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SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 12:08:54 AM   
GiantSteps


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline 		It's not surprising that recurrent themes from Alt.Bondage are showing up here, especially concerning  the horror stories in posts and profiles concerning submissive's bad fortunes and horor stories. The internet remains a world of shadows, and very, Very rarely have I ever met anyone who was exactly as their I-facade appeared. You get to expect it... in time.

What I do find surprising is that, 20 years on and much better organized and teched, no better support and information venue has been concieved to safety net newbie subs. Plenty of you battle-scarred vets are in here, and I'm betting every single one of you have your early experience with the negative aspects of online D/s and first time RLs.

The damage that stuff causes always got up my nose, and apparently still does. So let me put this question to you folks: shouldn't there be a FAQ/Newbie training and advisory board in here where we keep the fry until they're too big to be eaten by the predators? With this multi-board format, I would think it would be easy to set up a little red schoolhouse that might keep some folks from getting burned too badly, adjusting expectations and sending up some red flags to keep an eye out for.

MontrealPhoenix's post is a perfect example of the problem, although we wouldn't have to go far down the board to find others. What do you mean you played without any personal information? What do you mean you don't have a real name or phone number? It would be extremely double-plus good if we could force this kind of stuff into newbies heads before we sagely and sadly shake our heads afterwards. Whatcha think?
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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 12:20:24 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		umm i didn't go through any boot camp and i have never had a bad experience with a first time meet from online D/s...actually the only negative experiences i have had from online at all have been non-D/s related meets where the guys have not shown up....if that counts?  see, because i did all those things you mentioned - all on my own, i required a real full name, phone number,  picture, other information as appropriate...and i found out i needed this from the billion and a half "meeting someone from the internet? DO THIS!!" articles already out there...oh and as for the D/s half...i combined the afore mentioned articles with the billion and a half "Negotiating a scene/relationship" articles already out there...

i hate to be darwinistic, but if someone can't figure out how to do things from what is out there and survive - i am not too sure you should be playing with the adults...the resources are already there, you just have to use them...

hey, LA, was that too harsh?
chelle


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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 12:47:13 AM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		As I see it .. we can preach about safety all we want to ... but too many newbies and those that should know better .. think that they know better or that " this person is different" and refuse to follow common sense steps to protect themselves ...

It brings to mind  the old saying  that is paraphrased ..."You can lead a sub to common sense ... but you cant make them use it"  


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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 1:14:38 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

As I see it .. we can preach about safety all we want to ... but too many newbies and those that should know better .. think that they know better or that " this person is different" and refuse to follow common sense steps to protect themselves ...

It brings to mind  the old saying  that is paraphrased ..."You can lead a sub to common sense ... but you cant make them use it"  



This is so true, and start looking at the ages of some of these subs that find themselves getting  into trouble,   most are not teenie boppers that are wet behind the ears and have little to no dating experience, many of these are woman in their 40's and 50's who at age have read over and over in the newspapers and have watched the news footages of women that get themselves in trouble or killed or simply disappear on dates, they are not isolated and sheltered from learning the dangers that exist in this world and yet they throw all common sense out the window and then act like 15 year olds  wanting revenge for being made to look like fools that they behaved like afterward and want sympathy and a pat on the head and want everyone to join dish them   in rubbing the doms nose thru the dirt .    And the worse part is a month or two later most will be posting again about how some other nasty dom took advantage of them.  And 9 times out of 10  the dom is not really that bad a guy,   the sub just thinks he is because they  do not understand what they are agreeing to


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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 1:17:02 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Nothing like this will really ever work unless the "board" or whatever has real legal power. That will never happen. "There is no 'Pope of Rope'," as Jack Rinella has said.

Master Fire


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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 1:18:05 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		I'm noticing a trend here.  If 2 posts can be called a trend.  Round here we call it common sense.  IT's called common cuz everyone has it.  Yanno the stuff you learned as a kid.  Look both ways before crossing the street.  Now if for some reason they don't have it perhaps they should sit behind their computer, cuz it's scary out in the real world.

I'm guessing i've met over 100 ppl from the net and not had one scary moment.  The reality is sure bad stuff happens at times to the most cautious chalk it up to I'm not doing that again.

BadOne 

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 1:27:29 AM   
GiantSteps


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Well, MissH,  I can appreciate the view that there are a bunch of ninnys running around on either side of capitalization; I was talking to one puppy just yesterday who just ran off half-cocked anyway and made a fool of himself. So it was wasted breath.

On the other hand, as a site that prides itself as "The Largest BDSM Community on the Planet", it simply seems right to make common sense available to those who have none - kind of a pro bono service for those with brain enough to use it. To my mind, if we take the Darwinist attittude of they shoulda known better, so they deserved it, we're not really taking point for our community.

chellekity (commendibly) did the sensible thing - she sought out that information on her own.

But she didn't find it here, at "The Largest BDSM Community on the Planet." Where, presumably. we have a wealth of information and practical experience to bring to bear.Generally, I dom't see this place as a meat market, but granted I'm an extreme short-timer and not overly interested in that aspect anyway. But if I'm right, and this is a discussion/information and opinion sharing portal, what more valuable service could we offer than a few well spoken warnings to those who have ears to hear? Sure, there'll still be dopes that won't listen. But we might be able to head off a few of the ones whose hamsters are still in their wheels.

< Message edited by GiantSteps -- 3/25/2008 1:31:28 AM >

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 1:36:07 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		There already IS a resource for newbies, it's called the Collarchat Message board.  This forum IS a resource for newbies.  If a subject is not currently being discussed, it has been discussed and can be found by using the search feature.  i've only been coming here for about 2 years and all the subjects necessary for the "boot camp" are already here.  The newbies just have to take the time and energy to educate themselves.  And if the newbie and the novice aren't sure where to look, all they need to do is ask.  Questions like "are there any books on the subject?"  "What should i know before....?" are all answered with a wealth of personal experience and additional resources.  This entire message board is a little red schoolhouse for anyone who wishes to avail themselves of the knowledge contained herein.

