Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:02:43 AM)

Okay, this thread is prompted by an email conversation I had with Cjan this morning. In addition to several conversations I've had recently with other people.

I am 45, closing in on 46. I don't look like I did when I was 26. I am larger, my breasts sag more, I've got a few silver hairs, I can see a change in the texture of the skin on my hands, neck and upper chest. I cannot eat like I could at 26 and have the same body. I feel the ache of bad knees more. Little things really, none of them a real bother or upsetting. Still, they all point towards a clock that keeps marching on. The reality is, I am good with that. And strangely, that surprises some people.

Everyday we see examples of "perfect beauty". It is the world we live in. More often, those examples are images either on the television, in print or online. Even as most of us are aware that not only the subject is manipulated, the images themselve always are. We still compare our lives to these images, and all too often, our insecurities find ourselves and our lives lacking. Our homes are not as well decorated or clean. The flowers in our gardens are not as perfect as those on the packets the seeds come in. The food we prepare rarely looks like the example shown with the recipe. And on and on and on.

Last night I was discussing the explosion of plastic surgery in our culture. When did that look, especially for entertainers of a certain age, become the norm? We've all seen it, both in men and women, the freaky, taunt, perfect skin, plastic looking face. Most will agree it is not attractive at all. So, why does it continue? Why is it becoming the norm? Directors are struggling to find actors that can actually express emotion with their face. Yet, those that don't get the work are criticized by the media and don't get work either.

Now, myself, as one of artistic bent, have always found greater beauty in the imperfect. I prefer a tree that has been twisted and scarred by nature rather than one that was perfectly pruned. An aged stone wall over a newly built one. The face of an elder with years of joy and sorrow etched into it more than a babies.

Do a google search on black and white art photos. More often than not you will find a large percentage of aged and/or imperfect subjects. People that are not classically beautiful, nature in violent display, man made items that are broken and weathered. To me those images are beautiful. Obviously I am not alone since they exist to please others.

So why then, for our own attempts at reality do we strive for perfection? Why can't we see more of the beauty in the imperfect in ourselves and our own lives? Why is a scar on our body hideous and something to hide, instead of a celebration of imperfection and survival? Why do we prune and demand the tree in our yard be perfect, yet one that is not, be worthy of a photo in an art gallery?

Obviously I am not expecting all my questions answered. Just musing on something I see more and more of that troubles me. I wonder what such unrealistic expectations do, not only to individuals but humankind as a whole. Will we ever stop appreciating the unique and individual, the less than perfect? The perfectly wonderfully NOT perfect! The flaws and character marks that make something or someone, vitally "them" rather than an assembly line image. I hope not.




kittinSol -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:09:05 AM)

Really interesting thread, Tigresse. I reckon that our culture is terrified of death. As people equate ageing with their (inevitable) forthcoming death, they feel that erasing the signs of ageing pushes the final moment away. This is why "real people" of a certain age are seen as being so frightening in our culture. Have you noticed how celebs are judged, if they look their age? It's become a terrifying image, instead of a natural process.

Death is the ultimate taboo.




RCdc -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:17:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Do a google search on black and white art photos. More often than not you will find a large percentage of aged and/or imperfect subjects. People that are not classically beautiful, nature in violent display, man made items that are broken and weathered. To me those images are beautiful. Obviously I am not alone since they exist to please others.


Hehe - Ya say Darcy and I are aged and weathered Lady T.[:D]
 
the.dark.




LaTigresse -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:27:02 AM)

No, but you are beautiful to me.

Kittin, I suppose maybe it does come down to a fear of death. I never thought it all the way through to that final scary bit.




RCdc -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:27:12 AM)

Sorry Lady T.... staying on topic now.
 
Personally, I work in Black and white as a preference because I like the lines and shadows of age and it's more defined in monochrome than you get in colour.  Darcy is big on urban - me I can't catch that and am better with people.  That said, I know someone (plugs Aneirin again coz he is too modest) who does amazing coloured images with old objects, stuff that is rotting and rusty.  And he brings their beauty in age alive.
 
I'm not against plastic surgery.  After all, we paint our faces and nails and hair - don tattoos - hell, even false nails are plastic surgery.
 
It's because people like to second guess what others think beauty is - it's the easy opt out.  Instead of going to more time consuming and difficult route of discovering what beauty really is.
 
the.dark.




RCdc -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:28:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

No, but you are beautiful to me.


*just melts into a puddle*
 
the.dark.




LaTigresse -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:32:05 AM)

I agree with you. While it may sound as though I hate plastic surgery, I don't. I know it is quite valuable to many. I also believe we should have the freedom to alter our bodies as we see fit.

I think more than bashing the surgery, I question what drives so many to do it, especially to the extremes.




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:34:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Hehe - Ya say Darcy and I are aged and weathered...


No, she said "...twisted and scarred by nature..."

See? Now it makes sense!

[:D]




kittinSol -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:36:47 AM)

Beauty is difficult to define - I can go on about aesthetics all you want though. I recognise beauty when I see it. It's such a cliché, isn't it?




