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why - 3/16/2008 12:41:40 PM   
Kalista07


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i've been wondering the past couple of days why people who are not prescribed anti-depressant medication are so strongly opposed to it? Seriously, i can think of lots of reasons (none of them either justified or rational) but would like to hear from some people themselves. It seems to me that some people are so blatantly against anti-depressants that they'd rather throw away the baby with the bath water so to speak.
Thanks for your help in providing me some understanding.
Kali



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RE: why - 3/16/2008 12:47:43 PM   
christine1


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hello...i've never been on anti depressants so i don't understand their value personally, but i do have a very good friend who struggled with depression for years and finally went to a doc and got on something and it has made all the difference in the world for her.  i can see their value for her and how they have helped her though, and being the dear friend she is, it makes me happy.  i have nothing against medication if it's helping the person. 

i don't know if that answered your question, it's just my view.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 12:54:14 PM   
Rule


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Any medication has side effects.
 
What if being depressed is one's purpose in life?
 
When I "died" as a child I was maximally depressed, but I did not know it. It sucked. Then I read about clinically depressed people and I thought they were worse off than I - they were not.
 
Shortly afterward I got a new and terrible kind of life. With hindsight I sometimes think that it would have been better to have remained dead.
 
I will not deny anyone the medication that he thinks he needs. Nevertheless I am inclined to give the Gorean answer: play the hand that you were dealt.

< Message edited by Rule -- 3/16/2008 12:55:31 PM >

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:01:39 PM   
Kalista07


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Rule,
Thank You for You honest and forthright reply. i suppose my confusion comes in through a somewhat theoretical place. Where does  "God's" role come into this? i mean what i hear You saying (please correct me if i'm wrong) is that You were designed to be depressed correct? Well, who exactly determined this? And if in fact that's true, then why exactly were anti-depressants designed?
Thanks,
Kali



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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:07:41 PM   
xxblushesxx


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But then, we should never go to the dentist, get our hair done, take heart or cholesterol medicine, or build houses as shelter. We need to just play the hand we were dealt.
I honestly don't have opinions either way on anti-depressants except I am sure there are those who need them to live a full productive life.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:25:34 PM   
Termyn8or


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Look, if you took one pill and you were fixed I would probably be all for it, but it doesn't work that way. Want to depend on a drug for the rest of your life ?

I also believe that people are depressed because life sucks, in other words they are calling a normal response to the conditions a form of insanity. I believe that people who are depressed are so because there is a mental skill they have not yet acquired, which is to step back.

It is a little hard to explain, they bombed a hospital in Iraq and dozens of children were killed. Hundreds more have died for lack of medical care. Do I care ? Hell yes I care that my tax dollars did this.

There's a guy standing out by the driveway of the local DIY type store holding a sign that says "will work for food". This guy is not panhandling money for his next bottle, he needs food. What do you think when you see that ?

I think we see so many depressing things in life that we are overloaded with it and those who are unable to disassociate from it will become depressed. Being able, in a way, to be ignorant is actually a skill now. What did Orwell say in 1984 ? Ignorance is bliss.

This is not complete ignorance, but more of a disassociation with the issue. It is not that you don't care, it is that you are not the one dealing with it. Your life is what you need to get on with, no matter what. People dead ½ way around the world is a problem, but you have to realize it is not YOUR problem.

Some of us just can't be bombarded with this every day and keep the proverbial stiff upper lip, and if we turn to a chemical solution all we are doing is numbing ourselves to the situation. This "Mother's little helper" makes sure we will never learn the mental skills needed for survival in this day and age.

I am also vehemently opposed to giving children SSRIs such as Ritalin. This may sound wrong but I believe it's right, beat them until they learn to control themselves. But I am not a monster, I am talking about using a paddle. Sometimes it is necessary. But they learn.

Also they can't really identify problems all that well. I never paid attention in school, I would be in English reading about electronics. If they had put me on drugs back then I doubt I would be what I am today. Broken home, guns, violence, dead family and friends, I would be a prime candidate.

Twenty years ago I was so nihilistic, so negative. That is because of the state of affairs in the world and in my life at the time. I learned my way out of it. I learned to say "not my problem", "not my job" and "none of my business". This all in the theoretical sense, because I do care, but I have built up a mental defense against it. Life still sucks, but I no longer let it get to me.

The whole way life works sucks. Sometimes it seems as though you are spinning your wheels. You can try and try and get nowhere because that's the way the world works.

And then people have idiosyncracies(sp) that inhibit them from forming or participating in a meaningful relationship with others. Some are shy. I can cure shyness almost, but it is very strong in some people.

