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RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 1:59:53 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline 		DarkDaddyZ, well said and thank you for elucidating the point.

C

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:00:56 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how much clearer it can be than to tell you it is the difference between having a teacher and having a counsilor.
Councilors, give you help in self examination, they help you figure out yourself and what works for you and what you think might be working for you but isn't.
A wise council who provides you with someone to bounce ideas off.
They ask the probing questions that are really ment to be answered to yourself. They force you to clarify your beliefs in order tobe able to communicate them. They don't teach you how to be a dominant they help you find the answers you already know to be true but had not connected all the dots just yet.



(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:02:15 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline 		RedMagic, good point. While my basic introduction was through reading and mentoring I too have found an amazing resource in submissive feedback.

C

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:06:28 PM   
LadyRainfire


Posts: 6040
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Constrictor,

Mentoring here on CM is an underused and mostly misunderstood resource for newcomers,

To be effective in mentoring one must be objective in counsul and make it known that there will be no ulterior motives. Thus it should be on a hands off basis, to insure there is no attachment, other than friend, between the mentor and mentee.

Unfortunately new subs coming into CM are pounced on by the wolfpack before they are even aware that there are Mentors available for counssul.

CP


I think this is an excellent point. I had a mentor who was invaluable in my growth when I first started as a Dominant. It was definitely hands off, more of a guidance than "this is what I do, this is what you have to do" thing. It was asking questions of myself, learning what I wanted, what was I looking for, getting comfortable with myself in that role. Eventually, it did come to practice but not with him but with a submissive that we knew that volunteered. I know, subbie heaven, 3 dominants, one sub. I was fortunate that his wife also became a great friend. To me, mentoring is about education and learning which means being open on both sides. Jon, my Mentor, learned from me just as I learned from him. Hopefully someone could ask here or someone they know if they need a suggestion or advice.


_____________________________

"Desire is an insatiable beast. Sample your strongest dreams, and you will only crave more." ~ Master

~ one half of "L&L"~

My current state of mind

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:06:29 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline 		Craydn, thank you for the response.yes you correctly percieved the original thrust of my post. And I whole heartedly agree with your post. In every observable action we are teachers. It is something I try to keep in mind so that I can try to be an guide not a bad example.

C

(in reply to Cradyn)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:10:21 PM   
Fox108


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline 		Hi, I would like to know how do I start as a Dom., I was asked by another Mistress to proceed in this direction, she thought I would be a good one and she wants to experience this with me.  Does anyone have any advice how to get started.  I have already started a page here on her advice

(in reply to Constrictor1)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:11:29 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline 		to servez, by no means was I attempting to imply that a person being mentored should not have their own thoughts feelings and opinionsregarding the lifestyle. I would be worried about anyone who chooses any path without some serious level of introspection and self-examination. The mentor should also not have the expectation of a clone either. As for feedback from a person experiencing the sensations I believe that the bottoms in the equation are our best sounding boards.

C

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:15:34 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lumus

Like RedMagic, I learn more from submissives than other Dominants about myself.  I've also been asked to mentor for others, but I have refused. 



[Advice, however, is always offered, with the understanding that it should be taken with a grain of salt...people have to be themselves, ultimately.}

Lumus well said.but I see your offering of advice as an effort to teach someone to be a better (Insert orientation here) to me that is in itself mentoring through experience. Oh yeah I see it as a foundation to the dissemination of infortion as well.

C

(in reply to Lumus)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:24:58 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline 		Fox108, If you were closer I would say let's get a cup of coffee and talk about where you are (In the lifestyle) and where you want to go. If you already have a respected Mistress in your area who reccomended this direction you already have one up on a lot of newer people. I see that you are in New York. That area has literally hundreds of people in the lifestyle who could help you. The problem is finding some one willing to help you , if you are looking for a guide. There are also some very good books to get an overview on dominance. I will reccomend greenery press and then let others tell you of their specific favorites. Or feel free to write me on the other side and I will see if I can be of any assistance.

C

(in reply to Fox108)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:30:02 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer











{I'm not sure how much clearer it can be than to tell you it is the difference between having a teacher and having a counsilor.
Councilors, give you help in self examination, they help you figure out yourself and what works for you and what you think might be working for you but isn't.
A wise council who provides you with someone to bounce ideas off.
They ask the probing questions that are really ment to be answered to yourself. They force you to clarify your beliefs in order tobe able to communicate them. They don't teach you how to be a dominant they help you find the answers you already know to be true but had not connected all the dots just yet.}



Archer, Thank you for saving my hunt and peck typing skills. I could not have ever said it better.

C

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:41:45 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I'm not sure how much clearer it can be than to tell you it is the difference between having a teacher and having a counsilor.
Councilors, give you help in self examination, they help you figure out yourself and what works for you and what you think might be working for you but isn't.
A wise council who provides you with someone to bounce ideas off.
They ask the probing questions that are really ment to be answered to yourself. They force you to clarify your beliefs in order tobe able to communicate them. They don't teach you how to be a dominant they help you find the answers you already know to be true but had not connected all the dots just yet.





