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RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 3:52:36 AM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

   didja ever use brown sugar on them ad-hominem attacks? makes em much sweeter and easier on the palate. it also heps if ya let the maple syrup drift over from the pancakes.

  btw, before i leave for breakfast, which has, for some unknown reason, sprung to mind....if this seems ridiculous and way off base i will readily admit to that.
   1. it is a great idea, but the dynamic of learning from experience, and the more experienced also has merit.
   2. i don't allow my UM's to put their info on their profile because of the potential for predators on the internet. (i also tell them not to give their name and phone number to people they do not know, and i don't let them wear clothes with bull's eyes printed on them) they are tough kids, but they do lack experience, and i kind of like having them around, and actually enjoy seeing them puzzle things out.
     3. Can't we all just get along?

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(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 121

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 10:07:37 AM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

As others mentioned having a newbie forum has its downsides the biggest being it limits the wealth of seasoned knowledge to the newbie, and at the same time can create a more dangerous element for them. There are always be the predators visiting sites such as these, on the look out for individuals who are weak and would be easy to seduce, so by isolating the newbies and pointing them out by having a forum of their own, it makes a great hunting for the predators to find that particular newbie who is getting involve here in desperation wanting to be loved, and those with low esteem or those rebounding from another relationship, these are the people easiest to victimize, they are also the ones who will throw common sense out the window and refuse the listen once someone starts paying loving and attentive care to them,    by pointing out they are new, means they also do not know all the rules yet

So the predator now can easily find them, will quickly seduce them, before they gain too much knowledge showers them with caring and loving attention {and the newbie advice also teaches the predator what things they can say to the target sub they are chasing to quickly let down their defenses so you are not just teaching the newbie you are also providing tools for the predator to use}. Those target subs will get swept up in all that loving attention and think they have met the most wonderful person in the world not knowing it is simply a facade inorder to trap them. Once the predator has the target sub hooked emotionally, it become time to isolate the target sub, So they spill out the magic words, "I love you so much, I want to collar you and make you mine forever, you are so special to me, but I am afraid someone else will try to steal you away, and I would hate for that to happen because you mean so much to me, so I need to ask you shut down your profile and stop coming to this site because I cannot stand the thought of losing you and having to worry every day that somebody may take you away and do not know how much longer I can stand worrying day in day out, please do this for me to end the torture this is causing me"   ....Target sub agrees because he has been so loving attentive and kind , she does not want to see him hurting. Now successfully isolated    the predator has won and the real trouble begins.

You see I know how predators work, I met mine when I was 19 years old and spent 2 years in purgatory married to him with the police having to help get me out, and the next few years having to go underground to keep myself and our infant son safe from him,    So I know what it is like to be a victim and I sympathize with those who get themselves in trouble, but I also recall those who tried to warn me but I felt so loved and cared for at the time by him, I felt they had no idea what they what they were talking about so refused to listen and when I mentioned what people were saying to me to him, him said they were jealous of our relationship or disliked him and where trying to come between us, which in itself helped to start the isolation process.

Having a newbie forum really does nothing for the sub who has good self esteem, social skills and not searching out of desperation for love, they are already in the right frame of mind to use their common sense and make healthy choices, it may provide them with a couple safety tip that is easier to find ....but they would have found it anyway either by asking or searching themselves.   But for the remainder who are the greatest risk of being victimized a newbie forum will actually increase their risks of getting into trouble because it easier for the predators find them because they are concentrated in one area of the CM board.

You may say well the solution to this is just keep Dominants out of the forum newbie forum, but then you also lock out good advice as well,    I know personally for me some of the best I have recieved as a newbie came from Dominants. But it will not dissuade the predators, they would just find another means to get in , just like pedophiles... they set up another account   and then enter posed as a newbie sub and hunt that way once they found their target,   they then email that sub using their Dom profile and the game begins.

Believe me GiantStep , I understand you mean well and that your spirit and heart is in the right place,   but I have the first hand experience as a former victim and came to know and understand my predator very well, that learning did not end when I finally was able to leave, it took years learning to understand why and how it happened. Even if you had been my best friend at the time when I met him and tried to offer me all your wisdom, it would not have changed the outcome, the only way things could have turned out differently is if I had never met him in the first place or if prior events in my life never occured that resulted to make me the vulnerable person I was then,

_____________________________

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(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 122

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 11:02:10 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GiantSteps

AS - I dunno; I could go back through volumes to grab the other refs, but " it sounded like you were trying to white-knight your way into some newbie panties" sounds pretty cut-and-dryed to me. And that's where this last round of back-and forth started.

