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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 7:24:02 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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LadyEllen:

Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Oil and coal are last century's tech, and its best for all if we move forward with something else entirely.

And this is also precisely why we don't have to fight over resources we don't actually need at the high levels claimed. And also why even if "peak oil" has occurred, it doesn't really matter.

Our governments seem hell-bent on propping up market interests that have already served their purposes and should now gracefully diminish in importance.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 7:48:53 AM   
Mercnbeth


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~ FAST REPLY ~
 
Amazing, the very people complaining about the US not being energy self reliant are the same people whose protests stop offshore oil exploration, stop drilling in the vast reserves of Alaska, and prevent the contraction of any nuclear power plants. Hypocrites!

Meanwhile, the fail to appreciate that converting to ethanol would require 100% of current farmland to be used to produce corn - supported by the way, by the huge CORPORATE farms. Nor do they consider that any electrically powered vehicle would need energy produced by power plants using the same oil/gas/coal resources that are being used in the form of gas to power cars now. The beneficiary of all this conversion? Why CORPORATIONS who love to manipulate the ignorant into believing there is a benifit from using 100 gallons of oil to produce electricity enough to power a car the same distance that currently could be covered in 35 gallons of gas pumped directly into the tank of a 'gas guzzler'. Adding, as someone else pointed out, lead to the equation. Fortunatly I have a good broker who is producing great results from investing into the fool's mission.

Similar to the fools who bought houses they couldn't afford based on increasing income in a job designed for obsolescence; people lie and rationalize to themselves, because they can't deal with reality. They prefer to worship an icon and believe by faith such fiction as 'global warming' which officially ended yesterday based upon
quote:

Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.
Source: http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm 


One year is all it took for all the 'trends' and doom to fix themselves. The world caught up to that 1 degrees average rise in temperature we've been experiencing over the past 100 years. Tell me, will all the regulations, many directly impacting the OP's 'Stagflation', be withdrawn now? Will the global warming messiah give back his Nobel prize? Will he at least say he was wrong? Doubt it - the M.O. for people is they can never be wrong or say they are sorry, because (all together now group) "We had GOOD intent!" Do they realize that a cooling planet is MUCH more impacting and dangerous than any 'warming' effect? The world blossomed the last time you could grow wine grapes in England. The last time it was covered in ice - the people there, and in the rest of the world, didn't do so well.

Reading only those publishing from one side of the argument tends to lead the sheep in one direction. They deserve their fate of bing shorn and slaughter, while their sheppard retires in grandure from the money wasted chasing spectors created to fool them. The result is they support the very corporations they think they are fighting against, becoming poorer, less in control of their own destiny, to the point of being manipulated into wanting a benevolent 'nanny' to take care of them. Willing to give away the very freedom of choice and rational thought that would solve many of the things they see as problems. As I said - AMAZING!

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 8:37:51 AM   
xBullx


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-fast reply-

This is simply about fuel and apathetic complacency; like the last uncontrolled inflationary cycle, the one attributed to Carter that Sinergy seems to be in denial of, this is spawned by the one thing that none of us can do without, the one thing that effects each and everyone of our lives in the modern industrial age. That dreaded black gold, Texas tea.

Fuel effects the price of everything, absolutely everything. Everything we have today uses oil somewhere in the production or delivery phase. Now the problem is that the production prices have rose exponentially. That has to do with several factors; wars, foreign interests, greed and down right stupidity on all of our parts.

The fact is in business and in the home the last thing to get a pay raise is us. Costs of machine and material must be met; Costs of many things come before the worker. Well as is the case the cost are always passed on and the ironic thing is that these cost are passed on to the consumer that is in the end the people that are no longer making enough money to buy the very products they themselves make. Hence Stagflation ensues.

Now the last time we had this crisis we could have seen into the future and did more than pay lip service to creating alternative fuels and fuel efficient means of operation. But as is typical western hypocrisy we beat our gums together and once our proverbial bandage is applied and things seem to be working again we turn our backs on the labor of finding a real solution. Greed and laziness tend to divert our attention from true resolutions to deep seated problems. We allow ourselves to be distracted from any real solutions by those that profit from our own complacency.

In the early eighties we had cars that made 40 miles to the gallon.  Find one of those now would you. Think about it, while we’re all blaming Carter or now Bush the inventors of patience and chess are reaping the benefits of their plans. The Saudis and others are making more money than God. Just like little drug dealers giving product for free and getting you hooked they sucked us all in and now they not only own your checkbook they have brought the mighty west to its knees. Aren’t we an impressive lot?

Stop looking to blame everyone else, this is the bed we made, we have to sleep in it now until we get off our asses and make a new one.

Trust me folks there’s no miracle cure here, its going to get hard before it gets better. And it will only get better if we pull back on our egos and come to grips with the reality that we will now have to sacrifice, work hard and watch the fuck out of those we allow the privileged to govern.

