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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I suggest you try to title your threads better then. You seem to use the excuse much of the mainstream media does when placing something before the public.

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Well this all assumes several things. I think it's safe to say not everyone looks at animals the same way. If they did, animal abuse would be a felony. To you, to me, to many others, animal cruelty is horrendous and horrific and a whole bunch of other nasty, scary words. But it's sadly not that way with *everyone*.

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ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub

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Well this all assumes several things. I think it's safe to say not everyone looks at animals the same way. If they did, animal abuse would be a felony. To you, to me, to many others, animal cruelty is horrendous and horrific and a whole bunch of other nasty, scary words. But it's sadly not that way with *everyone*.

Actually, animal abuse IS a felony in all but 7 of the United States. Many, many, many people find that ANY life -- whether a dog or a human -- is valuable and should be treated with respect and kindness.

Source: http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/cruelty_laws.php

Furthermore, because of the inhumane treatment and heinousness of dogfighting, ALL FIFTY STATES have made dogfighting a felony.

Source: http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2008/03/wy-dogfighting.html

When people make their voices heard about this type of behavior, enough to get federal laws changed, it shouldn't come as any surprise to learn why there is so much outrage about the puppy-throwing video. Real or not, it is just sick, and to the millions of pet owners in the US alone -- who spend BILLIONS of dollars on their pets, BTW -- it is very much akin to throwing a human infant off a cliff. Senseless.

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

These are soldiers, there to do a specific job, not nurse a litter of puppies which occupy attention that is much needed elsewhere and would become a hindrance -

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The gloating was despicable, whether the act was 'necessary' is debatable,

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and I'm afraid their titles ARE important given that they weren't locals, have limited resources there and not in a position to adopt pets.

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I do not condone their actions, but sometimes such things are a necessary evil.

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Perhaps. However in Hawaii, where this marine is supposed to be from, it was just made a felony last year. So that's not always been the case. Even still, killing a dog, does not necessarily *legally* mean cruelty. And even if they proved he was being cruel, I believe the punishment for murder is still juuuuuust a bit more severe.

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ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub

I'm not sure what the timing of the passing of the law has to do with anything, other than to show how slow some legislations are to take action.

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ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub

And you are correct in saying that killing a dog doesn't mean that it is illegal -- or even cruel. To kill an animal in self-defense is not considered animal cruelty; to kill an animal for food is not considered animal cruelty (recent meat plant practices excepted); or to kill an animal to end its suffering isn't always considered animal cruelty (depending upon the method employed).

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ORIGINAL: bamabbwsub

I strongly believe that both of these men -- particularly the one who threw the puppy -- need immediate and intense psychological counseling. Most soldiers are able to recognize the NEED for killing the enemy over the DESIRE to kill a person or a helpless animal. Therein lies the difference.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
These are soldiers, there to do a specific job, not nurse a litter of puppies which occupy attention that is much needed elsewhere and would become a hindrance -

They sure are; something about freedom, and the puppy sure got its.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

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The gloating was despicable, whether the act was 'necessary' is debatable,

As others have mentioned, there are much more human ways of putting down an animal. After watching yet another video, it seems that wasting bullets is not an issue, and I do believe they carry knives.

Read above, Keira. Many other cultures do not share our warm, fluffy regard for animals. It could well be that someone may have been kind enough to take the pup in and care for it, and then, reality hits home and quite often stray dogs are picked up by people who then take them to 'factories' where they're thrown into huge cages, legs are broken, pulled back and tied behind their backs and often inserted alive and squealing into a vat of boiling oil... I'm still with the dog having received the easier option. Of course those scenarios aren't necessarily the case, but remain a possibility given that we do not know the circumstances of the one presented to us in that video clip.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

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ORIGINAL: MissMorriganand I'm afraid their titles ARE important given that they weren't locals, have limited resources there and not in a position to adopt pets.
I would agree only in the sense that it is what got them there, after that, it becomes irrelevant to me.

 
I likely buggered up all the above quotes!

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(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

Some people aren't nice, plain and simple, and I have rescued pets that have had people use them as footballs, kicking them for their amusement, infact, my male cat still yowls in pain every time he yawns as a result of his jaw having been broken as a kitten from a thug doing exactly that and while he's almost 15 years of age, still maintains a fear of men wearing shoes. So, in light of that, and coupled with the fact that other cultures do not share our love for our pets, I think the trip off the cliff was the quickest solution for that puppy.

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C'mon, Keira. You saw the grinning face of that soldier as he lobbed the puppy over the cliff,

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depending on how high up that cliff was, likely chances are it died quickly. Would you really have preferred the soldier using a knife on it instead? I know I certainly wouldn't.

