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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:18:04 AM   
julietsierra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think people who worry about whether they have limits or not aren't busy enough just enjoying what they have ;)


AMEN... I think that people who worry about the mental state of others because of limits that those people either have or don't have when it will never impact them need a hobby.

juliet

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:21:28 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think people who worry about whether they have limits or not aren't busy enough just enjoying what they have ;)


AMEN... I think that people who worry about the mental state of others because of limits that those people either have or don't have when it will never impact them need a hobby.

juliet


AMEN to both of you!!

I was just sharing some email back & forth with someone and we were talking about how what's really important is whether or not those in a relationship are happy.  The need to prove or disprove is a waste of energy.  I yam what I yam and however anyone other than my Master and I want to define that - have at it and enjoy yourselves! 

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:21:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fairerthanshe
The first time SJ and I met, we played within 30 minutes.  But there were some definite parameters set for that session. 

LOL as someone who was there for this by odd timing, I can say that I was stunned when Fairer informed me later that they had never played before and only just met.  The way they played, talked and how it FELT watching was completely as if they had been together for years.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:22:04 AM   
Level


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Ummmm, yams.........

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:22:28 AM   
daddyncherry


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i love the way kOM put it and agree with it in that context.....

i impose no limits on him....believing that he has our/my best interest in mind.....Would i do something totally insane because he asked me to? No! That would nullify everything i know about him and cancel everything...but there are things that i totally don't like to do, that i do simply because he tells me to and i know it would please him.....one of those things was a hard limit when i came into the relationship, now it is a matter of course.....i don't impose limits, or say no to things that please him, knowing full well the type of man he is and what he may or may not ask of me......If he chose to really harm me, then i would have to end the relationship, but at this point, knowing that he won't harm me too badly, or permanently, then i just go with his personal limits.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:22:40 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Bettah with buttah....

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Good is the enemy of great.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:32:43 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Personally, I don't care what the phrase "no limits" means to others.  I have seen the meaning of the phrase so twisted around by some people that it essentially becomes meaningless.


Good point. The "There is no such thing as a no-limits relationship" crowd regularly picks the most outlandish example to prove their point. They are often more interested in winning the debate than they are in having an intelligent exchange about the topic.

We have limits. We obey the law. Play will never involve anyone who cannot legally consent nor will it ever involve creatures who do not possess the concept of consent (the two main examples that the aforementioned crowd usually cites) even if I wanted to - blech.

Some are practical/common sense limits. I do not find visits from EMTs or visits to the ER very erotic. Not part of my game plan so I do whatever I can to avoid these situations.
I promise not to maim or kill her. She is confident that she will leave with her limbs and digits intact so that I may play with her another day.

For us it's not so much about any "no limits" proclamation as it is about our basic concept of domination and submission. If a submissive is picking and choosing what they will and won't do in line item veto fashion... that's not what submission is about to us. Either you submit or you don't. Simple as that. That's the way we see it and that's the way we approach it. She has said on several occasions that this relationship we have is more fulfilling for her simply because of the absence of limits and/or safewords that were present in prior encounters.

In regard to the OP I have never found a way to divest the physical from the psychological in bdsm and I am not sure I really want to.



i LOVE this post, Evil. When i  use extreme examples in the "There's no such thing as a totally no limits relationship" arguement, it's to make those who claim to have literally no limits think about what they're saying not to win the arguement. Although, i would say that death is definitely a hard limit *grins*.
 
The sweet, kind Daddy Dom types hold no interest for me. I'm not looking to be coddled and catered to. I just want to know that i'll survive the scene relatively intact and ready to come back for more.
 
Nor does setting the limits interest me, that's why it's so important to know who you get into a relationship with beforehand. There is no need to set limits because what will/won't harm me would be known before play starts so the play would "flow" seamlessly.
 
I've read your profile and you guys sound very much like my friend and her dom. There are no limits set but she knows that he will never harm her physically or psychologically.
 
Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to Evility)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:33:34 AM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
LOL as someone who was there for this by odd timing, I can say that I was stunned when Fairer informed me later that they had never played before and only just met.  The way they played, talked and how it FELT watching was completely as if they had been together for years

What a compliment.  I would like to think if anyone else had been present for my first experience with Master, they would feel the same way about what they saw there.  It was amazing the connection that was made instantly through that experience.  What a nice thing to say, LA................luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:37:51 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:


ORIGINAL: Evility
For us it's not so much about any "no limits" proclamation as it is about our basic concept of domination and submission. If a submissive is picking and choosing what they will and won't do in line item veto fashion... that's not what submission is about to us. Either you submit or you don't. Simple as that. That's the way we see it and that's the way we approach it. She has said on several occasions that this relationship we have is more fulfilling for her simply because of the absence of limits and/or safewords that were present in prior encounters.

So to me that makes it obvious that it's not us "extreme example" people who make this difficult, but it's all the ones who say "Submit or not, don't pick and choose."

