RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (Full Version)

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MasterWilliam55 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:15:15 AM)

I start off by listening. A bit of talk about family, vanilla interests and so on. I ask questions to keep the conversation moving. Surprisingly enough many subs are reticent to talk about themselves. Once she opens up a bit, she usually feels more at ease asking me a few questions. We get into lifestyle interests eventually and talk about the kinds of relationships we're looking for and how we see ourselves fitting in to the lifestyle. It doesn't take long and soon we're talking about what we like, dislike, limits etc. In a more mature relationship, expressing yourself clearly and above all listening in key.




Archer -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:17:18 AM)

I would contend that one of the very first consensous items that have to be reached to decide if you are a good fit or not would be the discussion of personal values. Not just listing them out but actually hashing out the meanings you each have for them. The stories about why those values became so important to you. Because what I want on day one might be adjusted by a new perspective given through discussing values. The importance of a value might shift a little based on the situation faced.
(ie kidlettes or other family obligations) If there are no family obligations on the D side but there are on the s side then taking the family thing into account might cause the D to shift the hierarchy of values.

Once both sides have put forth their values and the peoplehave reached at least an understanding of where they are in the other person's head. Then further discussions become easier.




Justme696 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:18:15 AM)

If you communicate..then you have no questions  :P




BoiJen -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:22:57 AM)

One would think that if you communicate you'd have more questions.




RCdc -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:23:04 AM)

You communicate by being honest about yourself with your SO and listening to your so and hearing what they are saying and not second guessing instead.
 
You can communicate all you want, but if the SO isn't listening or wanting to hear, it's pointless.  You need both to gain structure.
 
You compromise, regardless of whether love enters the equasion.
When you compromise you accept something that might not be what you want, but what is best.
You can negociate all you want, but when do, you compromise, compromising means you might not get what you think you want right now, but you get what you need as an end result.  Negociation cannot happen without compromise - to try and seperate the two or make one about love and the other about just being is semantics and naive.
 
Communication is laying cards on the table honestly and having them seen and understood.
Communication isn't poker.
 
the.dark.




Leatherist -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:25:14 AM)

Understanding often consists of seeing an attraction that might have escaped you in other circumstances. And being able to stretch yourself enough to comprehend why that is also valid-even if it's not your view of attractive.




Justme696 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:31:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

One would think that if you communicate you'd have more questions.


yes and answered




chezzy52 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:32:15 AM)

I think it is splitting hairs.I see no difference in negotiating and compromise.They pretty much go hand in hand.The Domina of course is fully in charge of the negotiating as Lady Hathor pointed out and some things are not negotiable and that must be understood from the outset.But the things that are negotiable a compromised is usually reached and it shouldn't favor the submissive but it should be close.When all the cards are laid on the table then both can move forward and hopefully begin a fruitful,loving relationship.I am always confused when i read"a sub must anticipate my needs".Well my thought is,if you communicated everything from the beginning,then i don't have to anticipate..just follow the guidelines and the world becomes a beautiful place.I mentioned in another thread about being able to mesh and that is all this is..negotiations are set and a compromise is reached on all negotiable subjects..you mesh these with ideas perhaps asked for perhaps not on other areas of the relationship..I personally would never question a Domina's authority..but i would wish to be allowed to know or understand why she wants this or that if only for the simple fact i want to know my Domina inside and out.For Chrissakes if she gets a menstrual cramp..i want to feel it.Now are all days going to be perfect...???Hardly and that is a fantasy unto itself.But as long as the lines of communication are open and that both realize that as much as we love this lifestyle,the vanilla side of the coin will always be present..that is a given.




MasterWilliam55 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:36:58 AM)

You have a very narrow definition of communicating. What happened to "what sports do you like?" or What kind of work do you do?", "Hi, my name is Mike, what's yours?". "Do you like sailing". "How was your day". Did you get to the clinic today"  It's verbal dynamics require questions, unless of course your lecturing.

During hard play I make it a point to ask if my submissive is ok.

I can't magine communications without questions.





Justme696 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 11:50:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

You have a very narrow definition of communicating. What happened to "what sports do you like?" or What kind of work do you do?", "Hi, my name is Mike, what's yours?". "Do you like sailing". "How was your day". Did you get to the clinic today"  It's verbal dynamics require questions, unless of course your lecturing.

During hard play I make it a point to ask if my submissive is ok.

I can't magine communications without questions.




give me your definition of communication. Does it have to be a long definition..to be a good definition?

I don't ask examples..I can give plenty...just want to know what communication is.

quote:

hat happened to "what sports do you like?" or What kind of work do you do?", "Hi, my name is Mike, what's yours?". "Do you like sailing". "How was your day". Did you get to the clinic today"  It's verbal dynamics require questions, unless of course your lecturing.


of course....but I call this communucation...
Questions are communications...answering to. I just didn't give examples.... But if you have a partner....communicate..and you get answers. If not...wrong partner.

sorry if I  sound short tempered..I am tired...it is not meant this way




AquaticSub -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:11:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I'm gonna disagree. Compromise isneeded in a romantic relationship...not in a power dynamic. Compromise is about not getting what you want...it's about giving things up so somebody else is happier with the siuation. Compromise is about equality...and while I think equality is good and all...D/s is about balance not equality. Negotiation is working within eachother's boundaries to get the most of what you want...it's about the win/win...and about all parties coming out of the situation happier.


