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RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 6:16:23 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		FR

You reek of desperation, I'd suspect that you are drawing the desperate to you and you are blind to the warning signs that present themselves.

Personally, I wouldn't come near you for fear of being smothered.  But then again, I've never been abused.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 6:55:42 AM   
SayaNereida


Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:


What advice do you give a master when he must deal with this woman, her struggle, and the uncertainty of her committment to the relationship?


Loveisallyouneed,

First I would say if you feel as you write, that you must 'deal with' this woman, you are starting from a negative place.

IF you are in fact looking to assist rather than 'deal with', I would say give her time, patience, understanding, be what and who you are so that she may know that you and the relationship are that which she wishes to submit.

Relationships aren't 'dealt with' they are cultivated.
What are you doing to cultivate her desire to have a relationship with you?
What are you doing to cultivate her desire to submit?

Submisson and the relationship, getting to that, is all part of the journey, enjoy the steps to get there rather than rushing to the destination.

Saya



_____________________________

Anais Nin: Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. ...


(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 7:09:18 AM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SayaNereida

quote:


What advice do you give a master when he must deal with this woman, her struggle, and the uncertainty of her committment to the relationship?


Loveisallyouneed,

First I would say if you feel as you write, that you must 'deal with' this woman, you are starting from a negative place.



I wouldn't know anyone who relishes the idea of dealing with a woman who is struggling with her desire to submit.

I'm sure most, if not all, would prefer a woman who has resolved that struggle before he comes into her life, and she has reached a point where she is now simply looking for a man worthy of what she has to give.

I can't say that I enjoy being the one to whom a submissive gives her conflicted desires.

I would rather a woman who knows who she is, what she needs in life, and is seeking the right man for her.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to SayaNereida)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 7:31:35 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Your "poor thing" would imply that a master cannot be abused. Stupid notion, for certainly a master can be abused emotionally. Hell, in a lot of places he can be black-mailed.

Bob,
You speak of an enabling Dom, or at least one so lacking confidence in his ability to determine the sincerity of his potential partner that he takes on ANY partner who is willing to spend more than a few minutes with him. By its nature this will generate 'relationships' with very demanding and, in my opinion DOMINATING, submissives. That must be who you are attracting.

Add to the equation false aggrandizement and representations. I know of some people so insecure in who they really are that they would put in their profile false representations such as creating terms they believe will give them credibility. I've even seen some claim to have come up with the reference to submission as a 'Gift'. How insecure they must be!

But who would they attract? Fools who would believe him/her, or people who think the 'Story of O' is a documentary. Yeah those people may come to visit for a few weeks, but they are never what they represent. Then again I think you'd agree, neither is the person making such a ridiculous claim. I guess people get what they deserve.

"Blackmailed"? How? In my prior failed relationships my "blame" was squarely on my shoulders. I didn't ask enough questions. I didn't see what was being shown. I compromised. I thought I could 'change' someone. The common ground? I saw the fault mine. But "blackmail" requires shame in who and what I am - that hasn't ever happened to me. Has it for you? Are you ashamed on some level about your desires and needs, and as a result would be blackmailed, emotionally or pragmatically, should your nature be exposed? Perhaps that's the part of yourself that needs to be addressed.

First you have to have confidence in yourself and be happy with yourself and what you are today. Every life has experience with all the emotions. You aren't unique. You aren't even 'rare'. Your choice to use experiences as crutches attracts people who see that self applied 'handicap' as an opportunity. That opportunity can be to abuse you, or use you. Either way its you who enabled them to do so.
quote:

Fortunately there are others here who more than make up for it.

THANKS! beth and I appreciate that thought.

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 8:43:23 AM   
SayaNereida


Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I wouldn't know anyone who relishes the idea of dealing with a woman who is struggling with her desire to submit.

I'm sure most, if not all, would prefer a woman who has resolved that struggle before he comes into her life, and she has reached a point where she is now simply looking for a man worthy of what she has to give.

I can't say that I enjoy being the one to whom a submissive gives her conflicted desires.

I would rather a woman who knows who she is, what she needs in life, and is seeking the right man for her.


