasn't. I hope this clarifies things. If I caused offence I'm sorry, but at the end of the day your life experiences are different to mine and everyone else's and we all have our own individual take on this issue.

But there are things I'd like to come back on. Your path is different from mine. In my case it's a story of 30 years of gender and identity confusion exacerabated by physical, emotional and psychological abuse in childhood and having to reinvent myself in a different gender. It's different. Both paths are equally valid.

I don't know where you get the idea that I don't condone accepting responsibility for one's life. I mean, I'm only working my way through gender reassignment, I'm devoting my artistic career in theatre to helping disadvantaged people and working with such people through theatre workshops to enable them to assume a greater degree of responsibility and independence in their lives through giving them the opportunity to pursue their own talents and creative interests, and I do actually do a lot of voluntary and charity work helping a great many people. This is not to mention a play which I've written about an abusive relationship which has been staged in several countries and some years ago received critical acclaim at the Sydney Fringe Festival. Therefore I take this as an error of judgment on your part.

I'm also writing from a much broader perspective than just my own experiences.

Not everybody can be in a position to accept responsibility for their lives. Are you prepared to allow an abuse victim with a history of clinical depression, self-harm and suicide attempts for example to maintain responsibility for their own lives?

Agreed there are those who can and should take responsibility for their lives but they don't. In my capacity as a volunteer for the homeless and giving advice it would be much better if everyone took the advice given, but about 75% don't. But like you say it takes time. A significant factor is how one copes with stress and adversity, not everyone is able to cope well, and some people take the easy way out or give up. Human nature.

True, both abuser and abused have to want help, but the abuser in not seeking or wanting help presents a potential threat to someone else. I've worked with wife-beaters both in theatre workshops and in voluntary work, I don't condone violence against women, I don't condone drug abuse either, I just simply recognize that I'm dealing with another human being who needs help and I'm prepared to give whatever help is needed.

You ask what help? Well it's admirable you had a therapist and support network, but not everybody has this to fall back on. Not everyone succeeds, not everybody can be strong, some get involved in alcohol and drug abuse, some get involved in prostitution and crime. There's a whole network of support and advice agencies for everything from housing to substance misuse counselling, short term accommodation, medical and healthcare facilities, befriending, legal aid, which are all there to help an abuse victim deal with the many complex issues arising from their abuse.

You know, I help and work with people with a wide variety of issues ranging from convicted murderers and rapists through victims of abuse, the mentally ill, people at the very bottom of society, but you know I see it as I've made mistakes in life, they've made their's. Everyone has got their own history and life story to tell. But when I'm dealing with such people I'm not there to condone or condemn. I just see a human being who's in need of help. Nothing more.



ownedgirlie -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 3:10:38 PM)

No offense taken, Stella.  I can appreciate the differences in opinions, and was simply answering the questions you posed in your last post.

Your last post quoted me and contained many "you" statements which appeared to be addressed to me. You have now said you were being general and not specifically addressing me.  You have quoted me again here, however, and your post again contains a lot of "you" statements, so I'm not sure if you are addressing me specifically or being general again.

I will only say that I was pissed as hell when first told I needed to take responsibility for myself and what I allowed in my world.  I yelled and swore at my therapist, and felt that those who were telling me such things really didn't understand.  And while I understand that everyone's experiences are different, I still stand by my own opinion that until someone takes responsibility for themselves to whatever degree they are capable, they are potentially setting themselves up for a repeat performance.

As to your clinically depressed and suicide question, my nephew tried a second attempt on his life a couple of years ago, and it was horrendously traumatic for everyone involved.  He carved up his body and made a bloody mess (quite literally) and my brother spent an entire day cleaning his son's blood up.  It was awful.  I think it was more awful than visiting his son in a lock-down psych ward.  I'm not sure if it was more awful than living day to day on eggshells anticipating wtih anxiety and fear for the phone to ring with the news that his son finally succeeded and was dead.  Fortunately that never happened.

My nephew is now thriving, however, having taken responsibility for getting treatment and following the plan of care set out for him.  He is currently in Brazil, studying JiuJitsu with blackbelt Masters and his last email said, "I am living my dream!"  He refused to be a victim of himself and worked his ass off to take the power back from his disease.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone go through a greater hell.