I don't mind ditching a concept, but to have the idea floating around that I'm doing the very thing I find villianously repugnant is just going to wind me back up again. If you could imagine someone suggesting you were out to molest children, that's about where my explosive ire begins on this subject.

Instead of taking it as a personal attack you could look it objectively and see that people are going "Are you really trying to help? Or are you just another person who says they want to help while wanting fresh meat that doesn't know any better?" It's actually doing exactly what you say you want - protecting those new to the group.

We don't know you and I've never met a scam artist who is so bad he actually tells you he is one.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 123

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 11:07:40 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

As much as I'd like to agree with the new protection stuff I just can't. Search the posts and use your head. It's simple shit. For all of those who are worried about molesters on CM there is a search feature for new members. I know I know it's a big bad world out there, but hey were are all adults.

BadOne

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(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 124

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 2:14:38 PM

GiantSteps

Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline

Maya - actually with you on most of that; the one thing I hadn't considered was that back on Alt.Bondage there was no way to contact boardies except through the posts - no email or PM functionality on usenet. So there's something to be said about a large contingent of newbies all laid out in a row with a IM button handy I hadn't thought of. That's self-defeating from a safety standpoint, sure 'nuff. Better they stay cloaked than advertise.

Of course, along that line, Alt.bondage didn't have that search members function that I always get on the front page; that kind of trolling could happen without ever hitting the boards. I don't know if that's a default or not; I didn't check to see if I showed up on there, but I don't remember checking a buttonsaying I wanted to be included. I dunno if any of the admins read this board, but maybe it would be smart to make sure that's a selection rather than default.

Natch, you couldn't keep the D's out of the newbie forum - heck, there are newbie Ds out there that need as much if not more help, since they're taking on responsibility for another trusting person. But above and beyond that... well, lety me quote something I just wrote out via mail to someone -

"...without buy-in from a large number of BDSM vets to provide this kind of community service, the workload in maintaining an effective board would be impossible. Here in CM (theoretically), the vet membership is large enough to support this service without demanding more than a minute or two from each of its veteran members on any given day. A focused newbie board independent of veteran interest brings in the sheep without the availability of shepherds, and thus becomes a hunting ground for the predators it hopes to protect against."

"Even if you could round up a small number of vets, you run into two problems. First, you don't get the automatic checks and balances inherent in a large knowledge base. Referencing that bullwhip thread, if you happen to get maybe one person even familiar handling one - a small niche of the community - there's no counterpoint if that person happens to be a little too ambitious for safe N sane. That's one of the places where good intentions turn into disasters in the making."

I called it a Catch-22, just made worse by the revelation of that IM function. I wish there was some loophole in this I can see, and I'll probably keep cooking on it - as I said to SailingBum, I was the resident mother hen back in the day, and it looks like time hasn't changed me.

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 125

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 2:27:37 PM

GiantSteps

Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline

SB - yep. That search function is my next crusade... ~ rides off, singing "I am I, Don Quixote, the Man of LaMancha..."~

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 126

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 2:55:24 PM

GiantSteps

Posts: 61
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Nigh Philadelphia
Status: offline

AS - sorry for skipping you there; SB's mention of the search function seemed to flow immediately.

There's truth in what you say, surely; and I'm not sure I could explain to you -and have you believe- the extent of my ingrained protectiveness, in and out of scene.My being here now follows a five-year saga of personal doo-gooderism that earned me a heart attack at 45... But I won.

After running through that nightly drama and midnight rescue missions and so forth, I am decidedly thin-skinned when my intentions are called into question. Certainly nobody here knows that side of me, but I think you can see how, under those circumstances, honor becomes a hot-button for me.It's one of those cases of irresistable force an immovable objects that occur at times, and I hope everyone can appreciate that circumstance and forgive any excess.

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 127

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 2:56:38 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
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Instead of a board, perhapes links to essays or "reports" of things every newbie needs to know. That way it wouldn't need to be monitored, and newbies wouldn't be targeted while using. when I started 2 years ago, it would have been very helpful if there had been a place where I could have gone to see what i didn't know - like safety calls, and meeting in a public place first. You can't get educated until you know what you need to learn , and in an underground society like BDSM, newbies are helpless.
I didn't know these things, and my puter didn't give them to me, so there I was - out in the middle of the field during duck season - and I didn't!
I was exceptionally lucky in who I went to meet, and haven't looked back since, but am , now, well aware that I was extremely lucky. quack.

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 128

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 3:00:22 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

1. Anyone wanting to learn about hings relating to bdsm is welcome to lurk here and read.

2. There are no standards for determining who is most qualified to teach-people are welcome to use whatever they can take away from a vast collection presented here, and use it as they see fit.

