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Aneirin -> Europe (3/12/2008 1:52:25 PM)
I heard recently that once again those we voted into parliament have yet again denied the population the right of referendum on Europe, even though it was promised, and I believe was even part of a certain party's election promise. So, why are we not trusted to have our say, when we are trusted to vote for a cushy existance for the mp's that have denied us? What is the big problem? And as for the common man, would being part of Europe be better for us if we were in it. I care not about those in power, they consistantly let us down on so many issues, what are they scared of?

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 1:57:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin And as for the common man, would being part of Europe be better for us if we were in it. I care not about those in power, they consistantly let us down on so many issues, what are they scared of? Come on... without Europe, the United Kingdom would probably be part of NAFTA. Nobody can do it alone anymore. Europe's not that bad; come and visit, some time [;)] .

GreedyTop -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 2:23:49 PM)
can't wait to get to the UK

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 2:30:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop can't wait to get to the UK Are you moving there, Toppy?

pahunkboy -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 2:40:32 PM)
the OP is correct- self rule is best. no one wants a world govt dictating all of life

luckydog1 -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 2:44:16 PM)
Wouldn't that kick ass to have NAFTA include Iceland, Greenland, and the Nations of the UK....actually put in one of those hyper sonic trains bridge/tunnel.

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 2:51:10 PM)
The European Union takes its roots in the mid fifties with the Treaty of Rome... try and go back on something that's half a century old. Trade agreements, routes and political treaties... good luck on backing out of it. Britain didn't go along with the Euro, otherwise, she's pretty happy to be part of the EU. I know I love my European passports. Read up on the subject. Europe is very different from the United States in that it has a tradition of strong government. Even in a very liberal economy such as Britain. Even freedom of speech is trodden on, with anti hate speech laws (which I love). I'm very Europeawan... so don't attack my countwy :-) .

GreedyTop -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 2:57:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop can't wait to get to the UK Are you moving there, Toppy? eventually.. trying to work out the $$ and logistics

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 3:05:32 PM)
Well, as someone who made the opposite move, I wish you all the best :-) .

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 3:32:01 PM)
quote: Well, as someone who made the opposite move, I wish you all the best :-) . I'm a very curious guy, so forgive me....But, why? You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I enjoy your posts. You seem to have this disdain for North American living, but you chose to move here. Again this is not a negative question. I would love to leave here and spend the rest of my days living and traveling everywhere. I have a particular fascination with islands in the south Pacific. So I am not adverse to traveling. But why pick a place you have so many problems with? Surely there is something you liked about America? I'm just trying to see your positive side, Kit. I know it's there. [:)]

GreedyTop -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 3:37:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Well, as someone who made the opposite move, I wish you all the best :-) . thanks :)

Aneirin -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 3:54:28 PM)
I am not answering for kit, but I understand what you are saying, basically why come here if you don't like it. I do see everyone of every country despite the problems that exist in their day to day lives, love their country and it is a fair question to ask. I am the same about my country, it is shit, but I love it and would ask the same as yourself, if someone said much the same.I have tried living in another country, Sweden to be exact, but no place for an Englishman. I tried desparately to make it home, but it was not home,a lovely country, but not mine.I do admire those in that country that call it home, as it is a beautiful and enigmatic place. I think if I felt the urge to move again, then it would be to places where my own kind are, the US springs to mind, as does Aus , NZ or Canada.I will go where I feel welcome and where an Englishman can call home.

