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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 6:13:34 AM

lronitulstahp

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i liked David Stein's essay on "What Masters Need" as well

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 6:15:10 AM

RedMagic1

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TYVM, Archer, I agree that is much better. Here's one part of a sentence I pulled out that seems relevant to a lot of threads going on right now.

the lesson i'm trying to convey is that slaves need to look out for ourselves in terms of making sure that our needs for direction, discipline, and service get fulfilled.

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 6:23:59 AM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

The need for unconditional love and acceptance.

A slave Needs that? there are quite a few here who would disagree . I don't mean to sound cranky...ok maybe I do..:). This list strikes me as a Harlequin Romance list of slaves needs.

Jeff

maybe that is phrased a bit too broadly. i need acceptance, yes. There are things in my nature...compulsory things, that when viewed by mainstream society would be labled"sick or warped". To have a Master understand, accept, and in fact desire those things...that kind of acceptance is liberating. But i doubt unconditional...as far as love...that, in some ways is less important than the acceptance.
my point is...one can take these broad statments...dissect, and "copy paste" what works for them. In that respect, it's always nice to see such a list and find one's own take on them..But we should be wary to declare anyone else's list as a sort of BDSM scripture.

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 6:26:15 AM

joy2u

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Fast Reply:

There's a difference between someone having needs (which every living being has) and being "needy".

needy
      adj 1: poor enough to need help from others [syn: destitute, impoverished, indigent]
     2: demanding or needing attention, affection, or reassurance to an excessive degree

1 : being in want : poverty-stricken <needy families>
2 : marked by want of affection, attention, or emotional support <emotionally needy>

neediness -   n
1: a state of extreme poverty [syn: privation, want, deprivation, neediness]
2: the quality of needing attention and affection and reassurance to a marked degree

Also, characterizing someone as being needy is very subjective. A person with a list of needs (even a long one) might be seen as needy by one person and be seen by another person as simply someone with clearly defined requirements who is open and honest about them.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 6:31:48 AM

sweetnurseBBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I much prefer the essay by slave david stein "What slaves Need".
because I respect the man and his copyright (and don't want to run afoul of TOS) I'm not going to reproduce it here.
But hopefully the Mods will leave the link her so people can go read it to compare.

http://www.mastertaino.com/slaves_needs.htm

But he lists 3 need areas:
Direction
Discipline (using the definition that usually goes along with the term self discipline)
Service

I enjoyed that and it is more practical and realistic. It covers more ground and just doesn't list things.

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 7:05:46 AM

joy2u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I much prefer the essay by slave david stein "What slaves Need".

But he lists 3 need areas:
Direction
Discipline (using the definition that usually goes along with the term self discipline)
Service

It was the lack of these 3 vital (for me) elements from my previous D/s relationships that always left me feeling frustrated and unfulfilled and searching for something else. It was finally recognizing these needs in me that made me realize that the type of relationship i was seeking wasn't a D/s one but, a M/s one.

Thank you, Archer, for posting the link to slave david stein's article. He is a very fine writer.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 8:16:40 AM

Aileen1968

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I'm not a list person. I know that something is working when I find myself smiling all of the time. It's as simple as that for me.

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:03:03 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

The need for unconditional love and acceptance.

A slave Needs that? there are quite a few here who would disagree . I don't mean to sound cranky...ok maybe I do..:). This list strikes me as a Harlequin Romance list of slaves needs.

Jeff

That was one of the items that didn't work for me. I didn't need his love but I love that I have it. Acceptance was another story. He's the first person in my world to have accepted me, and it was critically important, else I would not have been able to splay myself open as I do - mentally and emotionally as well as physically. I never realized how important Acceptance is until I finally had it.

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:10:10 AM

Jeffff

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I understand..... I did say I was cranky..:)

When I read the list I kept waiting the see, " My pendulous bosom heaved as he looked into my eyes" " As my secret cleft filled with the warmth that slave can only know when she has found her one," " FabioDom picked me up and took my heart"

RomanceMaster

I am now gonna go take my crankiness out on the fuckers who, " work" for me..:)

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 2/28/2008 9:12:07 AM >

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:17:04 AM

lronitulstahp

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pendulous bosom.....check
secret cleft......umm...well the secret has been out for some time...
no wonder i have no FabioDom

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:18:07 AM

CalifChick

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Oh myyyyyyyyy.

Okay, I cannot do that with a straight face.

Cali
(secretly wishing Jeff would find her "secret cleft")

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:19:40 AM

Leatherist

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At least you will never have to be on the lookout for attack geese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7w4dpxgSWA

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 2/28/2008 9:20:13 AM >

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:25:47 AM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

At least you will never have to be on the lookout for attack geese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7w4dpxgSWA

look don't judge my kink ok...i happen to think geese edge play is HAWTTT!!!

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 9:46:18 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I understand..... I did say I was cranky..:)

When I read the list I kept waiting the see, " My pendulous bosom heaved as he looked into my eyes" " As my secret cleft filled with the warmth that slave can only know when she has found her one," " FabioDom picked me up and took my heart"

RomanceMaster

I am now gonna go take my crankiness out on the fuckers who, " work" for me..:)

You forgot the alabaster, creamy skin.