I also agree with you that not everyone succeeds, and that is indeed sad.  A speaker for NAMI (National Association for the Mentally Ill) once said, "Not everyone makes it in this world.  Some are just not strong enough to fight for themselves.  This world is just too hard for some people."  I believe this is the case.  We as family, friends, fellow church-goers, therapists, volunteer support groups, etc., can do all we can to help someone, but if they resist the help, we are limited in what we can accomplish.

It's that ol' "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" thing.  A lot of people have to reach their bottom before they can accept help.  And for some, the bottom is much deeper than for others.

I did not intend to make sweeping generalizations for the world at large, but I do speak from personal experience and from having done a lot of work with myself and with others, to crawl out of the Abyss and into sunlight.

I wish you the best.



lateralist1 -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 3:37:26 PM)

In a society that doesn't talk about sex or relationships with children how does anyone growing up know what is healthy?
I had no idea that I had been sexually abused as a child until I found myself in the lifestyle.
As a child I was taught not to question what adults did to me.
As a woman it was seen by my parents as perfectly acceptable for a man to hit me.
The first munch I attended a Dom dug me in the ribs.
A sub looked down my shirt in a learing way.
The second munch I attended a Domme told me to take my tobacco off the table in front of her. Were those sittuations abusive?
If you tell someone not to do something and then they go on and do it purposefully is that abuse?
I have been in lots of abusive situations in my life I often chose to ignore some of them so as not to put myself in further danger.
Even in public you can not expect someone to come to your defense.
I've been told by a female friend that women who are raped ask for it because of the clothes they wear.
It must be very very frustrating to work with women who are abused who keep going back to their male partners BUT if you don't understand the reasons then your in the wrong job.
There are no answers. No solutions. So one woman gets out of a relationship with an abusive man. He only moves on to another woman.
Women need relationships and some men feed off that to get what they want.




BlackPhx -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 5:49:09 PM)

Thank you GT it went to D.C. with the Clothesline Project against Domestic Violence.

poenkitten 



DisenchantedLife -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 5:55:16 PM)

Thank you everyone for contributing to this dicussion.  Obviously I was hoping for an easy answer.  Apparently, there isn't one. 

Owned I appreciate you writing your story.  I appreciate everyone's input.  Thank you.  Its given me a lot to think about



DisenchantedLife -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 5:57:56 PM)

Holy shit.  Owned, I know you've posted that link before - but with all the other links, I never read it.  I just read it.  Oh my, it just described so many feelings I had had.  Especially the first one.  I struggled with that the whole relationship.  I kept trying to find ways to make it so he liked me.  Erm.  Many of those. 

Wow.  Thanks for the link.  Maybe it'll also help with answers.  At least I wont feel so out in left field for awhile!



BlackPhx -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 6:08:18 PM)

What few people want to realize is D.V. cuts across all economic lines, all social lines, all races, religions, ages and abilities. Women who are highly intelligent, capable and at the top of their Career Paths are abused nearly as often as the poor woman living in  the slums with 6 kids. Grandparents, Fathers, Wives, Sisters, Brothers, Mothers  are all just as subject to domestic violence as the 20 year old. Not all of the men or women who abuse are sociopaths, in fact most sociopaths are in far more control of themselves than abusers are.

Here's a few thoughts:
  1. Most cities have Rape Crisis Spouse Abuse Centers. These centers can provide shelter, services and legal aid to women and children.
  2. Most cities have NOTHING in place for the abused Man. Yes they exist. In Hetero and Gay relationships.  There are no shelters, no services, and often if they report it the cops shame them for not standing up for themselves and being a man. The only saving grace is whoever threw the blow that marked the other is going to jail at least for the night, male or female.
  3. Abuse and DV is happening more and more among teenagers.
  4. The average person in a abuse situation tries 5 times before they finally escape. They may leave for a short period but Abusers will threaten children, parents, relatives to bring them back under their control. Often 1 child will be kept with an abuser any time the "victim" goes to the store, or runs errands and they are strictly timed.
  5. At the moment when a victim of DV makes that transition to freedom they are in greater danger of death than at any other time.
  6. Restraining Orders are not bulletproof, nor are they always executed equally. They are taken far more seriously now than they were in the past, but it takes persistence to actually get something done between the police and the courts. Many times the court lets an Abuser back on the street before the ink is dry on the charges. Women have been burned with acid, stabbed, burned, paralyzed and killed all by Abusers who were released with a warning not to ignore the restraining order again.

