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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:03:58 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

On the surface I don't personally see anything much wrong with it.  And I am sure there will be some sort of law suit soon. 
I am more confused about the headline of the thread and the reference about accomodating Muslim women in the article.  It could lead one to assume that this is a time for Muslim women only to exercise, as opposed to (any) "women only" time.  And I am thinking that this is an incorrect conclusion. Yes?  No? At any rate, I don't like that wording of the article.
And they should also have a "male only" time for those who prefer the company of other men in the gym or are self conscious about their bodies and prefer to exercise out of the sight of the ladies they might hope to impress under different circumstances.  We all don't have wonderful six-packs to flaunt.  



Hi Dusty. You raise a good point. From what I can gather, it's open only to women, but it was a group of 6 muslim women that requested it.
 
Personally, I disagree with it being okay for the men to be excluded, as it is a public access gym; if the ladies want one of their own, then one soley for women should be built, perhaps.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 6:34:26 AM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		I imagine orthodox Jewish women are also going to flock to the women only time, as are out of shape women who are too embarrassed to work out in front of men.

If this was the only gym, that would be one thing. But one hour a day isn't preventing the men from being able to ever use the gym.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 6:36:11 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Can you imagine the foetid stink of gash from them women in burkhas sweating to the oldies?

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 7:00:59 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You are so cute, thompy!

Yeah, I know.






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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 7:07:59 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

On the surface I don't personally see anything much wrong with it.  And I am sure there will be some sort of law suit soon. 
I am more confused about the headline of the thread and the reference about accomodating Muslim women in the article.  It could lead one to assume that this is a time for Muslim women only to exercise, as opposed to (any) "women only" time.  And I am thinking that this is an incorrect conclusion. Yes?  No? At any rate, I don't like that wording of the article.
And they should also have a "male only" time for those who prefer the company of other men in the gym or are self conscious about their bodies and prefer to exercise out of the sight of the ladies they might hope to impress under different circumstances.  We all don't have wonderful six-packs to flaunt.  

quote:

Honestly, i'm surprised that Muslim women that devout are even attending college, but maybe i'm just absorbing too much conservative media.


I have to agree with this, although I didn't think of it, Myself, until it was mentioned.  I would guess that this is less about modesty and more about religious restrictions which disallow fraternization with males except under very specific circumstances.  The article does state that this is a problem for these women due to religious and cultural reasons.  *shrug*  So why are they in a co-ed college and what are they studying?  Just something rhetorical to think about.  And are there that many Muslim women attending Harvard to justify this?  If our women were going to college in the Middle East, would they be given special consideration for their cultural (western) ways?  
Yes, I am feeling a bit snotty tonight.     



GDG:
No I don't think you are being snotty.  I think you are being insightful and rational.  Here in America we are dedicated to "multiculturalism"  if you don't like our multiculturalism then go back to where you can practice your own culture in your own way.  If you don't want to work out in a coed gym then go to a gender specific gym.
thompson






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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 7:13:36 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		I think the indignation over this issue is funny. Surely, gender segregation in gyms makes a modicum of sense, and we can understand why some people would prefer it that way (especially women)? I know that it's something I'd be happy to take advantage of, should it be available to me. I just don't care enough that I would ask for it.

It's not going to harm anybody if they allocate a one-hour women-only slot at the gym once a day. I'm sure the University could accommodate men with a similar "package", if they feel left out. People only care because it's Muslims that seem to be behind the request, and because there is such immense prejudice and bullshit doing the rounds about Islam.

A woman can be a devout Muslim and study at University - W(here)TF has anybody heard otherwise? The level of ignorance here is staggering  .


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/5/2008 7:53:24 AM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 7:59:34 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

KittenSol
People only care because it's Muslims that seem to be behind the request, and because there is such immense prejudice and bullshit doing the rounds about Islam.

True, but the problem is that people recognise that for multicuralism to "work" we have to change our ways to suit theirs, not the other way round. 
Point of info:we have mixed sex hospital wards in the UK.

Having said that I think single sex gyms are a good idea, tho' maybe mix the sexes and women would learn how to run properly lol.
Throwing a ball is just beyond them.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/5/2008 8:03:07 AM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 8:12:02 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I think the indignation over this issue is funny. Surely, gender segregation in gyms makes a modicum of sense, and we can understand why some people would prefer it that way (especially women)? I know that it's something I'd be happy to take advantage of, should it be available to me. I just don't care enough that I would ask for it.

It's not going to harm anybody if they allocate a one-hour women-only slot at the gym once a day. I'm sure the University could accommodate men with a similar "package", if they feel left out. People only care because it's Muslims that seem to be behind the request, and because there is such immense prejudice and bullshit doing the rounds about Islam.

A woman can be a devout Muslim and study at University - W(here)TF has anybody heard otherwise? The level of ignorance here is staggering  .



Well said, KS :)

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 8:13:49 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Fancy going to the gym? I know a place where they do "chicks only" sessions  .

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 8:14:39 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Fancy going to the gym? I know a place where they do "chicks only" sessions  .


sure.. lemme grab my sweatpants LOL

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 8:29:25 AM   
Estring


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Status: offline 		It would be interesting to see the reaction here if it had been six Christian women who had requested this. I suspect it would be quite a different reaction, from here and from the college.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 10:52:27 AM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		Actually, they should have a male only hour also. Just as Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women are not supposed to be seen unclothed by men other than their husbands, the males in those religions aren't supposed to be viewing unclothed (or  more rightly underclothed) women other than their wives.