Not to sound harsh or rude, all due respect intended, but it seems to me in saying this is what you desire, she does not meet these desires, you are already seeing/saying that you two are not a match.

< Message edited by SayaNereida -- 2/25/2008 8:45:51 AM >

_____________________________

Anais Nin: Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. ...


(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 8:48:38 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:



(on edit: keep in mind this is a loving relationship we're speaking of, not a casual fling. In this relationship, love, trust, committment, faith are all integral parts, they all play a part in deciding when to stay and when to quit).



You can't make a decision to stay with someone who wants to end the relationship.

That is an element of control one does not have... if you feel love for someone, when it doesn't work, the most loving thing you can do is to wish them well and then let go.

Here is the thing....it is true that you can make square pegs fit into round holes...provided that you hit them with a big enough hammer...but in the end they aren't square pegs anymore.

To hold onto that which doesn't work does damage to the other person and you....and that is obsession; NOT love or devotion.

.

Love, by its nature, extends hope and trust and faith in the one loved. As long as one I love is still trying to address her issues, I cannot see me saying it is over.

But should she give up trying, or in the attempts she makes she ends up worse off than before she tried, then it is more obvious that the relationship we'd initially discussed is not going to happen.

But it is difficult to make that judgment as long as the mixed messages continue.


my question for you...

When you are in the midst of this how objective are you able to be?
Is it possible that the mixed messages you are receiving are a by-product of you seeking out glimmers of hope re: the viability of the situation that aren't there?

Perhaps her ambiguity is truly an indication that she either is not ready to submit or that she is unable to submit to you.



(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 9:14:42 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Don't attempt to provide more help than you would be willing to accept in coming to terms with dominance.


I'm not sure how I'd accomplish that.

I have no desire to be dominated, and there is nothing that would help me come to terms with being dominated (especially in the context we are discussing here).

And I've never been physically abused. Thus I lack the background of those whom I've known. Seems to me this would also change the degree and nature of the help required.

quote:


Plenty of people struggle with coming to terms with their sadism and desire to dominate and own others.


I don't see the relevance of that statement to the topic in hand.

I won't deny some have difficulties with that, but I am speaking of how a master might best address the needs of a submissive who is fighting her desire to submit. Fighting not because the master has done anything abusive or disrespectful, but rather fighting her desire to submit because of the many reasons provided in the "Fighting Submission" thread.




It has little, if anything, to do with having been physically abused. My point is that the struggle to come to terms with submission is no greater or harder than the struggle to terms with one's inner sadist. I have seen it commented over and over that tops/doms/masters/whatever have had to overcome their belief that they can not hurt the ones they love.

An owner should not attempt to provide any more help than they would be willing to accept in overcoming their own struggle with dominance. Basically - You don't need to hold her hand and I'm not sure you should provide any help other than being a sounding board.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 12:41:23 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		"An owner should not attempt to provide any more help than they would be willing to accept in overcoming their own struggle with dominance. Basically - You don't need to hold her hand and I'm not sure you should provide any help other than being a sounding board. "

This is sound advice to me .. and makes perfect sense ... but so does many of the things you have said Bob .. and it comes down to needing to decide what works for each of us ....



_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 1:29:38 PM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

When you are in the midst of this how objective are you able to be?



How objective is anyone at the best of times? We each see the world and all in it through the lens of our life experience, our beliefs, our hopes and fears.

If indeed we each have our own unique point of view, it is because there is no such thing as an objective point of view.

quote:


Is it possible that the mixed messages you are receiving are a by-product of you seeking out glimmers of hope re: the viability of the situation that aren't there?


If that were the case she wouldn't be sending mixed messages and I wouldn't be receiving any. What you are suggesting is the clutching of straws, and if anything I default to patience and caution in a situation like this.

Indeed, it is when I have doubts she would rish in demanding attention. When I would wax enthusiasm she would be pessimistic. It was almost a dance where she attempted to maintain the same emotional/psychological distance: not too close and not too far.

quote:


Perhaps her ambiguity is truly an indication that she either is not ready to submit or that she is unable to submit to you.


