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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:25:47 AM

fairerthanshe

Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

I'll say it again: there is no such thing as a no limits sub.

We have the limits of possibility-if nothing else.

Try ordering a sub to fly to the moon on a doughnut.

Greetings,

and then watch her cry with knowledge of her failure...her utter and complete worthlessness for being unable to satisfy this whim of her Master...oh the horror, oh the shame...

tongue in cheek ~ fairer

_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 21

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:25:55 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Yes.

What people don't understand about a lack of limits comes from paranoia for the most part.

It's really just about trusting the judgement and ethics of a competent Top.

I hear what you're saying Leatherist, but how can a sub/slave/bottom be expected to trust someone they don't know? It's one thing to build up to a no limits relationship, quite another to meet someone and trust them by saying "okay, no limits at all, do what you like", i think trust can only come with time.

Phoenix

I didn't mention anything about a timeline. Just that it needed to be there. I'm off to work my day job-have fun kids.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 22

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:27:27 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fairerthanshe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

I'll say it again: there is no such thing as a no limits sub.

We have the limits of possibility-if nothing else.

Try ordering a sub to fly to the moon on a doughnut.

Greetings,

and then watch her cry with knowledge of her failure...her utter and complete worthlessness for being unable to satisfy this whim of her Master...oh the horror, oh the shame...

tongue in cheek ~ fairer

But she can make it up with a really good blow job-and squeezing my cock with her anus-just the way I like it.

I'm very forgiving-really

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to fairerthanshe)

Post #: 23

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:30:37 AM

fairerthanshe

Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Yes.

What people don't understand about a lack of limits comes from paranoia for the most part.

It's really just about trusting the judgement and ethics of a competent Top.

I hear what you're saying Leatherist, but how can a sub/slave/bottom be expected to trust someone they don't know? It's one thing to build up to a no limits relationship, quite another to meet someone and trust them by saying "okay, no limits at all, do what you like", i think trust can only come with time.

Phoenix

Greetings Phoenix,

The first time SJ and I met, we played within 30 minutes. But there were some definite parameters set for that session.

If you are looking to meet someone, I suggest a public party so if things get out of hand, you have people around who know what "red" means.

Its okay not to be a no limits sub, really, it doesn't take away from the depths of your submission. Don't let someone else define you until you absolutely know that if you won the lottery, you would still want to be with them...

well wishes ~ fairer

_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 24

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:32:32 AM

fairerthanshe

Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline

Greetings Leatherist,

You are a wonderful Master - I like your style!

well wishes ~ fairer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: fairerthanshe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

I'll say it again: there is no such thing as a no limits sub.

We have the limits of possibility-if nothing else.

Try ordering a sub to fly to the moon on a doughnut.

Greetings,

and then watch her cry with knowledge of her failure...her utter and complete worthlessness for being unable to satisfy this whim of her Master...oh the horror, oh the shame...

tongue in cheek ~ fairer

But she can make it up with a really good blow job-and squeezing my cock with her anus-just the way I like it.

I'm very forgiving-really

_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 25

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:42:32 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Personally, I don't care what the phrase "no limits" means to others. I have seen the meaning of the phrase so twisted around by some people that it essentially becomes meaningless. I see a big difference between saying "I am a no limits slave" and saying "I do not impose limits in my relationship and I entered a relationship with someone who does not want to intentionally harm me". Many equate those two statements to be the same.

Define for yourself what the word limit means to you. In our house we distinguish between what we don't want to do and what would harm us by using the words limit and boundary. A boundary is a limit, but crossing that boundary would harm either the relationship or the person. Many people use the same word for either something they do not want to do and something that would harm them without making the distinction of what the consequence of crossing that particular limit is.

When searching for a partner, make sure that you do not get into a relationship with someone that would harm you. I entered a relationship with someone who has as a part of their moral code "harm none". He will do what he wants when he wants and the only limit to that is that he will not harm us.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 26

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 8:53:41 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix
I hear what you're saying Leatherist, but how can a sub/slave/bottom be expected to trust someone they don't know? It's one thing to build up to a no limits relationship, quite another to meet someone and trust them by saying "okay, no limits at all, do what you like", i think trust can only come with time.