Only you make yourself feel emotion, and only you can stop it. You grow out of it, you learn to go on no matter what the world looks like. You must. Chemical hapiness is not for me thank you.

T

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:31:10 PM   
xxblushesxx


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The stiff upper lip thing does not work for those who are clinically depressed.
Some have to take heart medicine for the rest of their lives, or insulin, it's just necessary for some.
Others, not so much.
Oh, and I've known 2 children who HAD to have the ritalin, or they were uncontrollable.
It does say something when a drug that is supposed to rev you up, calms you down...which is exactly what the ritalin does to these children.
Yes, it is over prescribed, and teachers/doctors have been far to quick to jump on the 'medicate' bandwagon.
That doesn't mean it's not necessary for some, though.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:33:47 PM   
christine1


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termyn8or...i see your points.  life is full of sucky shit, no matter who you are, and i agree with you, some people can deal with it better than others.  your view is a bit negative but i can't disagree with it at all.  i'm not sure what i'm trying to say right now, but i'm glad i can see the shit and try to pull myself up from it and make things better and find joy and happiness.

as for those who can't, i dont' discount them for needing  medicine to do so...how can i judge someone for that?  we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:34:19 PM   
Pyrrsefanie


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Antidepressants should, in my opinion, always be used in conjunction with (NOT in place of) regular therapy sessions.  They're not a cure-all and certainly not a simple fix.

Of course, not everyone who's depressed will necessarily need them.  Some can benefit greatly just from dialectical behavior therapy, which focuses on teaching the person to recognize negative feelings and to reflect on why they're feeling that way instead of letting themselves get overwhelmed by them.  And of course there are times when someone who is suffering from situational depression rather than chronic clinical depression may opt to skip antidepressants because of their often troublesome side effects.

This is just my two cents, though.  I've been on various antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications since I was fifteen and have found that during periods of time where I was not going to regular visits with a therapists my moods tended to go on the downswing.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:40:47 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i've been wondering the past couple of days why people who are not prescribed anti-depressant medication are so strongly opposed to it? Seriously, i can think of lots of reasons (none of them either justified or rational) but would like to hear from some people themselves. It seems to me that some people are so blatantly against anti-depressants that they'd rather throw away the baby with the bath water so to speak.
Thanks for your help in providing me some understanding.
Kali




Think of your body as an engine that requires a finely tuned chenistry.   If your body needs that specific <insert chemical here> and you can hve it in the correct dosages whith pills great.  Unfortunately nothing regulates your body better then a working body of course.

Are they bad per se, no.

Its the way in which they become the cure for everything and these asshole doctors give the crap out like candy.

Oh hemorroids?  Here take effexor!

I think you get my point.





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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:41:51 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

But then, we should never go to the dentist, get our hair done, take heart or cholesterol medicine, or build houses as shelter. We need to just play the hand we were dealt.
I honestly don't have opinions either way on anti-depressants except I am sure there are those who need them to live a full productive life.
Well, they have benefitted me. I can't quantify how much, but I can say it's a bloody good thing Celexa exists. If someone has never had a Major Depressive episode, then they really cannot fathom how disabling one can be. And if a person has one, chances are good there are one or more awaiting him.  Some people don't survive.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 1:56:07 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

Antidepressants should, in my opinion, always be used in conjunction with (NOT in place of) regular therapy sessions.  They're not a cure-all and certainly not a simple fix.


I have to echo this thought...

I am not against anti-depressants, but I am against a GP prescribing anti-depressants and giving the patient the impression that if they take this pill it will solve things. 

I was prescribed anti-depressants several years ago by a psychiatrist.  What I was told is that the drugs would help pick me up just enough so that I was capable of doing the rest of the work to get well.  I was only given them after it was clear that therapy was not going to work by itself and that I needed the additional assistance.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 2:02:18 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Look, if you took one pill and you were fixed I would probably be all for it, but it doesn't work that way. Want to depend on a drug for the rest of your life ?


We eat and drink to give the body what it needs.  Where is the harm if an antidepressant is included on the list of needs?


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RE: why - 3/16/2008 2:05:53 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


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they have many side effects...for me all they did was make me vomit 3 times a day and nearly kill me in doing so with my heart condition.

that was paxil and celexa....(no not at the same time)

so ill never take any anti again...or drug for that matter...unless it is a must for my heart condition...and actually helps me.



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RE: why - 3/16/2008 2:07:37 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

Antidepressants should, in my opinion, always be used in conjunction with (NOT in place of) regular therapy sessions.  They're not a cure-all and certainly not a simple fix.


I have to echo this thought...

