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RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:26:27 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I just fail to see how Leatherist apparently concludes that those of us horrified by that video are any less horrified by the death of non-combatants...


Many of those non-combattants are collateral, not entertainment.

And it bears mentioning that a puppy is in a pretty different position with regard to defending itself; it's weak and contemptible.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:26:43 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

   (LS)  What I'm refering tois the sentiment that everyone one that goes to Iraq is a "hero".  Fucking puppies over .... or raping 14 year olds is not the sign of a "hero". 




And your magic wand solution for stopping psychopaths and rapists from joining the military (or the teaching profession, or the clergy, or the medical profession, etc.) would be?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 3/6/2008 5:28:08 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:40:04 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

What have we become?

k


Hmmm...I'm guessing...a society of 2 - 4% of the population that are losers (like in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's, 1900's...and it would appear, the numbers have remained fairly constant in the 2000's), but now uniquely, in our age...where news is instant...everything that happened previously...now lands on your TV, internet, newspaper, etc....

...in about 4 minutes.

There was a fellow a loooong time ago that said....(I'll paraphrase...because they didn't speak exactly this way back then)

"Kids today, it scares me to death to think they'll one day take over the world.  They speak so oddly, dress so unusually....and they have no concept of the world, politics, events...and they care not at all for their own future...."

(It was Socrates).

Ain't nothing new under the sun folks.

(Ya just hear about it faster).

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:41:00 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

So the conflation of the two into smearing an entire branch with the label of being unthinking homicidal maniacs deserves no more credence than any other such blanket over simplification.



Sorry, but I don't recall ever using the term "unthinking homicidal maniacs." I said they are trained to be killers and terminators who do not think for themselves. Nowhere did I call them maniacs.



What an amazing coincidence, because I don't recall putting any sort of quotes around those words to suggest they were an actually said by you, as opposed to being a summation.  Wonder how that got there?

Oh, and BTW.... impaired judgement to the point not being able to tell think for one's self on matters of right and wrong (particularly killing people), is the definiton of mania.



quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Second point... because so many people get their information about the military from the same movies as you, the USMC attracts a lot of young people with compensation issues. Typically, if they stick around and don't do something really stupid, they are given a chance to grow out of it...not all of them do.



Not really sure how this is relevant.



Oh, I'll bet if you try really hard it will come to you.




quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And anyone who has actually served recently should be aware that for the last few decades, the USMC has made a very determined effort to avoid the bloat of other branches.
It has taken a lot of effective steps to remain a smaller, more efficient force by training to use individualism for the good of the group, and by promoting and retaining those who show evidence of being good at that.... just like many non-military organizations (which no doubt have their share of puppy killing psychos too).



Every service has their  bad eggs, though in the last decade or longer, I seem to notice an increasing frequency in the horror stories from the marines compared to the other services.




And observations are like opinions..... Ask Rosenhan.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 3/6/2008 5:42:32 PM >

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:41:46 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

If I were in a war type situation (like this man) I wouldn't be wasting a bullet on a dog - to kill it "humanely"- that I might need later on an armed combatant.  The dog was dead instantly and didn't suffer - how humane is that?


Gun butt to the right spot on the skull (probably covered in basic training), or a knife between the topmost vertebrae, should be quicker and more humane. If the dog were infected, you really don't want to be picking it up to throw it anywhere, so you would spend a bullet on it if that were the case. Clearly, it wasn't.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Invictus754)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:42:05 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

What have we become?

k


Hmmm...I'm guessing...a society of 2 - 4% of the population that are losers (like in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's, 1900's...and it would appear, the numbers have remained fairly constant in the 2000's), but now uniquely, in our age...where news is instant...everything that happened previously...now lands on your TV, internet, newspaper, etc....

...in about 4 minutes.

There was a fellow a loooong time ago that said....(I'll paraphrase...because they didn't speak exactly this way back then)

"Kids today, it scares me to death to think they'll one day take over the world.  They speak so oddly, dress so unusually....and they have no concept of the world, politics, events...and they care not at all for their own future...."

(It was Socrates).

Ain't nothing new under the sun folks.

(Ya just hear about it faster).


To use a phrase from the videogame message boards....