Well if you can't pick and choose- then being ordered to fuck a stranger without a condom is completely legitimate, and there are plenty of doms who will order such a thing. 

Don't get on us "extreme example" people and then suggest that "anything goes."  Be consistent.  I have no problem with someone saying "I don't put limits on the relationship, the master sets them for us, thus I have no limits within this relationship towards him."

But don't go trying to equate that with "no limits" or "subs just submit" and then get pissy when logical ideas are brought up that you won't do.  If a sub can't pick or choose- then she wouldn't be allowed to choose her dom to begin with.  By saying NO to some doms and YES to other doms, she IS picking what will and won't work for her.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:38:27 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Okay, does this not put to rest the debate, though?


Thank you for proving my point.


 Well, you proved mine just as much, got to love those double-edged blades.
 
I have no problem with debate and conversation, and at the end of the day, I hope that folks on both sides of the fence have someone in their life they click with, and find joy with, no matter what they call the dynamic they share, and no matter if they agree with me, or not.

Nope, nope, nope, noone at all...if things don't change soon i may have to do a very unsubbie thing and use a net to bag me one..
 
Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:38:56 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
What a compliment.  I would like to think if anyone else had been present for my first experience with Master, they would feel the same way about what they saw there.  It was amazing the connection that was made instantly through that experience.  What a nice thing to say, LA................luci

Thanks Luci, I appreciate it! 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:42:16 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

Nope, nope, nope, noone at all...if things don't change soon i may have to do a very unsubbie thing and use a net to bag me one..
 
Phoenix


They had them on half-price at Home Depot........

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 10:49:34 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


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Joined: 2/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

Nope, nope, nope, noone at all...if things don't change soon i may have to do a very unsubbie thing and use a net to bag me one..
 
Phoenix


They had them on half-price at Home Depot........

DAMN i always miss the good sales! Anyone got one they're not using?

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 11:11:04 AM   
DesFIP


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It depends. No limits should mean that you've talked with him thoroughly enough to know what he's into and whether or not you hold the same viewpoints. If so you're compatible, if not you aren't.

Would he stop if it were doing you physical or psychological harm? You better know him well enough beforehand to know if he likes a new toy each time or if he prefers not to play with his toys so he can play with them again.

However, unless he's a serial killer, saying "I withdraw consent, let me go now or I will call the cops" does serve as a safeword. You don't get a second chance to play with the same guy though after doing this.

I pretty much don't have a list of limits. He knows what I can handle and what I can't. I know that as he isn't a sadist, his goal during play is not to make me afraid or sobbing in agony, it's to make me wet. Therefore I can give him needed feedback as to whether or not what he's doing will succeed in his achieving his goal. And he isn't interested in doing things to me today that will make me unwilling to play with him tomorrow. YMMV

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to colouredin)
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RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 11:23:59 AM   
fairerthanshe


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Greeti
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
What a compliment.  I would like to think if anyone else had been present for my first experience with Master, they would feel the same way about what they saw there.  It was amazing the connection that was made instantly through that experience.  What a nice thing to say, LA................luci

Thanks Luci, I appreciate it! 


Greetings LA,

Thank you very much for the description you gave - it means a lot to me that others were able to see what I felt in that moment.  I am blushing - reading your words truly made me feel special. 

hugs and well wishes ~ fairer


_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 11:54:49 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It depends. No limits should mean that you've talked with him thoroughly enough to know what he's into and whether or not you hold the same viewpoints. If so you're compatible, if not you aren't.

Would he stop if it were doing you physical or psychological harm? You better know him well enough beforehand to know if he likes a new toy each time or if he prefers not to play with his toys so he can play with them again.

However, unless he's a serial killer, saying "I withdraw consent, let me go now or I will call the cops" does serve as a safeword. You don't get a second chance to play with the same guy though after doing this.

I pretty much don't have a list of limits. He knows what I can handle and what I can't. I know that as he isn't a sadist, his goal during play is not to make me afraid or sobbing in agony, it's to make me wet. Therefore I can give him needed feedback as to whether or not what he's doing will succeed in his achieving his goal. And he isn't interested in doing things to me today that will make me unwilling to play with him tomorrow. YMMV


I'm confident saying that if he IS a serial killer, having my limits respected would be the least of my problems... 
 
Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 1:05:15 PM   
lally3


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heh,

this puts me in mind of a sadist on IC - the list of things he was interested in would have shocked a medieval torture chamber.  he clearly had no limits himself and judging from his assertion that all subs were wimps he hadnt yet found a sub foolhardy enough to go there.

it is possible to enter a relationship with a dominant with no limits but who listens.  just means that something gets put on the back burner until the trust has been built.  but surely before you ever get to discuss limits you have already established what the dominant has a particular interest in.  compatibility is the leveller surely.

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 1:05:40 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
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Okay, here we go.

I don't have any limits.

(Opps.. stop reading.. nut job alert! Put her in a straight jacket and call the guys in white coats!) It's all good, I like straight jackets. I'll smile. I'll drool. I'll be happy.