In the end that was what I concluded.



_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 1:33:22 PM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

It has little, if anything, to do with having been physically abused.



True perhaps for you and the people you know, but certainly you do not speak for everyone.

I've known women who were physically abused and the abuse certainly affected their ability to trust.



_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 1:34:48 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		How long did this " dance " take ? ...... a few months ?

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 1:35:04 PM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

"An owner should not attempt to provide any more help than they would be willing to accept in overcoming their own struggle with dominance. Basically - You don't need to hold her hand and I'm not sure you should provide any help other than being a sounding board. "

This is sound advice to me .. and makes perfect sense ... but so does many of the things you have said Bob .. and it comes down to needing to decide what works for each of us ....


I agree.

Certainly there is a fair share of people who involvement in bdsm is casual at best.

There are others who are much more involved.

Some do it for love, others do not.

I am sure it is as difficult for the casual players to fathom me as it is for me to fathom them.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to MissHarlet)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 1:38:10 PM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

How long did this " dance " take ? ...... a few months ?


From the end of December till the beginning of this month.

Even since then there have been incidents where we talked and the dance continued.

Our courtship started in August and really picked up steam at the beginning of October.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to MissHarlet)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 2:02:20 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

It gives me a headache

Jeff

omfg yes... but sometimes people really do go through enough ego deflation that they are willing to consider and accept advice from others.  I've seen it happen.  Bottom line for the OP: Is it worth it to you to be unhappy and alone, so you can always be RIGHT?


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 2:09:42 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

It has little, if anything, to do with having been physically abused.



True perhaps for you and the people you know, but certainly you do not speak for everyone.

I've known women who were physically abused and the abuse certainly affected their ability to trust.




i am probably going to regret making this reply, but i had to address the sentiment stated here. i have been abused in a variety of manner, however because i CHOSE to deal with the results of those abuses and didn't look for someone else to "fix" me, what i have to present to potential Dominants is a mostly whole (i don't believe anyone can ever claim to be totally whole, but that's just my opinion) and emotionally stable submissive who is not hindered in her ability to trust that Dominant.

There is a Dominant who is an extremely good friend of mine who had to take a long hard look at the type of women that He was (a) attracting and (b) attracted to when He saw a recurring inability for those relationships to  last or to be emotionally healthy. He decided that the common denominator was Him and so He has dealt with His need to fix or to rescue and is now in a relationship with a different type of woman than He has ever dated and it is now working.

The points that many have tried to make are covered in both of the preceding paragraphs. A.) Someone who has been abused needs to heal and not carry the effects of that abuse into future relationships otherwise that abuse will affect his or her ability to trust and form a healthy new relationship. B.) No one can heal someone else; it must be done by the individual who needs healing and others around them can only offer support while the person himself or herself does the work of healing. And C.) If a person keeps attracting the same type over and over again, the first place that person needs to look is at the man in the mirror.

heartfeltsub

*edited to fix a typo

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 2/25/2008 2:13:15 PM >

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 2:14:09 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Red?  see the post diectly above yours...:) I was here for the last go around. Maybe I am just cranky today..:)

Jeff

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 2:23:08 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Have you ever tried to have a conversation with a schizophrenic whose meds need tweaking? They use sentences, you know, nouns and verbs and all, but it just doesn't quite make sense. Sometimes they'll make a connection with one or two nouns that you used, and take off with those, usually in a circular direction.  

Feels just like this. 

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 2:55:57 PM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		It would seem the number of people whose emotional maturity is incapable of handling the topic, as well as those who are just dying to try out their newly earned Armchair Psychiatry degree are on the increase.

I'll check in again later and see if anyone with greater intellect/maturity has contributed something to the base of knowledge.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 3:10:51 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Being childish and dumb, I can't help noticing the OP didn't answer my question.

Is having a positive, healthy relationship more important than being unquestioned and right?


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 2/25/2008 3:24:25 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		Folks, if you can't keep the insults and personal attacks out of your replies, please don't bother to reply. 

Thank you.

XI


_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 80
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