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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/17/2008 11:13:08 PM

MasterWilliam55

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awwww...got me there june.....crocheting is a whole different issue alltogether.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/17/2008 11:24:23 PM

DrummerDom

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I can't figure out how to translate it from my brain to this webpage, but I think it matters whether people define their relationship according to The Lifestyle or if people define The Lifestyle according to their relationship. Does anyone get what I'm trying to say?

this post makes me feel like The Sphinx from Mystery men....if you do not master the lifestyle, the lifestyle will master you.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/17/2008 11:27:22 PM

MasterWilliam55

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I would disagree with them. I know couples that do not play in public but have a very complete lifestyle in the way we mean it. A D/s or M/s relationship does not require a certificate from the community. You do it in private, that's good enough for me.

It's nice though that you have attended a few events. It's not that important, but you can pick up a few ideas and pointers. You are definitely part of the "lifestyle" even though you may not feel your a full part of the community.

This thread is all about "lifestyle" ie. living it. The community is simply a social construct that can help us to live the reality. It's not required though.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/17/2008 11:55:06 PM

MasterWilliam55

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I think maybe you've defined the problem, and it could explain a lot. I see the lifestyle as a way of living, a set of parameters that if my realtionship agrees or is in tune with those parameters, I therefore am part of that lifestyle.

Others argue that the nature of their relationship defines the "lifestyle". This would explain many of the issues that are presented to us every day on CM. This supports the argument that "you are what you say you are". No criteria is involved.

I'm of the former opinion, but that's neither here nor there. You have succinctly identified what many of our arguments are about.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 2:56:53 AM

LadyPact

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Again, the 'used to knit, but no longer can due to physical limitations' is back to comparing apples to oranges. The first part applies the theory that the person was actively knitting. The physical ailment has changed the circumstances. It doesn't change the person's experience. Before the condition, that person may have knitted wonderful things. They have the first hand knowledge of what the knitting needles feel like, the fluidity of the motions of their hands, seeing their work accomplished where before, there was only yarn. That person, actively participated, in knitting.

Now, when I say that, don't confuse that with any other implications. I never said that person knitted in public. I didn't suggest that the person was in any type of 'knitter's club'. I didn't mention how much time they spent doing it or how many things they may have actually made. All I said was that they did it.

That's an important point for a lot of the things being discussed here. I happen to like that little acronym of wiitwd, because it really goes to the crux of this whole argument. It's that last part, the one that implies that we 'do' something, that holds the whole debate. It's that verb, that holds the action, past or present, that swings the debate for Me. It's not discussing. It's not thinking. It's not hoping, dreaming, or wishing. It's doing.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 7:29:18 AM

MasterWilliam55

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There is more to this than "play". It's a good start though.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 7:34:21 AM

MasterWilliam55

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That's an important point for a lot of the things being discussed here. I happen to like that little acronym of wiitwd, because it really goes to the crux of this whole argument. It's that last part, the one that implies that we 'do' something, that holds the whole debate. It's that verb, that holds the action, past or present, that swings the debate for Me. It's not discussing. It's not thinking. It's not hoping, dreaming, or wishing. It's doing.

Yes, I couldn't agree more.

[/quote]

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 10:04:01 AM

rook42

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I happen to like that little acronym of wiitwd...

Apt, although I didn't recognize the acronym for a bit. I still think there's starting to be an issue with We, though. In this particular discussion, it's a slight tangent... Writing an action does not equal doing it physically is kind of self evident.

Do---> We. True.
Not do---> Not We. True.
We do, them not do, therefore them not = us.
True. Kink does not equal vanilla, either, but when you hear someone deriding muggles every two seconds, its problematic. "Our group is better than their group" opens up to "groups can be inherently better". Seeing as the majority seem to be nonsexual dogmatic wingnuts(as well as surprisingly stupid), it might not be so good to endorse this ideology. Otherwise lowIQed nonsexual monotheism is the path of life. I'd rather like to consider my brain and naughty bits to have value.

There are other commonalities between people other than their actions. As a knitter, I would still be interested in speaking with someone who has read every knitting book without firsthand experience; heck, they may be a knitting genius. While the value of some of their input might be suspect, there's still a commonality of interest, and it's still likely they have beneficial paradigms/principles that I do not. Hell, maybe they ARE really good at crocheting. In my own semantics, whether it's TG, sexuality, fetish, poly, or power dynamic, I used to consider any alternative means in a relationship to be an alternative lifestyle. Then I found out there was a "THE LIFESTYLE", and had to change my verbage to fit the group mind.

If you're interested in the effects of mind altering substances(Brace yourself, this is a rough metaphor- it's the one that popped into my head though), it's ok to ask a biochemist. They may not give you the same depth of information or feeling that a shaman might, but they still have content to add. Are they a shaman? No. But it still might be counterproductive to marginalize them.

An avid reader may not necessarily be a writer, but they still have an appreciation of literature. Another bad metaphor, as I personally think writing is agonizing, whereas kink IS better than thinking or imagining. But true in principle. Talking with a well-read individual about writing is not a horrible idea-

No, it doesnt change the fact that they aren't a writer. If they call themselves one, they are lying or using vastly different semantics... But they still can have a very high value in their own experience. And getting snarky when they use the word "writing" could get annoying (Not that anyone has- conversations here have been directly in line with the topic of discussion).