Please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.  I understand everything you've said.  I just think it's sterile and unemotional.  That's what I can't get.  It doesn't mesh with my personality.  I never said anything to the effect of it being wrong or anything like that.  If that's what works for two people in a relationship then that's great.  To me it just feels like a textbook relationship.

edited to add...I don't want a counselor in my sex life. 

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 2/28/2008 2:42:20 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 2:57:29 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

In this lifestyle that we participate I can't help but notice that so many people feel that all that is needed to become a master is a loud voice and self proclamation.


I think whenever you have threads that mention mentoring, experience and what makes a person this type words you open up two lines of messages communicated. For most on here the message is of course one’s journey in learning about themselves and some specific aspects like the toys which most on here and certainly me included you can learn something practically anywhere.

The other thought that often seeps into these type of threads are the classic this makes me better/more tangible if I communicate I have done A, B and C on my path that I deserve respect or not to be judge, compared and to be moved into the front of the line from anyone who has not done A, B and C.

So when I read in the OP what makes these guys “I can't help but notice that so many people feel that all that is needed to become a master is a loud voice and self proclamation.” my reaction is another person just wanting to feel better, more deserving or feel it cheapens them by a complete stranger. Guess what if that person with just a loud voice and self proclamation convinces me about his passion, sincerity and motivation to be a Master I see him as no different then a man who writes I have twenty years of experience and teach demos all across the country.

The fact is a person with no experience but the motivation, passion, desire and enjoyment of a power exchange relationship who has never stepped foot in a local community or been mentored is fine with me. The person I call Master and submit to has to be considered dominant and safe by me only and I get to be the judge of that. Another person, especially if they only know him from public play and knows really nothing about him and his personal relationships, just does not carry much weight with me.

For a submissive like me where finding the right person to dedicate my life and serve the mental areas are key and many of these areas are not learned but brought out and realized which can be done in numerous ways. So when I see these types of discussions I often see a lot of dominants jousting to try to tangibly joust for mythical respect and position. When I was looking I was not ranking anyone based on tangible items of this nature and could care less if they called themselves dominant, Master, Lord or any other name or what type of process or experience they had.

So no screaming out you are a Master would not make you a Master in my eyes. Just like screaming out you have so many years of experience and learned by doing this would either. You would be first consider as a normal human being and your words whether in giving advice or in trying to interest me would be taken for what I take them for and no automatic bonus points for how your path lead you to where you are.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Constrictor1)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 3:02:44 PM   
Constrictor1


Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRainfire

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Constrictor,

Mentoring here on CM is an underused and mostly misunderstood resource for newcomers,

To be effective in mentoring one must be objective in counsul and make it known that there will be no ulterior motives. Thus it should be on a hands off basis, to insure there is no attachment, other than friend, between the mentor and mentee.

Unfortunately new subs coming into CM are pounced on by the wolfpack before they are even aware that there are Mentors available for counssul.

CP


I think this is an excellent point. I had a mentor who was invaluable in my growth when I first started as a Dominant. It was definitely hands off, more of a guidance than "this is what I do, this is what you have to do" thing. It was asking questions of myself, learning what I wanted, what was I looking for, getting comfortable with myself in that role. Eventually, it did come to practice but not with him but with a submissive that we knew that volunteered. I know, subbie heaven, 3 dominants, one sub. I was fortunate that his wife also became a great friend. {To me, mentoring is about education and learning which means being open on both sides. Jon, my Mentor, learned from me just as I learned from him. Hopefully someone could ask here or someone they know if they need a suggestion or advice}

LadyRainfire, not to sound simplistic but that is why I think we,and the boards, are all here.

C

(in reply to LadyRainfire)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 3:25:09 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I'm not sure how much clearer it can be than to tell you it is the difference between having a teacher and having a counsilor.
Councilors, give you help in self examination, they help you figure out yourself and what works for you and what you think might be working for you but isn't.
A wise council who provides you with someone to bounce ideas off.
They ask the probing questions that are really ment to be answered to yourself. They force you to clarify your beliefs in order tobe able to communicate them. They don't teach you how to be a dominant they help you find the answers you already know to be true but had not connected all the dots just yet.





Please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.  I understand everything you've said.  I just think it's sterile and unemotional.  That's what I can't get.  It doesn't mesh with my personality.  I never said anything to the effect of it being wrong or anything like that.  If that's what works for two people in a relationship then that's great.  To me it just feels like a textbook relationship.

edited to add...I don't want a counselor in my sex life. 


I'm agreeing with aileen only because she is slightly doooable.

This shit is different. It is sexual from the get. Look how many of the self proclaimed mentors we have in our "normal" day to day walk through this life that have used their position of trust to get them some poooonani....How many of them betray the responsibility of being a mentor and cross the line?...You don't have to look very far.

Now you throw bdsm into the mix....It already has a component that is highly sexually charged. You are asking for trouble. I imagine many who started out innocently as mentors at some point have "CROSSED THE LINE."...I'm not suggesting it was nonconsensual...But it does lend itself for someone to loudly proclaim their expertise in bdsm just wrestle up some grade-A gash that they could have never acquired with an honest approach...It just pisses me off cuz it all should have ended up on my plate.