Phoenix

There is a simple solution to this... you do not become the sub or slave of someone that you do not know.

Before you become THEIR sub or slave, you are just two people getting to know each other.

Knight's Kyra

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 3/22/2008 8:54:03 AM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 27

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:00:45 AM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix
I hear what you're saying Leatherist, but how can a sub/slave/bottom be expected to trust someone they don't know? It's one thing to build up to a no limits relationship, quite another to meet someone and trust them by saying "okay, no limits at all, do what you like", i think trust can only come with time.

Phoenix

There is a simple solution to this... you do not become the sub or slave of someone that you do not know.

Before you become THEIR sub or slave, you are just two people getting to know each other.

Knight's Kyra

*grins* and THAT Kyra, is exactly how i'm proceeding...

Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 28

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:02:37 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

FR

I find it amusing that the same people (in general) who use the word "fetish" to mean something "kinky" that they like (instead of the real meaning, something required for sexual arousal/release) are the same people who will only use or recognize the literal meaning of "no limits" instead of the often-used meaning of "I do not impose limits in my relationship and I entered a relationship with someone who does not want to intentionally harm me" (thank you for the wording Kyra).

Cal

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 29

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:22:01 AM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Personally, I don't care what the phrase "no limits" means to others. I have seen the meaning of the phrase so twisted around by some people that it essentially becomes meaningless.

Good point. The "There is no such thing as a no-limits relationship" crowd regularly picks the most outlandish example to prove their point. They are often more interested in winning the debate than they are in having an intelligent exchange about the topic.

We have limits. We obey the law. Play will never involve anyone who cannot legally consent nor will it ever involve creatures who do not possess the concept of consent (the two main examples that the aforementioned crowd usually cites) even if I wanted to - blech.

Some are practical/common sense limits. I do not find visits from EMTs or visits to the ER very erotic. Not part of my game plan so I do whatever I can to avoid these situations. I promise not to maim or kill her. She is confident that she will leave with her limbs and digits intact so that I may play with her another day.

For us it's not so much about any "no limits" proclamation as it is about our basic concept of domination and submission. If a submissive is picking and choosing what they will and won't do in line item veto fashion... that's not what submission is about to us. Either you submit or you don't. Simple as that. That's the way we see it and that's the way we approach it. She has said on several occasions that this relationship we have is more fulfilling for her simply because of the absence of limits and/or safewords that were present in prior encounters.

In regard to the OP I have never found a way to divest the physical from the psychological in bdsm and I am not sure I really want to.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 30

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:36:20 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

The "There is no such thing as a no-limits relationship" crowd regularly picks the most outlandish example to prove their point. They are often more interested in winning the debate than they are in having an intelligent exchange about the topic.

We have limits.

Okay, does this not put to rest the debate, though?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Evility)

Post #: 31

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:38:47 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Okay, does this not put to rest the debate, though?

Apparently it does!!

But what am I gonna do with my chainsaw fetish??

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 32

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:39:40 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Okay, does this not put to rest the debate, though?

Apparently it does!!

But what am I gonna do with my chainsaw fetish??

Hush, you!!!!

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 33

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:50:24 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

to me an "no limits" relationship would be: Dom says "I am going to (fill in anything here)" sub replys "OK"

to me the (fill in anything here) can be replaced with anything, including the words "kill you"

That's how I feel about the phrase which is why I won't apply it to myself. Nor does it matter to me if the dominant in questions assures me that he would never order to me do such a thing, I wouldn't do it if requested. Therefore I have limits. To me, being really no limits means that you would kill your best friend for no reason if ordered. Even though I know Valyraen would never order such a thing, I still know that I wouldn't do it.