Total pwnage.....and from the great philosopher, too.

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:43:41 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado




Just out of curiousity, do you ahve anything worthwhile to contribute or are you content in resorting to useless personal attacks and inflammatory statements?

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:48:25 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Oh, exposing BS is just a hobby of mine... if anyone finds it useful, I'm pleased.  Do you ever have anything factual to contribute to the many useful posts and threads I've put in? 

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:49:02 PM   
Kirren


Posts: 580
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline 		I have dogs...I have three of them. Of the three...all of them came from abused pasts...the pitt bull was 5 weeks old when I got her...so emanciated that she couldnt hold down anything but soup broth and gatorade for weeks...the black lab had yeast infections in both ears to the point that her ears had to be lanced multiple times daily....and we had to go thru multiple medicines and to this day she still has scar tissue so badly that she cant be petted in what would normally be a dogs favorite place...and most recently....a wolf hybrid who as well was starved....and so skiddish its taken Me weeks to get her back in shape....

Im going to tell any one and every one...I dont care if its humans, dogs, cats, pigs or what ever...I dont care...ANY ANY act of cruelty is NOT acceptable...unless they are consenting....


Call Me a tree hugger...call Me a hippie...I dont give a damn....

This is sick...and can not be tolerated.

_____________________________

Everything has been said before
There's nothing left to say anymore
When it's all the same
You can ask for it by name


Did I fail to mention...I am a BITCH?

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:49:50 PM   
charmdpetKeira


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Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
When you've been in a combat situation as fucked up as some of our troops have in this war, I will give your statement validity. Until then, you have no idea what you're talking about.




I have not enlisted into any of the governments wars, but if it is any consolation to you; Hell was a place called home, for many years.
 
According to your theory, I should be a physically abusive, child molester, and yet, I have managed to overcome.
 
I disagree that I need to be in a war to have an understanding as to how the human mind works.
 
The case of your brother is interesting; I don’t believe he has to be the exception though.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:50:30 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Oh, exposing BS is just a hobby of mine... if anyone finds it useful, I'm pleased.  Do you ever have anything factual to contribute to the many useful posts and threads I've put in? 




You appear to be a bit too emotionally involved in the subject matter for me to continue wasting my time on.


< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/6/2008 5:51:10 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 5:52:47 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
When you've been in a combat situation as fucked up as some of our troops have in this war, I will give your statement validity. Until then, you have no idea what you're talking about.




I have not enlisted into any of the governments wars, but if it is any consolation to you; Hell was a place called home, for many years.
 
According to your theory, I should be a physically abusive, child molester, and yet, I have managed to overcome.
 
I disagree that I need to be in a war to have an understanding as to how the human mind works.
 
The case of your brother is interesting; I don’t believe he has to be the exception though.
 
k


Physically abusive homes differ greatly from the horrors of war. Even psychologists would say the two are apples and oranges.

As for my brother being the exception....I keep looking for proof that he is not. I have yet to find it, however. Been lookin' for a good couple of decades now. I'll let you know if I find any other examples.


< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/6/2008 6:02:55 PM >

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:05:34 PM   
charmdpetKeira


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Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
Physically abusive homes differ greatly from the horrors of war. Even psychologists would say the two are apples and oranges.


This is true, I was a child with no way of knowing what was right and wrong.
 
I suspect the individual on the video, didn't leave the nest in a much better condition then I did, and the added stress of being in combat has only helped in pushing him off the deep side. Only a theory, of course.
 
Otherwise everyone who has been in a war would be acting in the same manner. And the actions of others, similar to this, whom have never been in a war would not be happening either.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:07:42 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
As for my brother being the exception....I keep looking for proof that he is not. I have yet to find it, however. Been lookin' for a good couple of decades now. I'll let you know if I find any other examples.



I will pray that you do; find others that is.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:11:41 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

This is true, I was a child with no way of knowing what was right and wrong.
 
I suspect the individual on the video, didn't leave the nest in a much better condition then I did, and the added stress of being in combat has only helped in pushing him off the deep side. Only a theory, of course.
 
Otherwise everyone who has been in a war would be acting in the same manner. And the actions of others, similar to this, whom have never been in a war would not be happening either.