If you want to learn how to use a toy...Practice. Take a course...Watch some vids....If you want someone to form a mental connection with...Find someone that you are compatable with...Not some creepy mentor. It is way to personal of a journey and experience to trust to some other schmuck to show you the ropes...(no pun intended).

Remember "the mentor" that you found to guide you in the art of giving blow jobs and anal because you needed the experience? You thought by fucking someone who knew something about fucking that you would become more desirable, when in all actuality you were simply being used....It's kinda like that...Only creepier.

I imagine there are enough weak minded and slow folks out here to keep the mentors busy for quite some time.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/28/2008 3:30:38 PM >

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 3:34:15 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

OK...say you meet another dominant man who is fantastic at flogging....something that you've always wanted to try.  Say he's also very romantic and sweet with his sub whereas you are the rough and tough type.  I can see learning how to flog from him.  I still can't see how you can learn mental/personality styles in how to dominate from him when you have two completely different personalities and dominating styles.  I can't put it into words.   One is technique to me.  The other is what makes you, you.  How can you learn that from someone?


You may be pleased to think that the physical Sadism/Dominance is technique and the psychological and emotional are (what? some sort of innate mojo or something?) and that's that.

In fact there is plenty of technique in all areas.

I think that various sorts of clinicians and spiritual directors do work which can be as intimate, complex and unique-to-its case as Dominants/Sadists. We don't expect these people to be born with everything they need to excel. We aren't surprised to hear of mentoring relationships among these professionals, and I don't think we'd require mentors to be of jus the same personality type as mentees.

A coarser but perhaps just as compelling set of examples might be of people who exercise power in non-kinky ways for a living, cops and military officers, say. I suspect that a great deal of formal and informal mentoring goes on among these people regarding employment fo psychological and emotional techniques of control, starting with reading the person and situation effectively.

Sure some people have a gift. The most gifted ones I know don't pretend that no one can teach them anything about the more intricate, complex, subtle, unique-to-a-case aspects of their work.

With these thoughts in mind might you reconsider your view?


 

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 3:44:04 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		This is the problem...This is not a profession. It is mostly "you." It should be innate. There are only so many things one can do with another. If never shown a pair of nipple clamps I would've constructed my own.

Fine, use your mentors....But you should credit them with what they have shared with you...."hey subsusie, I'm flogging you using Bad, Bad Leroy Brown's technique....Ya know that mind fuck that was courtesy of Lord Jim...Ya know that I actually am not very dominant at all, but Master Blaster showed me if I do this and act like that, I will be knee deep in pussy in no time...Wow!! This shit actually works!!"....So give credit where credit is due...

It is for the uninspired, those that are lacking and posers.

_____________________________



(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 4:04:56 PM   
LadyRainfire


Posts: 6040
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Constrictor1


LadyRainfire, not to sound simplistic but that is why I think we,and the boards, are all here.

C


LOL.... But Constrictor, I didn't even know CM existed 8 years ago. Or I would have been here. But I think there's also the factor that some people here just love ripping into others. That can put a dampening effect onto whether they ask a question or not. Not so good for the newbies.

_____________________________

"Desire is an insatiable beast. Sample your strongest dreams, and you will only crave more." ~ Master

~ one half of "L&L"~

My current state of mind

(in reply to Constrictor1)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 4:08:26 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I'm with Archer on this.. no surprise there... I think mentor can equal facilitator.. as in facilitating the process of self discovery

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 4:18:45 PM   
kinkypuppy2


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline 		I think its a GREAT idera, Wish I did oh so many years back.
Would feel a extreme honour if I was asked to mentor another.


_____________________________

See nic "Kinkypupper" also as "slvseeker" As I cannot reply to any posts or log into collarchat under that name I had to create this profile.

(in reply to Constrictor1)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Mentoring - 2/28/2008 4:19:28 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		See, I think a lot of this comes down to personality types and expectations.

Unless we are hermits, we have mentors and/or role models in all facets of our lives.  Some people like to figure out how a new gadget works, others learn quickly from watching others use it, others quickly from being told how to use it.  Neither way is right. 

We aren't born knowing how to dominate, submit, or interact on a romantic level.  We learn these things through emulation and self reflection.  I think most folks learn to be dominant or submissive based on observing other important people in their lives who also engaged in a D/s type relationship.  This isnt' to say that the rolemodels are necessarily the best, only that they have a role.  My father and step mother were class D/s; my dad is your typical submissive.  Yet they had a horribly dysfunctional relationship.  I can look at my father, and see what didn't work well for him as a submissive, and at my step mother and learn from her mistakes (and try very, very hard not to emulate them.  Something I imagine I would do if I wasn't the reflective type.)

Mentors can provide guidence to those who feel they learn better from guidence.  It isn't and shouldn't be for everyone; honestly, I don't think I would have done well learning from a mentor, but I'm grateful to the people who have taken the time to show me how things work from time to time.  Personally, I learn the most from just talking about things and seeing how other people interact.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 40
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