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 11:06:22 AM

DelilahDeb

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My lifestyle is how I live. My community is where I interact with others.
I live alone, by choice. By some folks' definition, that alone makes me "not a BDSM lifestyler"...yet--
I socialize with BDSM folks at local munches several times a month.
I maintain a frequent, regular play date with a local sub who is not my primary lover/kink relationship nor am I his.
I socialize *AND* play with other BDSM folks at least a couple of times a month.
I spend time on CollarMe-originated communications because it extends my acquaintance among
-people I might wish to play with (real time)
-people who might wish to play with me (real time)
-people with whom I can discuss the realities of real-time BDSM activities and relationships
So, am I real, or not? (I don't care, actually, just posing the question.)
But my subs think I'm real...when the flogger hits, when the ropes snug, when they come.

Now, a very similar pattern is true of an entirely different portion of my life--because I'm a witch.
And when I was starting out in my spiritual witchy studies, although I read published written resources,
my only contact with other witches (as far as I knew, most of us don't go around with a pentacle
tattooed on our foreheads!) was online, on BBS and later on AOL (before it hooked to the Internet).

Did that make me less a witch? My gods didn't think so.

But at that same time, I met--online--a great many newbies and wannabes and posers.

The posers I compare to the online Gorean masters.
The wannabes I compare to the self-identified subs with no experience who claim to have no limits.
And the newbies are generally newbie-like...eager, fearful, shy, brazen, clumsy, eloquent, human.

And in the decade between my first couple of times bottoming, and attending my first munch,
I wasn't active in the scene at all. Did that make me less kinky? But it did mean I wasn't "in the lifestyle".

So much of life is a choice...who we are, what we are, how others see us.
Me, I think the OP is venting frustration with the self-deluded online playas.

Delilah Deb

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 11:17:40 AM

camille65

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Reading all the rules that people say one has to live by to be real, makes me rather glad to be not real. Seriously, why would I even want to have to fit into their ideas? Especially when I don't even like their online personas.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 11:27:27 AM

HeidiAnn

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Ohh, what a thread! Got three more pages to it while i was reading though it, lol.

i work on social sector and have had the opportunity to work with physically disabled people too. Some people are never in their lives able to have sex because of a disability, does that mean they can't define their own sexual identity as gay/bi/straight or whatever it is they feel it to be?

i do understand that experience is important, it molds us as people and take us to deeper depths. And in our line of work you can too often see what not having the chance to experience things can do to your emotional growth.

But i feel the question here is about who has the right to set the standards of identity. Is it about the individuals experiences, or does the society or other members of the particular identity have the right to "norm" the person by it's standards.

i have learned to be very careful with norming people, telling them what they are or not.

heidi

< Message edited by HeidiAnn -- 3/18/2008 11:30:11 AM >

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 11:40:49 AM

stella41b

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The crux of the whole WIITWD matter isn't to 'do'. Anybody can 'do'.

The crux of the whole WIITWD matter is simply 'to be'. Not to 'appear' but 'to be'.

The only person you ever really need to be 'true' or 'real' to is yourself. If you are, then it comes across. Hence what does it matter what anyone else thinks anyway?

They're not you.

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RE: New to the Lifestyle ...or just online? - 3/18/2008 11:43:19 AM

closetmonkey

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The opinion here: Anything that can make me cum without touching me, is real. (grins wickedly)

I DO distinguish between real-life play and roleplay though. I find them both equally valid, and I think for some they co-exist, for others they're seperate... and clearly from the posts I read here, to some- one or the other is unacceptable.

For me, real life is about trust, and playing with personal limits. Real life is about Real Life. (it's about weather you meet someone at the dor, naked but for a collar, and on your knees... or weather you greet them with a hug and a 'feel like roleplaying tonight?') Real life is 'did you wash the dishes?' It can be sexy, or it can be hard. It can me satisfying, or it can be too much. It's... different. That's all. :)

My attraction to online fun is purely the creative aspect. I can sit at a computer or keyboard two feet from the person I am playing with, and it is still that special kind of fun. For ME, it has nothing to do with annonymity or safety of the emotional sort!

In my mind, /anything/ can happen. You can do anything at all, no matter if it it something you would (or even could!) do in real life, or not. You can set a perfect scene, and never worry about the cost or reality of the situation. A whip is perfectly wielded everytime. A hand can caress with "massive muscles that amaze you with the softness of the touches they can give, when so inclined..." or they can become "the delicate hands of one who has never had an ounce of work in the world... save perhaps the work they now seek to apply to you now..."

Roleplay for me, is not about weather or not I WOULD kneel before a Master- it's about the sheer pleasure of being able to create in words, a fantasy to play in WITH someone else. Someone else who exists in the Real World too.

I'll never be a 24/7 person... but I will also never be happy to just 'play' online, or in text, or on a weekend lark.

I will always have deep respect for the 'lifestyle' in whatever form it takes!

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