Well this all assumes several things. I think it's safe to say not everyone looks at animals the same way. If they did, animal abuse would be a felony. To you, to me, to many others, animal cruelty is horrendous and horrific and a whole bunch of other nasty, scary words. But it's sadly not that way with *everyone*.

Perhaps this guy is one of those folks. Perhaps to him, tossin' a pup pales in comparison to 'other' ways he could ensure not to go back to war. We'll probably never know the truth behind his actions, only what the case uncovers. I just don't think that we can totally ignore the fact that some do, in fact, come back from 'over there' really fucked up. Most can handle it. Some can't.



(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:13:24 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
As for my brother being the exception....I keep looking for proof that he is not. I have yet to find it, however. Been lookin' for a good couple of decades now. I'll let you know if I find any other examples.



I will pray that you do; find others that is.
 
k


I appreciate that, however I'm not holding out hope. Nor do I really intend to conduct a search for another. I tend to distance myself from those who can't take a joke and believe that everything can be solved by fighting. My sense of humor, to those who can't take a joke, is as you would guess, poorly received.

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:17:21 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold
"Kids today, it scares me to death to think they'll one day take over the world.  They speak so oddly, dress so unusually....and they have no concept of the world, politics, events...and they care not at all for their own future...."

(It was Socrates). One of my heroes.


The reason kids are the way they are is no surprise to me. You want to know what is wrong with them…. look at the adults they hang around with; a whole other thread.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:31:31 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

I appreciate that, however I'm not holding out hope. Nor do I really intend to conduct a search for another.


Well no, I would expect you to. Perhaps the universe will provide.
 
quote:

I tend to distance myself from those who can't take a joke and believe that everything can be solved by fighting.


This was the main idea towards the thread; substituting the word "fighting" with "violence". The video was only a vice to get us there.

The truth that this sort of thing is not exclusive to war time, or combat situations, indicates to me, there is a serious issue going on, and as some have pointed out; its been going on for a long time.

Change isn’t coming with a new president; it will start in the minds and actions of the people.

Think about it, if “man’s best friend isn’t safe, who is?

k


_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:34:20 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

I appreciate that, however I'm not holding out hope. Nor do I really intend to conduct a search for another.


Well no, I would expect you to. Perhaps the universe will provide.
 
quote:

I tend to distance myself from those who can't take a joke and believe that everything can be solved by fighting.


This was the main idea towards the thread; substituting the word "fighting" with "violence". The video was only a vice to get us there.

The truth that this sort of thing is not exclusive to war time, or combat situations, indicates to me, there is a serious issue going on, and as some have pointed out; its been going on for a long time.

Change isn’t coming with a new president; it will start in the minds and actions of the people.

Think about it, if “man’s best friend isn’t safe, who is?

k



Man's best friend has never been truly safe. Their undying devotion and love make them easy targets for those who'd do them harm. I remember having a rambunctious dog once....wouldn't stand still for anything. I had a 'friend' over one day after school who picked up and hurled a fire log right at my dog, hitting him square in the snout. That's the last time he was around my dog. He's also lucky he didn't leave my house with a limp.

It's not just mans' best friend who's unsafe, either. Have you seen the way we treat each other? We'll give money to help victims of a flood halfway around the world, and then we remark with disgust at our own homeless. Society is already fucked in the head. And in the words of "Dalton"......It'll get worse before it gets better.


< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/6/2008 6:38:46 PM >

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Marines and a puppy - 3/6/2008 6:43:51 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
Man's best friend has never been truly safe.


I dare say, niether have we.

quote:

Their undying devotion and love make them easy targets for those who'd do them harm. I remember having a rambunctious dog once....wouldn't stand still for anything. I had a 'friend' over one day after school who picked up and hurled a fire log right at my dog, hitting him square in the snout. That's the last time he was around my dog. He's also lucky he didn't leave my house with a limp.


I hear ya. 

We had a Saint Barnard when I was a kid. I tried to ride her like a pony once, she just sat. Unfortunately, my mother caught me in the act; the dog tried to attack my mother for giving me her idea of a spanking. Damn I loved that dog.

k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 3/6/2008 6:44:20 PM >

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 160
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