I acknowledge there are things which are not possible. I don't call them limits though. I call them what they are which is.. um, impossible. ::laughs:: I don't believe anyone else has limits either even if they may think they do. Here's why ...

There may be times in life when a choice must be made between an evil and a greater evil. No one knows if some future event may cause them to discard all the preconceived notions they carry and step over a boundary they never thought they would because it is the lesser of two evils. I'm not a fortune teller. I don't know what the future may hold, but I am perfectly aware that any one 'thing' I may say is a hard and steadfast limit may become, at some point, through some unforeseen circumstance, my only viable option. I feel it is a more honest approach to acknowledge such possibilities than to say that possibilities don't exist.

The most extreme example is usually death. Death is a hard limit. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad new and tell all the folks who hold fast to that one but, you're going to die. Period. Your 'saying' it's a hard limit isn't going to prevent the inevitable. The other extreme example is the chainsaw cutting off a limb. I can think of several things worse than having a limb cut off by a chainsaw. Bear chewing on my leg .. it's gonna kill me. Cut the damn leg off and hopefully save my life and so on and so forth.

My preference would be for folks to say that within a given BDSM relationship, there are the limits they would impose. Don't cut off my leg for your pleasure. Don't kill me on your whim. Don't break my bones. Don't break my spirit. Have a 'reason' for your extreme action which may cause me harm other than it gets your rocks off. To me, perfectly acceptable and, actually, a very wise way to go about the business of life in an intimate personal relationship.

::wonders how many are rolling their eyes at this obviously backwards way of looking at the world::  Here's the thing. When discussing limits vs no limits the extremes are almost always taken outside of a BDSM context and that's the very place where the argument falls apart! Outside, in the big bad world of reality, any damn thing is possible! BDSM is a place where many come to fill their fantasy's. Where they can drop the extremes in the real world and indulge in the activities which fulfill them. BDSM is where it's actually safe to say no because, out there, you don't always get that option. Within the narrow confines of a BDSM relationship, everyone and I do mean everyone has the right to determine what they will and will not do.

Everyone has the right to impose limits and to discard limits .. and the means of expressing that right is, generally, done through the process of finding someone with whom you are compatibile. If and when that happens, the limits you may or may not have within that intimate personal relationship are your business and the business of your partner/s and if someone else wants to get you into a straight jacket because you're a kook, you really should allow it because straight jackets are fun and expensive and you'll get a free one.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 1:13:48 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Oh, and I have a lot of limits-they have to do with safety. Like std's-which is why I hard limit anything that will put getting one as a risk factor. The others have to do with emotional states-they do matter.


Thank You!
When InkedMaster and i began discovering each other we found we had the same concept of "limits" or actually the better term of 'boundaries'.  For me, a limit or boundary is the likely consequence of an act, not the act itself.  For example, being naked is good!  Being naked at Disney World is bad!  If an activity is not likely to kill me or someone else, is not likely to result in a prison term, is not likely to send me or anyone else to the psych ward, etc. then i'm all for trying it. 

In the defense of the 'no limits' Dominants, it's gotten pretty common for some submissives to have a long and detailed list of activities they have never tried but declare to be hard limits so that basically they are saying they will submit but only if they remain in total control at all times.  i'm sure that wears a little thin for those seeking.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: No Limits - 3/22/2008 3:40:41 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
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From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
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There are a multitude of ways it can work and is decided upon by the individuals involved.


In one of my relationships, I am not allowed to say no or refuse him anything during a scene whatever he says goes, there is no prediscussion  he decides how he wants to play the scene out and I am expected to obey 100% without questioning him on what ever he decides  , so during the actual scening I have no say in how it will play out but that does not mean he has no respect for my booundaries,. experience level or  feelings


but he does respect that I have certain hard limits...  which I trust in him that  he  would not violate during a scene,   I also still have the use of a safe word should I find I need it but chances are I will never have to use it since he is very attentive to my reactions,  once the scene is over I can freely discuss

I do have some soft limits, those he will decide when he feels  I am ready, when that time comes he dicuss with me prior to a scene to see if I have any concerns or questions so that I am somewhat prepared ahead of time, he would not totally spring on me unexpectantly,  I just will not know exactly when it will be incorporated or if  , the finally decision  will be totally up to him.

This is not a relationship  I just  jumped into  there  was several months of talking before the first scene, I know his hard limits are similiar to my own,  I know he respects me very much and cares about my well being, he knows my experience level, he knows something about my past relationships, and he is hoping that at some point in the future that I will agree to become a permanent part of his life so doing anything to harm me physically or emotionally would not be in his best interest as a result I know that having no right to say no in a scene with him and allowing him to totally decide on how the scene will play out will not put me at risk.  

So in a way I do have limits but he is the one who controls them not me and I trust him enough to decide when and if they should be breached, I would never agree to something like this with someone I do not not know well enough.


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

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