Good luck to your workers!

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 10:18:40 AM

brainiacsub

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It really makes me sad when I read stuff like this. It didn't bother me so much that this was yet another list. Lists are good. They serve as reminders when I go to the grocery store; they help me organize and prioritize my thoughts and activities for the day; in the bdsm world they can be very effective communication tools. The problem I had with this particular list was that it reinforced every negative stereotype faced by submissive women specifically and kinky folk in general. The vanilla world and the psychiatric community would have a field day with this list and see it as yet one more example of 'proof' that submissive women

are weak and require someone to think for them
suffer from low self esteem and poor self image requiring someone else to validate them
are incapable of taking responsibility for their own lives and actions
need someone to care for them because they cannot take care of themselves
masquarade submission as co-dependence
view the world through the eyes of their inner child
have an arrested emotional development of around 12 yrs
have fractured psyches due to past abuse and neglect
use the trappings of bdsm to perpetuate past abuse, both physical and emotional
use bdsm as therapy for past abuse, both physical and emotional
are doormats
blah, blah, blah

There were certain things within this list that resonated very strongly with me, but the poor choice of words and expression of ideas far outweighed the values presented in the sentiments.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 2/28/2008 10:20:28 AM >

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 10:26:14 AM

SubmissiveAK

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Well I for one really like the list, it fits very well with what I have been wanting to express to potential dominants but unable to form the words for. I hope you all do not mind if I adopt it for myself TYVM

As for the OP: Thank you, these words are beautiful

~submissiveAK~

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 10:26:42 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

It really makes me sad when I read stuff like this. It didn't bother me so much that this was yet another list. Lists are good. They serve as reminders when I go to the grocery store; they help me organize and prioritize my thoughts and activities for the day; in the bdsm world they can be very effective communication tools. The problem I had with this particular list was that it reinforced every negative stereotype faced by submissive women specifically and kinky folk in general. The vanilla world and the psychiatric community would have a field day with this list and see it as yet one more example of 'proof' that submissive women

are weak and require someone to think for them

suffer from low self esteem and poor self image requiring someone else to validate them

are incapable of taking responsibility for their own lives and actions

need someone to care for them because they cannot take care of themselves

masquarade submission as co-dependence

view the world through the eyes of their inner child

have an arrested emotional development of around 12 yrs

have fractured psyches due to past abuse and neglect

use the trappings of bdsm to perpetuate past abuse, both physical and emotional

use bdsm as therapy for past abuse, both physical and emotional

are doormats

blah, blah, blah

There were certain things within this list that resonated very strongly with me, but the poor choice of words and expression of ideas far outweighed the values presented in the sentiments.

Wow, this is the first list that DIDN'T make me think all those things! It's fascinating the difference in how we see things, isn't it?! It's the only list I've seen that I like, and I'm none of those things above (except the doormat, when he needs to wipe his feet

).

Maybe it's the mood I'm in lately or something...the list made me feel squishy.

It made me think of all the ways he insists that I rely on my inner strength and think quickly on my feet.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or criticize your post in any way, btw. I just loved the differences in how oppositely (is that a word?) two people view the same list.

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 10:40:09 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I am with Brainiac, I see that list as a description of a person who can't function in the outside world. And, not a reflection of any of the female subs that I know. You can believe that I wouldn't choose a girl who needed alllllll that described in just that way.

Unconditional love comes from our companion animals. Except in my case, since I have a grey parrot. I would rather have the respect and understanding that comes from sincere love, than the "unconditional" love that can tag along with dislike and incompatibility. (just speaking from experience, YMMV)

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 10:56:31 AM

sweetwenchie

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~fast reply~

the only thing i "need" today is a good beating

The list is nice for those who feel it suits them, those of us who do not feel the same sentimental pull towards it can disregard it. To each their own, whatever works for them, and so on and so on ad naseum...

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RE: "The Needs of a Slave" - 2/28/2008 11:01:24 AM

joy2u

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i agree with you, LadyHibiscus, and with Brainiac, as well. Reading that list made me think of someone who is insecure and needing to hear, see, or feel reassured that she/he is "Okay" and a "good little slave" to her/his Master.

i'm not criticizing others, who do have those needs. i mean, if that's what someone needs, then, by all means, they should have it. But, as for me, i don't need to hear my Master tell me what a good slave i am or that i am accepted by Him. i know i am accepted by Him and that i please Him, otherwise He wouldn't have me here.

i learned to accept myself long ago and that's good enough for me.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am with Brainiac, I see that list as a description of a person who can't function in the outside world. And, not a reflection of any of the female subs that I know. You can believe that I wouldn't choose a girl who needed alllllll that described in just that way.

Unconditional love comes from our companion animals. Except in my case, since I have a grey parrot. I would rather have the respect and understanding that comes from sincere love, than the "unconditional" love that can tag along with dislike and incompatibility. (just speaking from experience, YMMV)

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