As far as the quotes being 'buggered", that is something I can easily live with.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

I would rather die by a knife placed in an appropriate place, for a quick death, then to experience even those few seconds of “flying lesson”, knowing the results of hitting the ground would not favorable.
 

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ORIGINAL: Smith117

You would, perhaps. However that is the least sanitary option. And in the field, lack of good sanitary practice can cripple a unit as fast as a firefight. What if the animal *were* diseased? Cutting it open and then putting that disease-filled bloody knife back with your equipment would be a *bad* idea. So we talk of shooting the animal. Ok, and perhaps there were suspected insurgent activity around and a single shot would either expost our guys or let them know we were coming.

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But it's a 15 second snip of (one of) a guy's year-long or longer stay in a warzone.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Then I would go with breaking its neck, as long as it was done quickly; after all he did already have it in his hand.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Actually, the report I read from Muttling’s post stated his tour started in mid 2007 and he was sent home in October. It seems unlikely they would have left out his being there longer, if that were the case, because that information would have in his favor.

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You can say what we saw is fucked up....but assuming that we know all the details at this point is jumping the gun a bit.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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You can say what we saw is fucked up....but assuming that we know all the details at this point is jumping the gun a bit.

I say what we saw is fucked up.  I say I do not know all the details.   I say the details we have are sufficient. 

The vid clip shows a US Marine hurling a dog to his death.  We need no additional detail to acknowledge this.

On its own merits that is an act of intolerable cruelty.  On its own merits that is an act that is not in keeping with the customs or the traditions of the United States Marine Corps.  On its own merits that act is justification for swift and certain condemnation.

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Then I'd say that for this marine, it's lucky you're not one of the investigators.

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So, if you saw a 15 second clip of a guy shooting someone in self-defense, without seeing WHY he pulled his gun, I guess you'd just say he was a murderer and thus should be thrown in jail?

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ORIGINAL: domiguy

It was probably a bad dog....Pat answer.

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

Some people aren't nice, plain and simple, and I have rescued pets that have had people use them as footballs, kicking them for their amusement, infact, my male cat still yowls in pain every time he yawns as a result of his jaw having been broken as a kitten from a thug doing exactly that and while he's almost 15 years of age, still maintains a fear of men wearing shoes. So, in light of that, and coupled with the fact that other cultures do not share our love for our pets, I think the trip off the cliff was the quickest solution for that puppy.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
These are soldiers, there to do a specific job, not nurse a litter of puppies which occupy attention that is much needed elsewhere and would become a hindrance -

They sure are; something about freedom, and the puppy sure got its.

 
C'mon, Keira. You saw the grinning face of that soldier as he lobbed the puppy over the cliff, depending on how high up that cliff was, likely chances are it died quickly. Would you really have preferred the soldier using a knife on it instead? I know I certainly wouldn't.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

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ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

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The gloating was despicable, whether the act was 'necessary' is debatable,

As others have mentioned, there are much more human ways of putting down an animal. After watching yet another video, it seems that wasting bullets is not an issue, and I do believe they carry knives.

Read above, Keira. Many other cultures do not share our warm, fluffy regard for animals. It could well be that someone may have been kind enough to take the pup in and care for it, and then, reality hits home and quite often stray dogs are picked up by people who then take them to 'factories' where they're thrown into huge cages, legs are broken, pulled back and tied behind their backs and often inserted alive and squealing into a vat of boiling oil... I'm still with the dog having received the easier option. Of course those scenarios aren't necessarily the case, but remain a possibility given that we do not know the circumstances of the one presented to us in that video clip.

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ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

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ORIGINAL: MissMorriganand I'm afraid their titles ARE important given that they weren't locals, have limited resources there and not in a position to adopt pets.
I would agree only in the sense that it is what got them there, after that, it becomes irrelevant to me.

 
I likely buggered up all the above quotes!

awww, Miss M.. you rpoor furbaby..give him scritches for me!

As far as the cliff thing though.. since (AFAIK) there are no videos showing the actual drop from the cliff, we have no way of knowing if the pup hit the bottom at a great height and died.. if it hit the bottom and wandered off (slightly dazed, but ok), or if it hit the bottom, and was critically wounded and left to die in a most painful and heinous manner...

a knife to the throat, or a snapped neck would have assured it of a quick death.  NOT that I condone doing that to any living creature, but it certainly would have been more humane than tossing it off a cliff and walking away without knowing what the end result was.  Just my .05.

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 3/8/2008 5:15:55 PM >

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(in reply to MissMorrigan)

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ORIGINAL: Smith117
And I probably would have given the pup a bite of my hotdog MRE. Everyone's different.

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This is just quibbling.

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The fact is, he was in a warzone.