I am not against anti-depressants, but I am against a GP prescribing anti-depressants and giving the patient the impression that if they take this pill it will solve things. 

I was prescribed anti-depressants several years ago by a psychiatrist.  What I was told is that the drugs would help pick me up just enough so that I was capable of doing the rest of the work to get well.  I was only given them after it was clear that therapy was not going to work by itself and that I needed the additional assistance.

Knight's Kyra


Permit me to echo your echo

I myself prefer naturopathic approaches (e.g., St John's Wort), but even then, the rationale is to alleviate the condition enough to allow me to work on improving my life overall.

Medications are not a panacea, but properly applied they are an essential part of living well.


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RE: why - 3/16/2008 2:22:15 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Some have to take heart medicine for the rest of their lives, or insulin, it's just necessary for some...Original: xxblushesxx 


quote:

Diabetes is a disease with a known physical cause.
No physical cause has been found for any of today's so-called mental illnesses.

The mode of action of insulin is known: It is a hormone that instructs or causes cells to uptake dietary glucose (sugar).
In contrast, the modes of action of psychiatry's drugs are unknown.

Insulin restores a normal biological function, namely, normal glucose (or sugar) metabolism.
Psychiatric drugs interfere with a normal biological function, namely, normal neuroreceptor functioning.

Insulin is a hormone that is found naturally in the body.
Psychiatry's drugs are not normally found in the body.

Insulin gives a diabetic's body a capability it would not have in the absence of insulin, namely, the ability to metabolize dietary sugar normally.
Psychiatric drugs have an opposite kind of effect: They take away (mental) capabilities the person would have in the absence of the drug.

Insulin affects the body rather than mind.
Psychiatric drugs disable the brain and hence the mind, the mind being the essence of the real self.

snips from the article titled:  Like taking Insulin for Diabetes? by author Lawrence Stevens


quote:

...why people who are not prescribed anti-depressant medication are so strongly opposed to it?...Original:Kalista07

 
some folks become activists about a particular issue, because it has touched their lives, either first-hand or through experiencing their loved ones, friends or community members suffering.  there are quite a few websites dedicated to spreading activist information on a variety of topics.
 
here's a few links that might give you some ideas at what all the uproar is about for some folks who have axes to grind with respect to anti-depressants, psychiatry, etc.:
 
http://www.stopshrinks.org/
http://lindval.tripod.com/neurolepticsdamagehumanbrains/
http://www.szasz.com/
http://www.breggin.com/
http://www.adhdfraud.org/
http://www.icspp.org/

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 2:32:31 PM   
xxblushesxx


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Yes, I meant to put in that the reasons people were taking insulin and heart medicine for the rest of their lives was that they were due to medical issues. (because a previous poster had a problem with medication being taken for 'the rest of your life'.
I tried to clarify after posting, but my computer was being snarky, and I had to shut it down for a bit.

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 2:45:00 PM   
Daddysredhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
The stiff upper lip thing does not work for those who are clinically depressed.


This is so true.  If you have never gone to the gates of hell due to this horrible condition, you are blessed.

When the brain's chemicals start doing things that adversely affect not only your mood, but your health in general, it is like watching a train wreck with no emergency signal.

Therapy and medication can be a lifesaving combination for those who have tried other things to no avail.  People who tend to say "get over it" to those who are clinically depressed have no idea what kind of pain they are causing those who are suffering.  If that person could just "get over it," he or she probably would.  Watching yourself become a shell of who you once were, or completely unrecognizable, is hell on earth in itself.

Be kind to those who may need the extra help.  If you have nothing else to offer, just be a friend.  People who need meds for diabetes or some other chronic condition are rarely told to "suck it up" by others the way those who have had to deal with a diagnosed emotional/mental disorder have.  Just because you can't see the injury doesn't mean that it hurts any less.

Respectfully,
DRH

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 3:09:23 PM   
Termyn8or


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Remember Columbine.

I was almost going to agree with kyra, that antidepressants might be good for the duration of the therapy, but I can't cotton to it for one reason that just accurred to me, but it seems valid.

This is not the reason, just an analogy to illustrate the point. When you go to the optometrist and sit in the chair and they put this big thing in front of your face with which they can change lenses and all that to determine you visual accuity, if you already wear glasses, you take them off. If you wear contact lenses you take them out. In fact alot of optometrists used to administer eyedrops, which I think was a local anesthetic/barbiturate sort of drug to relax the eye, dilate the pupil which narrows the depth of focus, allowing them to get a more accurate reading.