LadyEllen -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I heard recently that once again those we voted into parliament have yet again denied the population the right of referendum on Europe, even though it was promised, and I believe was even part of a certain party's election promise. So, why are we not trusted to have our say, when we are trusted to vote for a cushy existance for the mp's that have denied us? What is the big problem? And as for the common man, would being part of Europe be better for us if we were in it. I care not about those in power, they consistantly let us down on so many issues, what are they scared of? The answer is simple - they would lose such a referendum, howsoever it was worded and on whatsoever aspect of the EU (or all of it) that the referendum question was posed. Not necessarily because people are against the EU, but because we are kept ill informed and deliberately misinformed about the EU, what is does for us and the consequences of leaving it. The view on the streets is that the EU is a stupid waste of our time and money and influence and powers. The truth is very different. Yet it remains another manifesto promise not met - all three main parties' MPs were elected on a manifesto promise to hold a referendum on the Constitution; whatever name it is now called, the promise stands, and by reneging on that promise all three parties have broken their commitments and added to the general cynicism and mistrust of our democratic system. And yes I mean all three; had the Tories, Lib Dems (my party) and Labour backbenchers had enough about them to work together they could have forced a vote which would have led to a referendum by order of Parliament. Instead, they each chose to ripple the waters sufficiently to disrupt and prevent such cooperation, and one cannot help but wonder why? The main blame however lies squarely with the New Labour government. E

colouredin -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:30:35 PM)
quote: Lib Dems (my party) yey LE :D

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:34:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Well, as someone who made the opposite move, I wish you all the best :-) . I'm a very curious guy, so forgive me....But, why? You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I enjoy your posts. You seem to have this disdain for North American living, but you chose to move here. Again this is not a negative question. I would love to leave here and spend the rest of my days living and traveling everywhere. I have a particular fascination with islands in the south Pacific. So I am not adverse to traveling. But why pick a place you have so many problems with? Surely there is something you liked about America? I'm just trying to see your positive side, Kit. I know it's there. [:)] Aaaah... slaveboy... there are problems everywhere. Not being blind to them does not mean I don't appreciate the good points. What I liked about America is worthy of a novel. If you knew me, you would understand that as I was raised as a dual-national, with families in two european countries (France and England), I grew up to not attach any importance to nationalistic feelings... And I became a rogue... one who has no loyalty to a land. Or a flag. A nomad, I suppose? I hope you understand things better. Otherwise, feel free to cmail me.

LadyEllen -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:35:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin quote: Lib Dems (my party) yey LE :D Yes, I confess. I've been a member since 2005. Its not a problem, I can quit anytime, honest. E

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:41:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Wouldn't that kick ass to have NAFTA include Iceland, Greenland, and the Nations of the UK....actually put in one of those hyper sonic trains bridge/tunnel. I just caught up with you, luckydog, as your mail delivery is slow these days (when will service run normally again?), but that was actually quite funny. Especially the bit about "the Nations of the UK". The Crown must be quaking in her boots right now [:D] .

NorthernGent -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:41:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I heard recently that once again those we voted into parliament have yet again denied the population the right of referendum on Europe, even though it was promised, and I believe was even part of a certain party's election promise. So, why are we not trusted to have our say, when we are trusted to vote for a cushy existance for the mp's that have denied us? That's about the size of it; they know we'll vote against the treaty/constitution/amendment. Some democracy eh! quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin And as for the common man, would being part of Europe be better for us if we were in it. 'Depends what you mean by "in it". I'd like to see devolved power in England, rather than centralised through Europe. I'll take a limited amount of co-operation in certain areas, such as the environment, but when it comes to control over our economy and foreign policy, I most certainly want this kept in England. Here's another way of asking the question: why do we need to be more involved with the continental Europeans than say the Americans do, or the Japanese for that matter? We share a certain amount of history with Europe, but we have our own unique way of doing things - better or worse is open to debate - but we're English; we're different to the French and the Germans. They have grand notions of the great nation; we have limited aspirations wrapped up in the home. I prefer our way, and would vote to keep our distance from them. Plus, if the fuckers insist on sporting mullets, who can blame me?

kittinSol -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:45:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Plus, if the fuckers insist on sporting mullets, who can blame me? Calling bollocks on that (rare thing that I defend Germany but...): mullets are coming back in fashion next Fall. Trivia interlude: over.

NorthernGent -> RE: Europe (3/12/2008 4:59:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol (rare thing that I defend Germany but...) What? Germany with its strong tradition of Socialism? Far, far stronger than England...... quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol : mullets are coming back in fashion next Fall. 'No idea what fall is, but mullets never go out of fashion in Germany - there's a mullet tax - if you're caught not sporting a mullet, 5% on income.

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