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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:55:46 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Being Muslim doesn't mean the women in question are foreign, unless you're from the "angry bitch" school of thought. Oh fuck it, this whole debate's fucking stupid anyway.

Men are feeling threatened by this whole thing because they're feeling excluded from rubbing against sweaty Harvard babes pumping muscle at the gym :-p . 

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 3:59:54 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Just because people call something for being sexist doesn't mean they're threatened by it, even if it is comforting for you to think so.  ;)

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:04:37 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I find the whole knee-jerk reaction to this pathetic. I come from England, where it's widely accepted that pools and other places of sports and leisure make "women-only time". I just don't see it as sexist, but hey, if getting your knickers in a twist over something so trivial rocks your boat, all the more power to you :-) .

Next thing you know, you'll be screaming to gender desegregate public conveniences on the basis that it's sexist  .

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:13:37 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rook42

The basis for the switch was not discomfort: it was the argument that their religious upbringing demanded the absence of males. The argument is that it is unequal to not allow for this difference in religion. I think this is hogwash. It is imposing limits on the behavior of others for one's own religion; essentially, a pressing of your religious behaviors on others without your religious beliefs. Your right to freely practice your religion ends with yourself- it does not entitle you the right to influence the actions of others outside of your belief system.

Assuming I don't have any details of the case wrong, then charge females a greater gym fee for greater availability of the gym :) As it stands, the males of that campus are subsidizing the gym use by people other than themselves. Or give an equally large and convenient males only time... There are many religious men that have problem with being around half-naked women, as well. My university had a successful male driven lawsuit for not allowing proper distancing between male/females in living settings. The religious discomfort for those of the opposite gender is NOT gender-specific, regardless of which side has gained more press in this case.

As a useful mental exercise... If someone refused to sit in seats that women had sat in, on the grounds that female essence had "tainted" them and rendered them a danger to one's own spiritual purity(It's not as silly as it sounds- there are those who believe this)... Would the university be obliged to create male-only seating in the classroom?






Well said.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:15:28 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

A woman can be a devout Muslim and study at University - W(here)TF has anybody heard otherwise? The level of ignorance here is staggering  .



*shrug* Women in Kuwait can't vote; women in Saudi Arabia can't drive... ignorance would be a lack of awareness of a laundry list of rights forbidden to women under Islamic law. No knowing allllll the details is simply a matter of not having a dog in that hunt

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:17:49 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Men are feeling threatened by this whole thing because they're feeling excluded from rubbing against sweaty Harvard babes pumping muscle at the gym :-p . 


It's not about feeling threatened. It's about having restrictions of one religion forcibly places on those of other religions, or of no religion. No one's forcing them to go to the gym with the men....but they *are* forcing the men to stay out because of their religious beliefs.

In this country it's supposed to be "believe as you like, but don't impress those beliefs on others."

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:18:30 PM   
bleusparkles


Posts: 168
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline 		I saw this on a news channel the other night.

Its not JUST for Muslim women. Apparently its just the Muslim women who had the balls to stand up and ask for what they wanted ... Now ALL the women have the opportunity to use a gym on campus without worrying about guys watching or making them feel uncomfortable.

Religion has nothing to do with this. Its about modesty ... Frankly, college guys can be real twerps when it comes to women trying to excersise.

On the flip side, I think they should do the same thing for guys ... I know a few ladies who can be real twerps as well.

< Message edited by bleusparkles -- 3/5/2008 4:19:32 PM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:19:01 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Pathetic and divisive ignorance... Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are countries. Ask Muslim women who are doctors, architects, lawyers, university professors, in Turkey, Iraq (especially pre-US time), Morrocco, Jordan, France, England, America, whether it's against their religion to study. Gawd! Get a clue!

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:20:29 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

In this country it's supposed to be "believe as you like, but don't impress those beliefs on others."



Really? I wonder what Baby Bush and other abortion clinics bombers think about that rofl!

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:21:52 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I find the whole knee-jerk reaction to this pathetic. I come from England, where it's widely accepted that pools and other places of sports and leisure make "women-only time". I just don't see it as sexist, but hey, if getting your knickers in a twist over something so trivial rocks your boat, all the more power to you :-) .

Next thing you know, you'll be screaming to gender desegregate public conveniences on the basis that it's sexist  .


I'm sure at those places in your country it's known before-hand that you can choose to use the place knowing ahead of time there will be times when you can't. I'm sure at these places that it's a choice you can make to go or not go there.