Owner59 -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:36:59 AM)

My idea of beauty?

I like big butts and I will not lie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41APzy5kqBU




cjan -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:37:06 AM)

Goddamn, what an interesting topic.

Beauty, to me, is in the natural world. And we, as human beings , are part of it. So, I appreciate the beauty of natural "imperfection". It's not imperfection at all. It's perfectly natural.

A weathered face, a twisted tree,  a tea cup , made by hand and fired in a pit,or a fine tall "perfect" redwood...all beautiful.

What I find not beautiful are attempts to alter nature in whatever way. "Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot". Plastic surgery that makes people look like insecure, tight sausages.

Thanks for the topic, OP.





kittinSol -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:37:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My idea of beauty?

I like big butts and I will not lie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41APzy5kqBU


You and your bottom humour... you're on the wrong thread [:D] .




DiurnalVampire -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:38:28 AM)

Threes a song by Moxy Fruvous that is caled Medicine Show that has a line "It takes work, but it can be done, to look 23 at 51" and "Beauty is something Money buys"
People think that by looking younger, they will somehow feel younger, and last longer, in their industry as long as live longer and better.
I prefer being healthy. I might not be the best looking person out there, but I really dont particularly want to be a fashion model or anyone else who NEEDS their looks to make their money. If I had to worry that the slightest little imperfection could end my career, I suppose I would lose my mind a bit as well. There are some actors and such that have had minor surgeries and look fine, maybe even better. And others who have gone so overboard as to be almost unrecognizable as themselves anymore.

DV




colouredin -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:39:24 AM)

I think there is a differance between beauty and attractive. I think that these famous, modified people can be seen as attractive but that doesnt make them beautiful. Beautiful is something a little more real, there are beautiful art works or photographs of people but I dont think that means that the person themselves are beautiful.

My sister is very attractive like stupidly so, but she isnt beautiful to me. Beauty for me sort of implies something in the eyes, a mystique and serinity, soul and depth. Someone can be beautiful but not be classically attractive, in my opinion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW09gNfLyPc this woman when she smiles I think is one of the most beautiful I have seen, she isnt classically attractive shes a bit bigger and all that, but when she sings songs like this you can tell shes in love, she sings to her husband (the guy on the guitar) and that makes her beautiful to me.

Apperance has become a commodity, we need it, we loathe ourselves if we dont have it, we can buy everything now including a new face. Which I find really sad, Im not classically attractive I am 'pretty' but not turn in the street wolf whistle attractive, and that was a huge issue for me growing up with two very attractive sisters and three very very attractive step sisters, i was always the fat one (still am) but I came to love my curves anyways and as they say its only skin deep.#

Edited to add

I was just talking to my Dad about it, and thought of maralyn now she is attractive, sensual, sexy, appealing all those things but I am not sure I would call her beautiful.




seeksfemslave -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:40:00 AM)

In extremis this obeisance to "glamorous" beauty is a peculiarly American "thing".
It does not exist to anything like the same extent in Europe.
Mid 40's is still quite young and you IMO are still in your prime.

I actually think a lot of it is due to Hollywood/Television and the images it creates.

I like to look at porn and I'm cheesed off with perfect female shapes or beautiful but characterless faces.
I much prefer a bit of a worn image with saggy titts.
A mature lesbo with a slim clean cut younger woman excites me... a lot lol




BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:41:50 AM)

LaT,
You have c-mail... :-)




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:43:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41APzy5kqBU


Dude, show some class - perhaps a modicum of restraint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt1Uj08YhOI




kittinSol -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:45:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

In extremis this obeisance to "glamorous" beauty is a peculiarly American "thing".
It does not exist to anything like the same extent in Europe.
Mid 40's is still quite young and you IMO are still in your prime.



Notwithstanding's seeks coarseness, I'll agree with him on the point above. European PEOPLE are much more secure about their looks. Superficial beauty is less of a valuable commodity over there.

To me, it's difficult to tell whether somebody is beautiful just from a photograph. The photograph itself can be beautiful; and the person may be made to look attractive from the photograph. I can tell if they have "basic good looks". But to judge beauty, I have to encounter it in person. Beauty is a mysterious, immaterial thing that occupies a physicality. Which is why people with "unattractive" features can be beautiful; beauty is a transcendance.




RCdc -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:46:46 AM)

Hey - You copycat!   I posted that on a thread earlier today...greatminds an all that[:D]
 
the.dark.




colouredin -> RE: Beauty..........what does it mean to you? (3/13/2008 8:47:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

To me, it's difficult to tell whether somebody is beautiful just from a photograph. The photograph itself can be beautiful; and the person may be made to look attractive from the photograph. I can tell if they have "basic good looks". But to judge beauty, I have to encounter it in person. Beauty is a mysterious, immaterial thing that occupies a physicality. Which is why people with "unattractive" features can be beautiful; beauty is a transcendance.


You said it a lot better than I did




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