Considering obesity rates, providing facilities where people can work out without being forced to choose between their health and their religion makes sense.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 1:44:39 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

KittenSol
People only care because it's Muslims that seem to be behind the request, and because there is such immense prejudice and bullshit doing the rounds about Islam.

True, but the problem is that people recognise that for multicuralism to "work" we have to change our ways to suit theirs, not the other way round. 

It would appear that your understanding of the word "multiculturalism" is somewhat flawed.

Point of info:we have mixed sex hospital wards in the UK.

Having said that I think single sex gyms are a good idea, tho' maybe mix the sexes and women would learn how to run properly lol.
We are all so very grateful that you taught Jackie Joiner how to run properly.

Throwing a ball is just beyond them.
Maybe it is just the girls you pal around with who throw like that.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 1:49:12 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually, they should have a male only hour also. Just as Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women are not supposed to be seen unclothed by men other than their husbands, the males in those religions aren't supposed to be viewing unclothed (or  more rightly underclothed) women other than their wives.

Considering obesity rates, providing facilities where people can work out without being forced to choose between their health and their religion makes sense.

DesFIP:
I was not aware that these women were working out unclothed.  I would question whether a sweat suit is more revealing than a burkha.
Now if these women are working out nake or in spandex perhaps I will go to Harvard and take a seat in the bleachers
thompson






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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:22:48 PM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
quote:

KittenSol
People only care because it's Muslims that seem to be behind the request, and because there is such immense prejudice and bullshit doing the rounds about Islam.

True, but the problem is that people recognise that for multicuralism to "work" we have to change our ways to suit theirs, not the other way round.

Having said that I think single sex gyms are a good idea, tho' maybe mix the sexes and women would learn how to run properly lol.

We are all so very grateful that you taught Jackie Joiner how to run properly.

 
I would be willing to bet that MsJoiner has an excess of testosterone coursing thru' her no doubt lovely body.
Show me  a photo of her backside and thighs and I will know for sure.
Thompson I am as tolerant as the next man but just because you want a Laydee to sit on your face there's no need to get carried away.
 

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/5/2008 3:26:06 PM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:36:47 PM   
rook42


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Status: offline 		The basis for the switch was not discomfort: it was the argument that their religious upbringing demanded the absence of males. The argument is that it is unequal to not allow for this difference in religion. I think this is hogwash. It is imposing limits on the behavior of others for one's own religion; essentially, a pressing of your religious behaviors on others without your religious beliefs. Your right to freely practice your religion ends with yourself- it does not entitle you the right to influence the actions of others outside of your belief system.

Assuming I don't have any details of the case wrong, then charge females a greater gym fee for greater availability of the gym :) As it stands, the males of that campus are subsidizing the gym use by people other than themselves. Or give an equally large and convenient males only time... There are many religious men that have problem with being around half-naked women, as well. My university had a successful male driven lawsuit for not allowing proper distancing between male/females in living settings. The religious discomfort for those of the opposite gender is NOT gender-specific, regardless of which side has gained more press in this case.

As a useful mental exercise... If someone refused to sit in seats that women had sat in, on the grounds that female essence had "tainted" them and rendered them a danger to one's own spiritual purity(It's not as silly as it sounds- there are those who believe this)... Would the university be obliged to create male-only seating in the classroom?


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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:45:03 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		Religious/cultural justification for sexism.  Wonderful.

Yeah, I hope they're sued effectively.

Don't get me wrong.  I sympathize with the women to an extent.  By not having these hours, it's likely that they wouldn't go to spend time at the gym.  But, to me, that's sorta like a racist not going to a school just because it has students of different races at it.  Do you say, "Okay, we'll teach [their race]-only classes", or do you say, "You don't want to get along with others?  Fine, your loss."?

It's even easier to sympathize with the women because they're not doing it out of malice (I assume), but because of religious reasons.  So what if there was someone who, say, didn't like being around [some race].. not out of spite, but just because it was against some sort of tradiation that they were raised to believe?

I don't think giving into ignorance and bias is a good thing here.

 
Edit:  Added in the fourth paragraph.  And a specific race used replaced; no need to even remind people of the old prejustice.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 3/5/2008 4:03:21 PM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:48:52 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		How would you feel if the university also provided for men only gym time (something I, with a couple of others, suggested on this thread) :-) ? There's enough time in the week to run women only, men only and mixed sessions. It works, I've seen it.

It's not about discrimination; it's about providing a service according to demand. What's wrong with that, if it's within reasonnable limits???

Suing, suing... you guys and your culture of litigation rofl!

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:48:59 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Religious/cultural justification for sexism.  Wonderful.

Yeah, I hope they're sued effectively.

Don't get me wrong.  I sympathize with the women to an extent.  By not having these hours, it's likely that they wouldn't go to spend time at the gym.  But, to me, that's sorta like a racist not going to a school just because it has students of different races at it.  Do you say, "Okay, we'll teach [their race]-only classes", or do you say, "You don't want to get along with others?  Fine, your loss."?

I don't think giving into ignorance and bias is a good thing here.



agree 100% You don't come here and expect to be treated differently...As I would not when travelling abroad.


However being "dominate" I always expect abroad to accomodate my needs.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/5/2008 3:50:11 PM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:55:19 PM   
christine1


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Status: offline 		hmmmm, guess i'll have to demand a blondes only gym hour, or a blue eyes only gym hour, or people that drive red cars gym hour.   oh, and let's not forget waffle lovers, they're important too, i mean really, how terrible would it be to have to go to they gym with someone that HATED waffles? 

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