The depressed need someone to help them work through it, not to be a zombie. And that's what it is, if you don't care about something you did care about before you took the pill, what are you ? You're better off getting high or drunk. You do learn though, that all your problems are still there the next day, something my Mother drilled into my head.

Even though I had studied some psychology, you just don't know how bad I got. Back then I had a list of people I was going to kill, and then kill myself. Then I even lost the ire to kill them and had a noose setup to do the deed, get it over with. This was not a cry for help, I told noone. I was so sure I was going to do it.

With the strap around my neck I backed out at the last minute. It was the reality and the finality of it that kicked in. I had previously tried to go to sleep with a plastic bag on my head, but that didn't work either. I am lucky that some wierd shit didn't happen because I could be gone now.

I am nowhere near trying anything like that again, and all I did was drink and smoke, which does nothing. I learned my way out of it. I am in control of me. This is the only me I'll ever be.

Sometimes today I see the story of someone who really has it bad in life, in fact it happened recently. They were an inspiration in a way and I thought to myself "God damn, I was such a whineybaby".

The Eagles have a very good song called "Get Over It". I think they describe the problem quite well. They get tough on the matter, as I will now.

You got raped ? Did you get shot in the face ? I did. Am I afraid of guns, hell no, in fact I am in the market for more. I got over it. Funny though, asleep on the floor in front of the TV months later I relived it in a dream. I never told anyone.

I must say though, that everyone does not have the options I had. If you are depressed you need good friends, intelligent ones. Talking can be very therapudic. But you need the right kind of friends. Not everybody has that.

Nowadays I try to be that kind of friend when I can. The negativity of my younger years is gone. Yes the world still sucks but I look at myself and say "It ain't all that bad". For me anyway. I got this tripped out job that nobody in their right mind would ever quit, but I threatened to last Thrusday. I never intended to quit even though I packed up my tools. It was to make a point.

Most attempts at suicide are calls for help, like me threatening to quit was to say "MotherF ing listen dammit". My comtemplated suicides were not, they were private. The last one with the noose though, lemme say this, when you get that close it changes you.

Once you realize that you only get one life, that knowledge is taken to heart so to speak, at least it was for me. I decided that I would have a go at it. I quit and found another job, excised a few people from my life and started to live day by day.

I ended the drama and then had time for introspection. For a time I was practically a workaholic and I have, and had earning power. I had two jobs and a side business in the basement. Problem there is I got used to making alot of money.

Downside, after a few trips to FL and a few other things I am forty grand in debt. Upside, I can afford to pay the bill every month and the house is paid off.

Downside, I have less friends. Upside, I have better friends.

When you are depressed all you can see is the downside.

I try to be the right kind of friend. I am always honest, even if it hurts. But if I was not like that who would (or should) take me seriously ? So in that light I say, GET OVER IT.

I know it's not easy from personal experience. Being able to function in a hostile environment is a skill. Learn that skill. In a way that is saying "Grow up".

Harsh ? Yes. Truth ? Absolutely.

T

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RE: why - 3/16/2008 3:11:05 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
The stiff upper lip thing does not work for those who are clinically depressed.


This is so true.  If you have never gone to the gates of hell due to this horrible condition, you are blessed.

When the brain's chemicals start doing things that adversely affect not only your mood, but your health in general, it is like watching a train wreck with no emergency signal.

Therapy and medication can be a lifesaving combination for those who have tried other things to no avail.  People who tend to say "get over it" to those who are clinically depressed have no idea what kind of pain they are causing those who are suffering.  If that person could just "get over it," he or she probably would.  Watching yourself become a shell of who you once were, or completely unrecognizable, is hell on earth in itself.

Be kind to those who may need the extra help.  If you have nothing else to offer, just be a friend.  People who need meds for diabetes or some other chronic condition are rarely told to "suck it up" by others the way those who have had to deal with a diagnosed emotional/mental disorder have.  Just because you can't see the injury doesn't mean that it hurts any less.

Respectfully,
DRH

This is by far the best comment i've seen on this subject. I wouldn't wish depression on my worst enemy. It's completely debilitating, and keeps you from functioning on even the most basic level. No it isn't "the blues", it's feeling that there is no point in doing anything, being unable to get out of bed, crying nonestop for hours at a time.
 
"Get over it" is commonly heard as is "Are you over it yet". People lose patience when recovery isn't instantaneous, but medication can take several weeks - yes WEEKS to work fully. Next to chronic pain, it is the most misunderstood illness there is. Just because the illness isn't visible does not mean it doesn't exist....i wasn't going to speak up because my bouts of depression are noone's business but some of the comments here were making me upset. So, here's the truth from someone who's been there and crawled out of the pit..
 
Phoenix

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