It aint pretty and yes one of the biggest difference is the attention our Dom/inas and Masters/Mistresses pay to our needs, and feelings. When that goes, it's time to reevaluate.

poenkitten



GreedyTop -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 6:08:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx
Thank you GT it went to D.C. with the Clothesline Project against Domestic Violence.
poenkitten 

and well it should have!



servantheart -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 6:40:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: subnstudent

Maybe the person wants to be 'taken' instead of having to continue giving consent?
Maybe the person is looking for the fantasy, and doesn't have a 'good bdsm relationship' to compare to?

It's a blanket question to which there really can be no one specific answer without knowing the details about the incidents involved, ya? There's a lot of crap that goes on in the world and as long as there are good people, there will be bad people too. All sorts, good and bad. The best thing a person can do is choose his company, and oftentimes the people a person hangs out with is a reflection of himself.

The jerks and predators of the world have their issues too.. it just happens to be opposite to the problems of the prey. I can think of plenty of situations where "I'm owed something" can be a perfectly logical (though not necessarily healthy) reason for engaging in any kind of behavior. That doesn't really make it 'right,' but sometimes there's no guilt or 'self' involved. When a person's in pain, he becomes detached from himself after a time and he's different than someone who's in touch with himself. Does that make any sense?


And there are people who are perfectly in touch with themselves and thier nature.
 
 And that nature is evil, and they glory in it. 


I have to agree with this for the most part.  Some people are just plain nasty and nothing will ever change that.  I was victim to an emotional abuser and wrote about that in my blog.  It's too long to post here, but for those interested, it can be found at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-GdPXgms8aKjAdfQbYTQk?l=16&u=19&mx=19&lmt=5  (Monsters Do Exist).
 
Personally, I don't want to understand someone cruel enough to abuse another living creature, be it human or nonhuman. 




BlackPhx -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 6:47:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

[Maybe you'd have a better understanding if you stopped licking your own wounds and put in some time at a women's shelter.  The women there are their own worst enemies.



I have, as a counselor, a hotline responder and a rape responder (we went to hospitals to work with and help the victims of rape deal with the rape kit process and to be a shoulder). I have also been on the other side of the coin. If you think that 1 or 3, or 15 years of abuse is going to be wiped out with a little chat with a counselor and help filing restraining orders from a lawyer you need to take another look. Pavlov had a perfect understanding and model of these survivors and I call them that because the victims are often dead. They are conditioned to their Masters voice to his control as completely as those dogs were to salivating at the bell. It takes nearly as long in therapy to recover from abuse as it did to succumb to it. It doesn't happen over night and like a child taking their first steps, each time they try to leave and stay free a little longer they get a bit stronger.

It is real easy to sit on the outside and say they are their own worst enemy, but the reality is they are not. Their Enemies are:
  1. Courts that drag out proceedings, that release Abusers with little more than a slap on the wrist, and who mire the Survivor down in battles for custody often insisting that the accused since he is not convicted of anything be able to freely visit the minor children (which means he has the address they escaped to if it is not supervised at DCF).
  2. It is a system that is overcrowded where women and children are squeezed 6 to a room that barely holds 2 comfortably until they can get social services and a place to live. It is a system that has no place for men who have been abused.
  3. It is parents who raised them with the made your bed lie in it, who say, he's only going through a bad patch, suck it up and stick it out, or..he's a good provider and father you won't find better.  
  4. It is neighbors who turn a deaf ear and a blind eye, and friends who don't check on these people.

It is having no place to go, no support other than strangers, no money, no health insurance, transportation, jobs or job skills that sits looming like a black cloud over these survivors saying you can't get out. They have been systematically torn down for years and no matter how scared you are, no matter how strong you think you are, it takes tremendous effort and a catalyst to break those chains. Sometimes it is seeing your kids following in the Abusers footsteps, sometimes it is them being abused, sometimes it is a friend who shows you what you cannot see. Sometimes it is being beaten half to death and ending up in the hospital. And sometimes it is not. Not the first time, or the second or even the third that you try to get out, because you are still facing a system where if you don't have money, health care, transportation, and a dedicated Legal Aid Lawyer better than the one he can afford to pay in a divorce proceeding, you face living on the streets, your kids going hungry, and loss of your home, all access to assets and even your kids.