It's not a matter of trusting them, it's not a matter of their ethics or morals, it's a matter of mine.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Phin)

Post #: 34

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:54:15 AM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Okay, does this not put to rest the debate, though?

Thank you for proving my point.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 35

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 9:55:51 AM

MD1Master

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline

No limits is a beautiful coda to the Dom/sub relationship. By the time this point is reached, though there are "no limits" I would state that there are "no limits" within the agreed upon limits. The trust has been built and the submissive understands that at the end, whenever that will be, she will be receive her reward. This reward can take many forms and should address and target exact what the submissive needs and desires.

There are always limits or at least bounds. The Dom always should and must care for the submissive that has provided him with the ultimate gift, unconditional and absolute trust.

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 36

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:00:36 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I find it amusing that the same people (in general) who use the word "fetish" to mean something "kinky" that they like (instead of the real meaning, something required for sexual arousal/release) are the same people who will only use or recognize the literal meaning of "no limits" instead of the often-used meaning of "I do not impose limits in my relationship and I entered a relationship with someone who does not want to intentionally harm me" (thank you for the wording Kyra).

My pleasure. I do prefer the literal meaning of the phrase "I have no limits", and I prefer to use the word fetish in the way it is defined in the dictionary. I don't have any fetishes and I have quite a few limits/boundaries. Some of them he makes me do anyway and some he avoids because he doesn't want to harm me or our relationship.

In regards to the topic in general, I do think that there are people in the world who are willing to do things someone else tells them to do regardless of the consequences to others and themselves. I think there are people willing to do some pretty horrific things if commanded to do it, including killing themselves and others. The suicide bombers that we see in the news give evidence to this. I think there could be people involved in M/s relationships where the slave would willingly do something horrific because master told them to. However, I don't consider these people to be all that healthy or someone I wish to be a part of our life.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 37

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:09:05 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

Well, I never stated limits to play when we began. He didn't talk about what he was going to do either. He knew. He didn't feel the necessity to tell me. I didn't feel the necessity to ask. I simply walked in deciding that I wanted to play with him and that whatever happened was as much my responsibility as it was his. I relied on him to set the pace. I relied on him to set the limits. He relied on me to be honest in what I was feeling. We explored what OUR limits were.

I looked at the risks I'd be undertaking and based on what I knew about him and about me at that point, I made the decision to play. I left what he was going to do to him. He stayed aware of me even as he was learning my body language, so yes, no safe words either. I can't honestly say I knew enough about him to say unequivocally that I trusted him. I just knew that at that moment in time, I wanted him and that there was something there that I couldn't deny or put off. Dinner was hell to get through. It didn't go fast enough. But looking back, it was definitely a crap shoot.

I won the jackpot.

I've never been sorry.

However, with regards to our relationship, we did do a LOT of talking about that - what worked for us, what didn't, what I could manage and what I couldn't manage...There was much more talk about the relationship than there EVER was about the play. And I do have limits there that he honors. He has limits that I honor. It works well.

oh wait. I did say that condoms were a must. He said they were a must for him too.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 3/22/2008 10:15:12 AM >

(in reply to MD1Master)

Post #: 38

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:14:28 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Okay, does this not put to rest the debate, though?

Thank you for proving my point.

Well, you proved mine just as much, got to love those double-edged blades.

I have no problem with debate and conversation, and at the end of the day, I hope that folks on both sides of the fence have someone in their life they click with, and find joy with, no matter what they call the dynamic they share, and no matter if they agree with me, or not.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Evility)

Post #: 39

RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:14:55 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

The interesting thing for me is that in my vanilla relationship with my partner, I consider myself to have no limits either. We both have things we won't do, but who cares? We understand that about eachother and it doesn't force us into any place of not being true to ourselves. The idea of telling him to do something that goes against who he is is completely abhorrent to me- so maybe that's my limit- not ordering things which go against who he is/who we are/the values of our relationship.

Does that mean we have limits?

I think people who worry about whether they have limits or not aren't busy enough just enjoying what they have ;)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 40

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