Back on track, food costs are higher because the feed costs of the food we eat has had a rapid rate increase due to this oil problem as well, the food consumed by our food is cost more to buy from the farmer because the demand has increased. It also costs more to produce the food of the food, simply because tractors and the makers of tractors use fuel in production. It’s a vicious cycle that we could have been working on 3 plus decades ago but complacency on our part and greed by others has us right where the Oil Men want us, where they planned to have us.

Ohhhh, I forgot, while I was distracting you from the real problem I lost track myself; it really isn’t the oil that is the culprit here. It is as it has always been; the same thing it was before the industrial revolution. Greed.

No Sinergy, it wasn’t Carter, he was much too ignorant to reality to have ever done any real harm. He merely provided avenues for the success of failure.

Live well,

Bull


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:18:40 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

-fast reply-

This is simply about fuel and apathetic complacency; like the last uncontrolled inflationary cycle, the one attributed to Carter that Sinergy seems to be in denial of, this is spawned by the one thing that none of us can do without, the one
thing that effects each and everyone of our lives in the modern industrial age. That dreaded black gold, Texas tea.



If you read everything I posted and think I blame much of anything on Carter, I cannot do anything to bring you to an understanding of what I have been posting.

As far as your points about oil, every civilization at the end of it's ability to utilize whatever form the energy comes in has faced similar things, including the rise of messianic and millenialist religions, the rush to warfare to control the last vestiges of this energy source, etc.

We are seeing the end of the Petroleum age.  The Right wing tends to be too obtuse to realize this, and too greedy and hidebound to tradition to want to do anything about it.  Like, for example, figure out a new energy infrastructure.

quote:



No Sinergy, it wasn’t Carter, he was much too ignorant to reality to have ever done any real harm. He merely provided avenues for the success of failure.



Never said it was Carter.  I was making fun of people who on countless threads have blamed Carter for things he had little or no control over.

Call Carter ignorant if you like, but I imagine your choice (the Dipshit in Chief) wont ever win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:22:21 PM   
Sanity


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Didn't they give the Nobel Peace Prize to the guy who invented dynamite?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
Call Carter ignorant if you like, but I imagine your choice (the Dipshit in Chief) wont ever win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sinergy



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:24:33 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Didn't they give the Nobel Peace Prize to the guy who invented dynamite?



Ever dig a stump out of your yard?

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:25:20 PM   
mnottertail


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The guy who invented dynamite WAS Alfred Nobel.

(I am not a winner of the Nobel peace prize, and I do not play one on tv, don't do this at home, somebody will put a fuckin' eye out)

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:28:10 PM   
Sanity


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If they're too big to pull with my truck I use stump-rot, then I burn them. Dynamite might collapse my well, or my neighbors' wells. I have directed massive amounts of field artillery towards quite a few trees and
stumps though. That should count for something...

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:29:14 PM   
mnottertail


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amphenol?  little less hassle but can take down a building in oklahoma, the little plastic coke bottles should send a stump out

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:29:31 PM   
Sanity


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Well, there you go then.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The guy who invented dynamite WAS Alfred Nobel.

(I am not a winner of the Nobel peace prize, and I do not play one on tv, don't do this at home, somebody will put a fuckin' eye out)

Ron


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:30:53 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Didn't they give the Nobel Peace Prize to the guy who invented dynamite?


Sanity,
Not knowing the relevance of removing a tree stump (was that another President Jimmy Carter reference?) actually no - the guy who invented dynamite was Alfred Nobel the INVENTOR of dynamite.

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:34:13 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I should have known that. I don't know how many times I've read it before...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Didn't they give the Nobel Peace Prize to the guy who invented dynamite?


Sanity,
Not knowing the relevance of removing a tree stump (was that another President Jimmy Carter reference?) actually no - the guy who invented dynamite was Alfred Nobel the INVENTOR of dynamite.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:38:16 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Didn't they give the Nobel Peace Prize to the guy who invented dynamite?


Sanity,
Not knowing the relevance of removing a tree stump (was that another President Jimmy Carter reference?) actually no - the guy who invented dynamite was Alfred Nobel the INVENTOR of dynamite.


For those playing the home game, the significance of the stump reference is that dynamite is exceptionally useful for all sorts of things, and I think the inventor deserves to have a prize named after him.

This prize should be given to Jimmy Carter for all the wonderfully humanitarian things he did, and denied the Dipshit in Chief, who killed people and blew things up.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:47:23 PM   
Sanity


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Carter failed miserably when he tried to kill people and blow things up.

Is that why you think he's so deserving?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
This prize should be given to Jimmy Carter for all the wonderfully humanitarian things he did, and denied the Dipshit in Chief, who killed people and blew things up.

Sinergy



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 2:52:16 PM   
luckydog1


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According to Chomsky, Carter is the one who started funding the Mujahdeen against the Soviet backed coup Government, and intentionally got the USSR to invade.   Hardly seems like a Peace Prize deserving action and legacy.  But they admitted it was just a political thing, nothing to do with his actuall acomplishments.

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 3:11:38 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Carter failed miserably when he tried to kill people and blow things up.