Any one can file a restraining order. Doesn't take a lawyer or a paralegal. But it takes a strong heart to look in the eyes of a survivor, see the pain , the fear and know that you are a part of that fear, that you might judge her, even though you reassure her you won't. I have fed them, clothed them, fought for housing and services for them and wept when they succeeded, and cried when they were murdered. I have seen them escape and be dragged back by the very system that is supposed to protect them.

They can face the enemy that is them, but how do they face the enemy that is helping and judging them at the same time. It takes strength to leave even temporarily.

poenkitten




SimplyMichael -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 6:55:48 PM)

Wow, I normally have a lot of respect for CM posters but this thread displays about as much ignorance as I have ever seen here.

Women who stay in abusive relationships were almost always raised in abusive relationships and those relationship patterns are imprinted deeply into their psyche.  Daddy emotionally manipulated/scared/abused mommy and so a kid grows up with that as their relationship model, the whole way they deal with the world is shaped by that experience.  I used to emotionally batter and abuse my partners, the last one is on a full ride fellowship to a major research university and is smarter probably than anyone here.  It isn't about being dumb, it isn't about not having a place to go, it isn't about thinking at all.  I was raised to control others by being scary, she was raised to respond to that.  Lucky for both of us, we realized what was going on and both made amazing progress in the relationship and I am past those issues for the most part.

Society has made great progress in dealing with this issue although much remains to be done.  Both sides of this issue are victims, both suffer greatly, one by being victimized, the other by never feeling truly happy.

People are abused have a responsibility (as in owning/admiting your issue) for picking their partners but that only refers to their role in picking and staying with abusive partners.  That is NOT the same as saying it is their fault, fault and blame lie 100% with the abuser.  



GreedyTop -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 6:59:34 PM)

~FR~

poenkitten.. *smooch*

I think I love you.,. (that won't be a problem for Himself, will it?? *grin*)



TracyTaken -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 7:07:07 PM)

quote:

People are abused have a responsibility (as in owning/admiting your issue) for picking their partners but that only refers to their role in picking and staying with abusive partners. That is NOT the same as saying it is their fault, fault and blame lie 100% with the abuser.


I agree. 



TracyTaken -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 7:24:52 PM)

quote:

It is real easy to sit on the outside and say they are their own worst enemy, but the reality is they are not. Their Enemies are:

1. Courts that drag out proceedings, that release Abusers with little more than a slap on the wrist, and who mire the Survivor down in battles for custody often insisting that the accused since he is not convicted of anything be able to freely visit the minor children (which means he has the address they escaped to if it is not supervised at DCF).


And the problem with requesting supervised custody is ...?

quote:

2. It is a system that is overcrowded where women and children are squeezed 6 to a room that barely holds 2 comfortably until they can get social services and a place to live. It is a system that has no place for men who have been abused.


It has no place for men because men wouldn't go to a shelter.  The overcrowding would be greatly eased if there were not repeat visitors.  Don't you agree?  In a more effective system, I would be of the opinion that children allowed to live in a violent home should be taken from both parents since both are obviously unfit parents.

quote:

3. It is parents who raised them with the made your bed lie in it, who say, he's only going through a bad patch, suck it up and stick it out, or..he's a good provider and father you won't find better.


Yes, some of us had really sucky parents.  Let's blame them!

quote:

4. It is neighbors who turn a deaf ear and a blind eye, and friends who don't check on these people.


The *very* last thing I would suggest to anyone who suspected dometic violence would be to "check on these people" because that could be a very dangerous thing to do.   I'd advise to call 911.

Regardless, if everything goes swimmingly well through the courts, the shelter was fabulous, the parents were the Bradys, and the neighbors were everything you could hope for, and the woman goes back ... after a while people stop - the cops aren't as quick to respond, the judge isn't as likely sign another restraining order, the parents stop listening, the neighbors stop caring because it becomes clear that it is is impossible to save a person from him/herself when he/she doesn't want to save him/herself from him/herself.

All the scary financial stuff could be the story of any woman who left a bad relationship, not just an abusive one.

I commend your compassion but stick to my guns:  The woman changes or nothing changes.  That is the truth of my experience.



BlackPhx -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 8:06:50 PM)

Nah he says always room for one more...lots of me to love.

poenkitten



BlackPhx -> RE: What is it? (2/24/2008 8:57:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

And the problem with requesting supervised custody is ...?

It has no place for men because men wouldn't go to a shelter.  The overcrowding would be greatly eased if there were not repeat visitors.  Don't you agree?  In a more effective system, I would be of the opinion that children allowed to live in a violent home should be taken from both parents since both are obviously unfit parents.

