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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 12:29:16 PM   
kaleique


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


Perhaps relationships are simply a blend of selfish and selfless motivations and acts.  Perhaps it is not one or the other.  I put my Master's desires before my own.  It feels good to see him content.  The two go hand in hand - his contentment feeds my own.

It's been an interesting thread.




I think you hit the nail on the head here....

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 12:33:36 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		Yay! 

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 4:42:28 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		First, I have not read the majority of the replies to this thread and second I want to start off with how I define selfish and selfless because I know that there are people who define them differently.

The definitions that I use come from dictionaries and to summarize:

Selfless - having little or no concern for self
Selfish - concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself; concern for one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others

From that perspective, I am rarely selfish or selfless.  Once I made the choice to submit to him my major focus or concern became doing his will, focused on him and not self.  However, it is rare that my submission is selfless, because I am required to have concern for myself by him (I suppose someone could wind that around to being selfless, since by being concerned for myself I am actually submittting, but I do not see it as selfless).

I think the English language is missing a word that would describe the behavior in between selfish and selfless.  In general, I would say that I am neither selfish or selfless. 

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to LadyHathor)
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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 5:04:56 PM   
SayaNereida


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quote:

is your submission--

selfless or selfish? there are schools of thought on both sides it seems---

why--why not?


*I have not read the whole thread

I believe all that we do is selfish (although I would not use that term,perhaps self serving), perhaps to a greater or lesser degree but I can honestly think of nothing, that we do that we do not get something out of it.  I do not believe there IS a completely selfless deed.     Saya





< Message edited by SayaNereida -- 3/25/2008 5:06:25 PM >

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 6:27:35 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

~fr~

I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying their participation, in their relationships, is selfish.

I mean, you are thinking of your SO, when you do that stuff; aren’t you?

confused


Sure I am. But why I am marrying this particular man instead of any of the other men I've dated and broken up with? Because his happiness makes me happy in a way that theirs didn't. I made them happy, I made them smile, I pleased them sexually, emotionally, etc. I wanted for myself what I have now and didn't have then - a selfish desire but a reasonable one. Perhaps others wouldn't define it as selfish but it certainly wasn't selfless.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 7:40:44 PM   
Hisgirlonly


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Status: offline 		whenever i start in a session it is totally selfish cause i'm needy and greedy and want satisfaction but as the session goes on i'm so into pleasing that it becomes selfless and i want to make Him happy.

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 7:46:41 PM   
Poetryinpain


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Status: offline 		~fr~
We seem to be searching for a word to indicate that in-between mid-distance quality to describe what a sub does that is neither selfish nor selfless (in their strict definitions). I did some thesaurus work, and - DUH - here's what I found.

unselfish

To me that accurately describes my attitude when "doing for" another without the promise that I will get something good out of it for myself.

Thoughts?

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 7:52:27 PM   
charmdpetKeira


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I wanted for myself what I have now and didn't have then - a selfish desire but a reasonable one. Perhaps others wouldn't define it as selfish but it certainly wasn't selfless.



Is it selfish to eat?
 
It is the energy that keeps me comming back, it is what keeps me from being one of the living dead.
 
And no, I wouldn’t call it selfless, I say balanced.
 
k

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Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 7:54:59 PM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		<FR>
I'm thinking it would be a combination of both.  If one leads a completely self-less existence, how long would it take to crumble if she gets absolutely nothing back? 

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There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/25/2008 8:28:06 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I wanted for myself what I have now and didn't have then - a selfish desire but a reasonable one. Perhaps others wouldn't define it as selfish but it certainly wasn't selfless.



Is it selfish to eat?
 
It is the energy that keeps me comming back, it is what keeps me from being one of the living dead.
 
And no, I wouldn’t call it selfless, I say balanced.
 
k


I must eat to live. I do not need to be owned, please anyone or even have basic human contact in order to live and not die. Needing those things in order to be happy and having a life worth living is much different than needing them in order to live.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/26/2008 6:33:01 AM   
charmdpetKeira


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


I must eat to live. I do not need to be owned, please anyone or even have basic human contact in order to live and not die. Needing those things in order to be happy and having a life worth living is much different than needing them in order to live.


I understand what you're saying; for me, I consider them  needed to be complete.
 
Without them, I would exist, but existing without purpose; feels like stagnant swamp water to me.
 
Now that I've had a taste of D/s energy, I realize what was missing before; and withdrawral is a bitch.
 
I have enjoyed comparing relationships with you; thank you.
 
Just one more question; if you don't mind. How would you say your being selfish, relates to the message in your sig. line?
 