Might want to rethink trashing him too badly.  The Dipshit in Chief has set the bar for failing miserably so far above what anybody else has done since Pandora's Box was opened that you Republican's have no horse in this race.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 3:26:17 PM   
pahunkboy


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It is pittiful that  not even 1/2 cars on the road are fuel efficient.    nor is it a co-incidence.

talk of $4 a gallon is low- I think we will see $6 by labor day.

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 3:45:29 PM   
bipolarber


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As long as we're blaming Carter for stuff...

Funding for development of cruise missiles.... under Carter
Kevlar for military use.... Carter
Nightvision tech.... Carter
Predator..... Carter

He was the first President to see that we had an opportunity to utilize high tech to give us a major advantage on the battlefeild... It was also under his admin that we began our paralell development of cyber warfare. At least, he was the first President since the funding of the Manhattan Project, who saw the potential of the emerging new technologies.

As long as you're blaming him, be sure to blame him for the 11th hour release of our hostages. Regan took the credit, but Carter did all the work. (Fucking oportunist Republican dickhead Regan was, he perpetuated the myth that it was fear of him that caused them to be released. In fact, it was a six month long backdoor negotiation on the part of the Dems that got them home.)

I suppose if McCain gets in, his solution will be the same as Nixon's. A price freeze... which will only cause a huge jump in prices when it comes off, like it did then.

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 4:03:55 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Carter failed miserably when he tried to kill people and blow things up.

Might want to rethink trashing him too badly.  The Dipshit in Chief has set the bar for failing miserably so far above what anybody else has done since Pandora's Box was opened that you Republican's have no horse in this race.
Sinergy


Well if it's important to you to argue that President Carter is the 2nd worse President this country has ever had instead of the 1st - I'll be first to stipulate to that. However as the worst EX president he has no equal. Debating placement position for historical figures can be fun, but never productive. His leadership skills, usually a criteria for an effective presidency speak for themselves.

On a subject he was absolutely correct, energy self sufficiency, he didn't have the leadership skills to effect. President Kennedy has similar expertise regarding getting to the moon, yet his leadership and vision got us there. President Carter was clueless in that regard and wrapped himself in a sweater of insecurity and inaction.

I'm grateful for few things coming from Iran, but thanks to them the US didn't have to suffer through yet another four years of, 20% prime interest rates and a leader who's leadership was best defined by what he couldn't do. He couldn't get the hostages out of Iran, couldn't stop the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan, couldn't stage a successful attack of Iran who invaded US sovereignty (the Embassy), couldn't let us drive faster than 55, and couldn't send the Olympic team to Moscow.

This embarrassment to the country has gone out of the way to support the Castro dictatorship in Cuba. Oversaw the Haiti elections, against the wishes of his fellow Democrat President Clinton, which was quickly follow by a coup. Described Marshal Tito as "a man who believes in human rights". Found Kim Il-Sung former dictator of N. Korea as a "vigorous, intelligent, surprisingly well-informed". And said of Manual Noriega, Nicoli Ceaucescu and Yasser Arafat "Our goals are the same: to have a just system of economics and politics".

Regarding President Carter's Nobel prize. This best describes the circumstance:
quote:

Gunnar Berge, chairman of the five-member committee, told reporters that giving the Peace Prize to Carter "must also be seen as criticism of the line the current U.S. administration has taken on Iraq ... It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States."
("How can we REALLY show how much we hate the Americans? I know! Let's give a Nobel Prize to Jimmy Carter!") Source: http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200408310659 


quote:

The late Democratic Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan summed it up when he said of Carter in 1980, "Unable to distinguish between our friends and our enemies, he has essentially adopted our enemies' view of the world." 


Much of this information comes from that bastion of 'conservative' news [sarcasm ] the SF Chronicle  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/12/13/cstillwell.DTL 

As the author Cinnamon Stillwell said so well in the article:
quote:

Despite the overwhelming evidence of failure, Carter has become something of a sacred cow to many liberals, who often express outrage when their hero is criticized. But no one who inserts himself into the public sphere is above criticism. And how quickly Carter's fans forget the malaise that gripped the nation under his presidency. My own childhood memories of the time consist mostly of long lines snaking around gas stations due to the embargo on Iranian oil, not to mention a general feeling in the country of want and hopelessness. Carter may have inherited a recession, but his presidency did little to improve the weak economy. This was among the reasons that he lost re-election to Ronald Reagan in 1980. Yet somehow Carter's presidency is still held up by some as a shining example for the current leadership to follow.


This should be required reading before any of Mr. Nobel's dynamite is used to create another face on Mt. Rushmore.

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RE: Stagflation looming? - 2/27/2008 4:09:54 PM   
xBullx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Call Carter ignorant if you like, but I imagine your choice (the Dipshit in Chief) wont ever win a Nobel Peace Prize.



My choice?

Oh and I knew what you were saying about Carter, don't get your dander up. And that prize won't make up for all his fuck ups as President, but you gotta lean on what you can.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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