Yes, some of us had really sucky parents.  Let's blame them!

The *very* last thing I would suggest to anyone who suspected dometic violence would be to "check on these people" because that could be a very dangerous thing to do.   I'd advise to call 911.

Regardless, if everything goes swimmingly well through the courts, the shelter was fabulous, the parents were the Bradys, and the neighbors were everything you could hope for, and the woman goes back ... after a while people stop - the cops aren't as quick to respond, the judge isn't as likely sign another restraining order, the parents stop listening, the neighbors stop caring because it becomes clear that it is is impossible to save a person from him/herself when he/she doesn't want to save him/herself from him/herself.

All the scary financial stuff could be the story of any woman who left a bad relationship, not just an abusive one.

I commend your compassion but stick to my guns:  The woman changes or nothing changes.  That is the truth of my experience.



The problem with requesting supervised visits is the same one that says they are needed. Fear. That and the fact that he can follow them home, get information from the kids, many problems, but the basic one is fear, that in involving DCF you will lose your kids. Not and unreasonable fear in some places, and a system that is damned hard to get out of once you and yours are in it.

Is it that men would not go to a shelter, or that there is no shelter for them. The few YMCA's that still have residences are still available at low rates that someone escaping may be able to handle, but it unlikely that he is going to recieve any finacial, or medical aid from them. Unfortunately they are few and far between these days and the homeless shelters barely manage with the homeless.  Men are often taught as boys that you never admit weakness, you stand up to the bullies, etc. so how do you go to a cop and say, my BF beat me up, my wife burned me? There are shelters that do take men however, very few, and very over crowded. What is below applies to Hetero as well as Homosexual relationships and Lesbian as well. Any and all of them can have their abusers.
Some reasons why men might stay in an abusive relationship
 
Many men cope with being abused by taking on a macho "I can handle it" attitude.  Even if they have been hurt much worse on an athletic playing field, that is not the same thing as being physically attacked by your intimate partner, which hurts emotionally as well as physically.  Allowing this pattern to continue can result in depression, substance abuse, loss of confidence, even suicide.  Men typically face a greater degree of disbelief and ridicule than do most women in this situation, which helps enforce the silence.  Domestic violence victims make excuses for injuries that show ("It was an accident" or "it happened while playing sports") when friends or medical personnel ask about them.  Abusers are expert at making victims feel no one is on their side, which is a self-fulfilling prophecy--the more they withdraw from friends and family to protect the partner, the less other people will be able to help them by confirming their experiences.

Yes there are repeat visitors. A Survivor may try 5 or more times before they are finally free. Fear of the abuser, fear of the system, belief that all he has told you is true, you will lose you home (you just did) you will have no money (you don't) your kids will be taken away (he fights for custody and the courts barely believe you have been abused because you went back more than once), no one will believe you (well there's little proof save that 911 call and it was just an argument after all, few battered people get regular medical care, so it's just your word against his). Like you say the cops are tired of going out there and are slower to respond, the Judge who goes home to a loving wife and kids doesn't understand why you HAD to go back, that you believed the threats and know that he is going to kill you, your parents, your kids (whoever is precious) because he is back on the street already, just like he said, they couldn't hold him. Again.

We are already blaming them saying they taught the survivor to accept abuse, and not just here, it is a common thread, Mom was hit and she never left dad, Dad toed the line and gave Mom all the money, she ran the house. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree unless it makes a really good effort at doing so and even then, usually needs a helping hand. But it is not just Mom and Dad, or even Popop and Nana, it is happening with out teenagers, boys being abused by their GF, and vice versa. Music that demeans women and men, calling them the most derogatory names possible, movies, and games that glorify the ill treatment of others. As an adult I can put these things in perspective, your average 15 year old may think they can, but it still shapes their attitudes more than they suspect.

You haven't heard from a friend or relative in a while, Call them. Hell my son fell out of contact for a couple of months. He switched to using cell phones instead of a house line, got busy with work and well..I didn't get the number. When I couldn't contact him, I contacted a neighbor who told me she sees him and talks to his wife daily. That was all I needed to know. He was fine. If you always see your neighbor wearing turtlenecks and long sleeves on a 90 degree day, you don't have to say anything. Make a note of when you saw it. If you hear fighting, crashing sounds, screams don't turn up the TV call 911. The call can be anonymous, and you may save a life.