In this case it's a co-ed college's PUBLIC facility and one entire group is being excluded to bow to the whims and beliefs of 6. And for no really good reason. As it was pointed out in another post, the women aren't working out naked...so they *are* covered. If they can ride a bike, go for a walk, or be out on a hot day with their heads covered, then wearing full sweats and the head covering should *not* interfere with their workouts.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:22:56 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

In this country it's supposed to be "believe as you like, but don't impress those beliefs on others."



Really? I wonder what Baby Bush and other abortion clinics bombers think about that rofl!


And the award for most off topic and unrelated comment goes too......

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:23:44 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bleusparkles

Its not JUST for Muslim women. Apparently its just the Muslim women who had the balls to stand up and ask for what they wanted ... Now ALL the women have the opportunity to use a gym on campus without worrying about guys watching or making them feel uncomfortable.

Religion has nothing to do with this. Its about modesty ... Frankly, college guys can be real twerps when it comes to women trying to excersise.



Precisely the point I made at the beginning of this thread; the uproar on this board is due to the religion of the women who asked for it. They're probably a bunch of women who who happen to be Muslims who asked for a little bit of female only time at the gym. Because they're Muslim, people are screaming blue murder, but I bet you lots of other women would like to take advantage of such a thing. Like I said, I would be the first to sign up.  

Thank you, bleu, for voicing a semblant of reason here :-) .

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:25:20 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I don't feel threatened by it, I think its cool. It's really common here, as you said kittin, and its no real problem if the pool or the gym is closed to me on one night in seven: there's other places to go.  If you run a gym and enough customers will use your facility only under those conditions, you'd be foolish to say "no".

And its got fuck all to do with multiculturalism.  It's to do with creeps who use the gym as a cut-price table dance bar. And its to do with people who are too self-conscious to ignore these creepy oglers - women are hassled about their looks/weight more so maybe they're more aware of being watched and want some escape from that.

On the multiculturalism note, there is also a long-standing tradition of gentlemen's clubs in London which often bar women from membership and even from meeting their spouses for a drink there.  Women who go to the pub on their own are "looking for it" but if they ask men to let them sweat and fart in the gym in private it's this big problem!  I say, let them tone up and then enjoy the results.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:25:49 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: bleusparkles

Its not JUST for Muslim women. Apparently its just the Muslim women who had the balls to stand up and ask for what they wanted ... Now ALL the women have the opportunity to use a gym on campus without worrying about guys watching or making them feel uncomfortable.

Religion has nothing to do with this. Its about modesty ... Frankly, college guys can be real twerps when it comes to women trying to excersise.



Precisely the point I made at the beginning of this thread; the uproar on this board is due to the religion of the women who asked for it. They're probably a bunch of women who who happen to be Muslims who asked for a little bit of female only time at the gym. Because they're Muslim, people are screaming blue murder, but I bet you lots of other women would like to take advantage of such a thing. Like I said, I would be the first to sign up.  

Thank you, bleu, for voicing a semblant of reason here :-) .


The article on this occurance mentioned that a reporter camped outside the place during one of the women only times and *no one* came or left.

They ask for it and then no one uses it. Grand use of operating funds there. At least the staff got a lil free time during the day.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:26:24 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Thank you, thank you, thank you...  .

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 4:28:23 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

And its got fuck all to do with multiculturalism. 


That was the guise under which these women demanded the time to themselves. Funny though....here in the US, I recall a story about a Muslim runner on a school team who had no trouble covering herself for her faith and working out with the others even, *gasp* in public.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/5/2008 4:29:31 PM >

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 6:16:41 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Pathetic and divisive ignorance... Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are countries.


Really? When did that happen?
They are countries run under strict Islamic law, and their restrictions on women are claimed by their leaders to be based on the Koran. The same holy book that these women are using as justification for not being in a gymnasium with men is the same one that the Saudis refer to when they forbid a woman from being out in public by herself.

quote:

Ask Muslim women who are doctors, architects, lawyers, university professors, in Turkey, Iraq (especially pre-US time), Morrocco, Jordan, France, England, America, whether it's against their religion to study.


And do these doctors see only female patients? Can the lawyers only defend women, before a judge and jury of women, in a courtroom devoid of men? Do any of the professors teach men? If i spoke with them, would they be permitted to leave their hair uncovered? Would they be permitted to be alone with me in the room when we spoke?

quote:

Gawd! Get a clue! 


Nice.  Maybe the Saudis are on to something after all... sounds like you could use a good stoning


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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 6:17:51 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Nice... with an answer like that, you'd be just at home over there :-) .

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 6:20:08 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		All in all, I don't think it's a good idea, but it is after all a PRIVATE facility.  I don't quite understand where all the outrage is coming from.

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RE: Harvard gym tests Muslim women only hours - 3/5/2008 6:22:11 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I do: the anti-Islam propaganda's trickled down to popular opinion very successfully.

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