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Aswad -> RE: free woman????????????? (3/21/2008 4:09:25 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kittinSol
I understand Aswad's desire to defend Gor - but I think many on this thread are venting a little, safe as we are from the wrath of some of the Gor people - not everyone over there is as open minded as he is.
I'm not defending anything, but simply attempting to dispel some confusion, while participating in the thread.
quote:
If I go on a Gor thread and argue that women are NOT naturally submissive, I think we both know what will happen (even if I take a year's worth of classes on diplomacy, which I admit isn't my strong point).
Yup. You'll end up having a lot of people challenging that view, and some morons just flaming you. Kind of like mentioning clitoridectomy, no-limits, differences between subs and slaves, scat play, diapers, human toilets, roman showers, animals, sissification, breath play, or a bunch of other topics, will end up with a bunch of noise on this "side" of the boards. You've seen me trying to provide a voice of reason in at least some of those threads, as I also do on the other "side," and there are others who do the same (but post less frequently).
I've always pretty much suggested that there's a one-sigma shift in the peak of the distribution between genders, that's it. And I've always said that if the guy can't inspire that submission, he hasn't earned it. Hell, to be frank, if he can't, then she really deserves a better man. It's not about women bowing down to men. It's about pairing those women that will submit with a man that is worth submitting to, where she can be all that she can be, rather than diminishing herself.
And some women are dominant; those should obviously look for a submissive male.
It's not exactly rocket science; some people just complicate it a bit.
Or confuse the fantasy for a reference on reality.
quote:
One of the troubles I have with Gor is the rigidity of its thinking: heretics who deviate even slightly from Norman's fantasy are given regular dressing downs; and submissives (male or female) really have no voice, as Gor is such a society of extremes (either slave or master, but nothing in between).
Some are rigidly dogmatic. Others are not. Just like anywhere. It's a human trait, not a Gorean one.
And submissive FWs do have a voice, but most aren't using it as they probably should.
Submissive FMs have a bit more of a challenging time, due to prejudices.
As for slave or master, it's actually free or slave; master/mistress is just an appelation to be used by slaves in addressing the free.
The reason there is no middle ground is two-fold: (A) in real life, we all live on Earth, where the law does not recognize slavery, which makes it a matter of identifying with one of the statuses that are recognized, both of which were legal statuses (citizen or slave) in the fantasy; and (B) Goreans do not recognize entitlement, including the entitlement to freedom, so unless somebody has it in them to make the choice to remain free at any cost, then they're a slave, whether anybody has collared them or not. Of course, given the laws in the West, no Gorean who considers him/herself a citizen would break that law for the convenience of having a slave around.
Thing is, as usual (in Gorean lifestyles), it's not about the slaves.
It's about freedom, and you either have it, or you don't.
Health,
al-Aswad.
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