3. Newbies have a tendency to go into frenzies and want to do it all now-and nothing we can do will disuade those who indulge those impluses to forgo both the risks and benfits inherent in doing so.

4. And with the first three being realized-trying to force people down paths they just don't want to go down is futile-and a waste of time.

_____________________________

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I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 129

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 3:01:57 PM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

You can use the search feature for that, and I have found loads of essays which I read when i was researching into it, now I disregard most of it as being full of crap to be honest, problem is I think as a sub i learned the 'one true way' theory first becuase i read so much, I learned all the protocol and all that rubbish, the essays were written by people like me I mean how if there is no one true way can we learn, just look at some of the 'teaching' posts on here. Its like "dont learn their bad habbits" because then you have to train yourself out of it, now I realise that I have my own brains and dont have to be told what to think or want or whatever. The saftey stuff is common sense really, and I think everyone has bad experiances no matter how informed they are.

< Message edited by colouredin -- 3/27/2008 3:03:27 PM >

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(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 130

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 3:17:39 PM

Bound2One

Posts: 614
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GiantSteps

As far as I am concerned at this point, the official CM position is that newbies that do stupid things do it because they are stupid and deserve it, they don't post because they have no questions to ask, shouldn't bug people unless they've researched a subject themselves, and nobody should feel responsibility for bringing up the next wave. I will continue to disagree with this position, but I won't foward an alternative again.

Nope, you're wrong. I started posting this past November - newbie, definitely. Fairly new to BDSM, too. I've asked a few questions, discussed and learned. I don't NEED anyone feeling responsible for me. I can do that all by myself, thank you very kindly. I don't want anyone feeling responsible for me. Except my Master, of course, who does a lovely job. And newbies do ask questions. I just saw a couple today. Perhaps you need to hang around more before casting judgments. Seriously, you've come across as very arrogant.

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 131

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 3:58:43 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Instead of a board, perhapes links to essays or "reports" of things every newbie needs to know. That way it wouldn't need to be monitored, and newbies wouldn't be targeted while using. when I started 2 years ago, it would have been very helpful if there had been a place where I could have gone to see what i didn't know - like safety calls, and meeting in a public place first. You can't get educated until you know what you need to learn , and in an underground society like BDSM, newbies are helpless.
I didn't know these things, and my puter didn't give them to me, so there I was - out in the middle of the field during duck season - and I didn't!
I was exceptionally lucky in who I went to meet, and haven't looked back since, but am , now, well aware that I was extremely lucky. quack.

Here you go.

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(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 132

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 4:17:10 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GiantSteps

AS - sorry for skipping you there; SB's mention of the search function seemed to flow immediately.

There's truth in what you say, surely; and I'm not sure I could explain to you -and have you believe- the extent of my ingrained protectiveness, in and out of scene.My being here now follows a five-year saga of personal doo-gooderism that earned me a heart attack at 45... But I won.

After running through that nightly drama and midnight rescue missions and so forth, I am decidedly thin-skinned when my intentions are called into question. Certainly nobody here knows that side of me, but I think you can see how, under those circumstances, honor becomes a hot-button for me.It's one of those cases of irresistable force an immovable objects that occur at times, and I hope everyone can appreciate that circumstance and forgive any excess.

You know... you can mother hen someone so much you actually hurt them. It's not that hard to do. Consider backing off if not for your own sake but theirs. Children who never fall and get hurt learn to walk much later.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to GiantSteps)

Post #: 133

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/27/2008 9:36:08 PM

loveandlight87

Posts: 110
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

chellekitty,

As a "newbie" sub (1 month) i completely concur with your assessment. There is so much information available, but there is also good old fashioned common sense. It does break my heart when i hear about people being mistreated (in a negative way), but all one needs to do is read or listen to the news to know that unfortunately there are a lot of bad people out there. What makes anyone believe that the online/bdsm world would be any different? Be careful, take your time and use your head.

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 134

RE: SUGGESTION - Newbie Boot camp - 3/28/2008 3:35:48 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loveandlight87

chellekitty,

As a "newbie" sub (1 month) i completely concur with your assessment. There is so much information available, but there is also good old fashioned common sense. It does break my heart when i hear about people being mistreated (in a negative way), but all one needs to do is read or listen to the news to know that unfortunately there are a lot of bad people out there. What makes anyone believe that the online/bdsm world would be any different? Be careful, take your time and use your head.

Ssshhhh. You're supposed to be helpless.

_____________________________

(in reply to loveandlight87)

Post #: 135

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