And who says a relationship can't be both romantic and a power dynamic, hmm? Yours isn't, but that statement smacks of "one true way". For that matter, I don't think any dominant is going to get whatever they want whenever they want.

Over the past few days Valyraen wanted sex, I was very sick. He held off partly because I was sick and to let me heal and partly because he didn't want to get sick himself. He got what he wanted in that he didn't get sick but he didn't the sex. He compromised what he wanted. Other dominants and masters have given examples where they compromised, deciding against what they wanted until a later date, or deciding that the sub they had was worth never engaging in a type of play if brought on a negative response or deciding that the sub they have is worth engaging in a type of play every now and then because it makes them happy.

The ability to successfully compromise and have everyone honestly happy is a good ability in all relationships, be they family relationships, vanilla, workplace or BDSM.




MasterWilliam55 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:11:40 PM)

Communications is a process that allows follks to exchange information using several methods ie Questions and Answers, body language, and statements (lecturing). It requires feedback, often in the form of a question to illicit clarity.

Just a note. Questions on their own, often reveal more than the answer.




Justme696 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:12:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

Just a note. Questions on their own, often reveal more than the answer.


that is truely wishdom




AquaticSub -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:16:51 PM)

~Fast Reply~

Valyraen and I decided very early on that we would be honest with each other and we've made that a core tenet of our relationship. Nothing is hidden, though we may tell each other that they don't want to know. We just talk and listen all the time. I'm free to say whatever I like, as long as I make an effort to keep it respectful, and I never have any reason to fear telling him an unpleasent truth.

We make sure that we understand what the other one is really saying, not just what we think they are saying. We talk, ask questions and listen to the answers. We joke a lot, snuggle... we are just honestly always talking and we can talk about anything.




MasterWilliam55 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:34:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

One would think that if you communicate you'd have more questions.


yes and answered


What???? This statement contradicts your previous one. I'm confused.





MasterWilliam55 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:36:06 PM)

What exactly Is wishdom??




Justme696 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:45:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

What exactly Is wishdom??


I guess you ask me, instead of yourself ;)
The part I quoted




BlackPhx -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 12:55:09 PM)

quote:


I mean healthy people don't go head long into something without making sure they're going into it with the right person


If that were true there would be fewer people sitting in divorce courts. Instead we are at 53% marriage failure I think that was the last figure I saw. Some of those relationships dissolve after far too many years for it to be said that they weren't sure they were going into it with the right person.

As for Master and I, there is no negotiation when it comes to our relationship, and none for my relationship with someone I own. There are however Discussions, where I can put forth my point of view, feelings, etc about something freely and respectfully. He then makes his decision based on his thoughts, and what I have had to say. Sometimes he may alter his course of action, or modify it, but ultimately he makes the decision. this holds for all aspects of our life.

Right now we are shopping for replacement windows. We discussed it and my feeling was that we needed at least 3 independent contractor estimates (with different windows as well) and one from the local DIY store. He had originally thought 2 would suffice along with the DIY. He ordered me to contact 3 contractors, and the DIY store and set up the appointments, but included that I was to research the windows they offer, the cost of them, the warranties, permit costs, any pending law suits against manufacturer, and search for any consumer forums or reports on them  as well so that we would have ALL of the information possible. We are now discussing the 2 most suitable brands, costs and he will make his final decision based on having all of the facts to hand.

So what does this have to do with the dynamic of M/s in our relationship? Simple. Concieve, Research, Discuss, Decide, same steps for anything we do in the bedroom as well. there are things that I enjoy that he has never done, he has no problem going there, but prefers to make an informed decision and that does include input about my experiences with it as well. There are things he wants to do that have always been limits for me..we discuss it, the problems that may arise from it and what can be done to limit any potential problems, then he makes his decision, yes or no as to whether we are going to go ahead, whether I am willing or not. The discussion allows him to know how I am feeling about something, what fears I may have and allows him to decide how he is going to address that. He may decide that he isn't going to do it now, or that he will, but at least he goes into it fully informed and ready for whatever it muight draw out of me, or him.

There is no compromise. Ultimately the decision lies in his hand and he is the one who will have to deal with the consequences if it blows up. Well to be honest I will as well, to a lesser degree I suspect than he will.

But there is an equality here as well. It is real hard to live a 24/7 M/s life if you don't have the M or the s. We are partners in this dance without the other it is a sad solo.

poenkitten 




Leatherist -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 1:16:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

What exactly Is wishdom??


Wisdom is about employing what you know in a reasonable and productive manner.

As well as knowing when NOT to.




Justme696 -> RE: BDSM101:communications is SO important...so who knows how to use a flogger? (2/28/2008 1:17:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

What exactly Is wishdom??


Wisdom is about employing what you know in a reasonable and productive manner.

As well as knowing when NOT to.


that is damn well put




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