Yeah all the scary financial stuff could be the story of any woman who left a bad relationship. But usually when she is leaving, she has someplace to go, has put away some money and has clothing. I had them brought to the shelter wearing nothing but a blanket the cops supplied and a cast, underwear, bloody clothing that the cops collected after we were able to give them a change of clothing and every state in between.

I don't blame the child who has been abused yet cries when they are taken from the only parent they know. I don't blame the dog who has been beaten and starved to death for not biting the hand that beat it or running away. I don't blame the survivor for needing more than one try at escaping. If you look in their eyes they are all the same, they expect us to beat them as well.

poenkitten



DisenchantedLife -> RE: What is it? (2/25/2008 6:42:33 AM)

quote:

And the problem with requesting supervised custody is ...?


The courts don't want to grant it, thats what the fucking problem is.  They want to keep "the families intact".  I've heard that if they do, grant supervised visits.... its only for a few months.  By gosh people, its not fair to force parents to visit their children at facilities.  (all sarcasm included).  I have been hoping, praying, begging, for supervised visits since December.  Did you know my infant has gone through HELL, because the courts wouldn't grant it.  Hell.  Pure fucking hell.  So much so, that he literally stopped growing.  Just stopped fucking growing.  Oh, but its not failure to thrive yet.  Can't do anything about it, so sorry!  So many different possible explanations for it.  Couldnt be the fact that those fuckers told me he's barely eating in those long long hours they rip him out of my arms for.  So sorry!  DCF can't do anything about it.  Oh and don't worry, DCF notified me that if I make too many complaints, it looks bad on me! 

Don't get me started about the system.  The system isn't set up to protect.  Know what I learned?  I can't say "something bad will happen, please protect my child"  I have to wait for something bad to happen.  And why on God's Green Earth am I going to sit around and wait for something bad to happen.  You have to prove it!  And being able to prove past abuse doesn't cut it.  Know what the cops told me?  "Well maybe its just something between you and him".  Never mind him overheating all of us in the car.  Oh and one of the best things I've heard is...... "the prosecuting attornies have so many cases and it would take years for them to prosecute every case, don't be disapointed if they choose not to prosecute"  Wtf?  Go figure!  Reporting a crime doesnt mean anything will happen.  They might be tooooo busy! 

Oh boy!  And if you want to know what the police let these fuckers get away with.....  I've got more shit to say! 

Hasn't anyone watched Dr Phil lately?  Didn't you all see the story about the lady whose husband tried to kill her, but was stopped mid progress and the judge let him out on his own recog?  Because it was a first offense.  "So sorry he almost kill you, but since it was only once, we're going to let him go" 

Its not that easy folks.  Getting out doesnt mean "walk away".  Its means you battle your demons, you battle the demon, you battle the courts, you battle the police, and you hope to god somebody cares.  Cos they usually fucking dont. 



DisenchantedLife -> RE: What is it? (2/25/2008 6:47:24 AM)

you know what also happens with these women.....

straight out of the mouth of a lady waiting to get a restraining order for her little girl...

"yeah, I got back with him because the restraining order doesnt protect my daughter and at least I would be there..."

Sometimes it comes down to worse case scenario.  Do you leave your child with these fuckers unprotected or do you take the beating so the child doesnt. 

P.S.  She didnt get the restraining order for her little girl. = (



BlackPhx -> RE: What is it? (2/25/2008 7:51:59 AM)

You missed another joy that I have had to deal with when I worked as a counselor:
Can't move out of state or even across state as it would deny the abusing parent visitation rights.
Never mind that that parent was abusing you and the child.
Never mind that you fear for both your lives and advocates are saying it needs to be done.
Never mind that you cannot get a job to support yourself where you are.
Never mind that the job you have needs to transfer you elsewhere, or downsize you. 
Never mind that your parents or a relative may be the best help you can get right now.

The reason I use parent is it happens to either gender being abused. 

poenkitten



DisenchantedLife -> RE: What is it? (2/25/2008 8:23:13 AM)

quote:

You missed another joy that I have had to deal with when I worked as a counselor:
Can't move out of state or even across state as it would deny the abusing parent visitation rights.


How could I forget.  You can not move more than 30 miles away from your residency.  You must follow the rules that dont protect you, bec ause if you dont the courts will hurt you. 

The point of the thread wasn't about why they "stay", as imo thats a no brainer.  But how they got there in the first place.



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