My best,
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/26/2008 1:39:57 PM   
solvr70


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

ok you knew someone had to----is your submission--
 
selfless or selfish? there are schools of thought on both sides it seems---
 
why--why not?
 
 


i certainly don't think it's selfish. but it might not qualify as selfless either. i'm not really an extreemist.

i've never been able to assign a name to it. the goal is to be totally open and honest in the quest to find One with overlapping interests such that W/we bring each O/other to new levels of pleasure and excitement not thought possible before. i would call that a win-win, but suppose it does not fall into either catagory mentioned.


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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/26/2008 2:29:14 PM   
Poetryinpain


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Joined: 3/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: solvr70
i certainly don't think it's selfish. but it might not qualify as selfless either. i'm not really an extreemist.

i've never been able to assign a name to it. the goal is to be totally open and honest in the quest to find One with overlapping interests such that W/we bring each O/other to new levels of pleasure and excitement not thought possible before. i would call that a win-win, but suppose it does not fall into either catagory mentioned.


Everything one does is for our mutual benefit.

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There is none so blind as he who will not see.

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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/26/2008 4:44:28 PM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		Selfish.  Her joy is delicious.

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Happy "Swamp Thing"

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/26/2008 9:02:45 PM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Just one more question; if you don't mind. How would you say your being selfish, relates to the message in your sig. line?
 


That I can't have this without him, he can't have this without me. We're giving to each other but that doesn't mean either of us would be here if we weren't getting something out of it. Valyraen feels the same way I do - if we weren't getting something out of being with each other that we couldn't get elsewhere, we wouldn't be with each other.

Selfish, but reasonably so and for mutual benefit.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/26/2008 10:01:02 PM   
girlygurl


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Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

ok you knew someone had to----is your submission--
 
selfless or selfish? there are schools of thought on both sides it seems---
 
why--why not?
 


Is my submission selfish?  No, I don't believe so at that this point in our relationship.  At first it might have been, but now it's like breathing... it just happens.  I'll admit that when I see Him it's a selfish act... or I feel it is at times... but that's just cause I get such satisfaction out of being with Him.  The bottom line for me is that when I'm with Him it's all about bringing Him joy.... and it just so happens that I recieve joy at the same time.

girly (happily His)

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i see You

happily forever one

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/27/2008 8:13:49 AM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		Aquatic,

This has been a very interesting, and insightful, exchange for me.

I can completely relate to the dynamic you describe, even though I place the point of balance, in a different place.

I also believe I understand where you’re coming from, when you say it’s selfish, for you.

Thank you.

My best,

k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 3/27/2008 8:14:13 AM >

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/27/2008 12:42:42 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		FastReply

I do not believe there is any such this as a fully altruistic act... sorry chaps ...they just dont exist ... there is some benefit to me in everything I do even if it is far off and hardly worth noting.  I would be happy to debate the ethical basis of this view any time ... I am making the most of my own ethicaland moral opinions while I still have them lol

That said, I *adore* doing things for other people...love it ...makes them feel nice, makes me feel great about myself.. everyone is happy. I am an intensely seflish person; I want my life happy, I want a good time, and I want to like myself.

Sometimes I do things, and will be made to do things that really do not make me happy or pleased with myself in the short term. In the long term however those things will benefit me, perhaps very indirectly, but they will. If my submission ever stops benefiting me ... I am out .. love, devotion, service and submission are wonderful, but not worth the cost of contentment and happiness

me = selfish

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: Selfless or Selfish - 3/28/2008 1:21:53 AM   
StormsSlave


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Joined: 2/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Thanks to those who replied to the sub-question I asked on this thread.  It's something I have found myself not understanding yet wanting to.

I looked up selfless, because I have OCD and when I'm on a subject I have to pick at it until my brain is satisfied.

Oxford:  concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one’s own.

Cambridge:  Someone who is selfless only thinks of other people's advantage:

American Heritage: Having, exhibiting, or motivated by no concern for oneself; unselfish:

Webster:  Having no regard to self; unselfish.

Encarta:  putting other people's needs, interests, or wishes before your own


Perhaps relationships are simply a blend of selfish and selfless motivations and acts.  Perhaps it is not one or the other.  I put my Master's desires before my own.  It feels good to see him content.  The two go hand in hand - his contentment feeds my own.

It's been an interesting thread.




ownedgirlie, you so often say the very things I am thinking. 

My relationship with My Lord is both.  The two are so closely intertwined I can't seperate them anymore.  I seek his happiness and I seek my own, and we believe they are both acheivable with one another. 

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--nobody's resident anything.

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Profile   Post #: 59
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