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 1:46:35 AM   
GiantSteps


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, eyesopened, we're running on the New Internet - back in the old days, a FAQ would cut it; nowadays, most companies of a decent size are opting for instant chat help because they know from experience that nobody bothers to dig around for facts anymore.If I was speaking corporately, sure - some old archived stuff somewhere on the server would legally cover it. But are we only interested in doing the least we can do? There's no limit of opinions out here -would a new board specifically branded for the advisement and assistance of newbies be so unmanned by the experienced?

++Addendum++

The question not asked and just noticed... "Or unmanned by the newbies?" I just noticed that I haven't seen anybody come racing in from the hinterlands suggesting that it would be just what they're looking for... Hmm. Could well be I'm tilting at windmills again, folks. Consider me reconsidering the wisdom of the idea.


< Message edited by GiantSteps -- 3/25/2008 1:53:31 AM >

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 2:05:04 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I understand what you are saying, GiantSteps, but, yanno, even though my mom told me that damn stove was hot, I still had to go touch it and see for myself. I don't think it's an inherently bad idea but at the same time, we're talking about fully formed adults who come on to the website and who, by all accounts, should have at least a bit of life experience under their belt. Putting the information out there is no guarentee of any sort of success, but I think it's better than not putting the information out there.

I wouldn't reconsider whether or not the idea is wise ... it is. Whether or not it would be effective is another story.

To do my bit: Newbies, don't let your nether regions over-ride what lies above your shoulders. If you decide not to heed my advice, drop me an email and I'll give you my address.

I mean, fresh meat is still fresh meat.

Celeste



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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 2:05:54 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		This topic has been discussed before.  I'm getting the impression from you that somehow the experienced ones have a duty to educate the masses about commen sense.  Like we have to protect them from themselves cuz their to lazy to do it.  This is not romper room.  We are adults in the most liberal sense of the word.  It's their choice if they choose to act like one.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 3/25/2008 2:06:39 AM >

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 2:15:09 AM   
GiantSteps


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Old dog, same tricks, SailingBum - I was a damned mother hen back at my old digs as well. And you're right about another thing - I've got an overly-developed sense of responsibility. I don't consider it a liability, however it does seem to have the same effectiveness in the long-term as an appendix.

Frankly, I suspect I've got some weird masochistic bent somewhere around my cerebral cortex...

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 2:26:15 AM   
Gemini1766


Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Giantsteps, I'd say it seems that you simply care about the health (physical and mental) of others here. Nothing wrong with that. Just gotta keep in mind that we cannot safe someone who isn't willing to be saved. Just look at some of the discussions. You give someone the most simple advice "run for the hills" because of their self described situation and yet they keep coming back and acting like they expect to eventually get a different answer instead of saying, "you're right, I'm out of this situation, I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks!"

I think it's a good thing to want to help and to protect. But you can't make them read and heed.

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 4:29:33 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		No bad experiences, met him off the net, no boot camp, safety net what have you. Just the fact that I know relationship skills are not separate, d/s or vanilla, the skills are the same. No difference between a newbie ignoring red flags at match.com, or a big office party, or a bar or doing it here. If you don't use any common sense you will get hurt and you deserve it. Speed in snow, you will have an accident. Ignore red flags or your gut screaming danger will robinson and you won't have a good time.

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 4:42:37 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		It's all well and sweet that you care about the well being of newbies, but it's when people don't take responsibility for their own choices and actions that problems occur.  If someone always has someone "protecting" them then how do they ever learn to make good, safe choices and how do they learn to trust their own instincts and use their own common sense?  I'm amazed that some adults are able to function in society just based on the stupidity of some of their questions (yes, there are stupid questions).  Some just make me role my eyes and make me wonder how they managed to put their socks on without the help of another that morning.  It's not my responsibility to make sure that another adult doesn't make a stupid mistake and it's not my responsibility to pretend that they get a free pass on stupidity because they're "new to the lifestlye". 

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 5:04:54 AM   
ThunderRoad


Posts: 231
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		Go to Kinky Kollege in the fall.  :)

www.kinkykollege.com

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 5:20:42 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		you cannot "mother hen" newbies all of the time or how else will they learn from a bad BDSM experience?  no matter the advice/warnings etc you give them ultimately they're adults making their own adult decisions/choices in which you'll never change.  your intentions are noble and good however "saving" everyone from the bad isn't your job.

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 6:10:22 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I wanna be the Pope. Then all of the newbies can come and sit in the pews and learn from me. Mmmm is sitting in a pew a kink?

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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 6:10:27 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		lol i love this chelle!! i'm even one of those that have gotten hurt. i even knew better but still went. After i got hurt yeah i felt sorry for myself. i felt ashamed and stupid for going when i knew i shouldn't have. Then i learned from that mistake and never made it again.

quote:

i hate to be darwinistic, but if someone can't figure out how to do things from what is out there and survive - i am not too sure you should be playing with the adults...the resources are already there, you just have to use them...
 

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/25/2008 6:22:35 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

shouldn't there be a FAQ/Newbie training and advisory board in here where we keep the fry until they're too big to be eaten by the predators?


Nah.
I think people should exercise common sense.
And if your system was in place, how do you decide when the fry are ready to be turned out into the big, bad world?  Is there a test?  A checklist?  Is this how we find them smart enough to navigate their life?
No thanks.


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