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Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:26:17 PM   
mslecuir


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline 		There seems to be a debate of sorts going on within this site about if sex is a part of BDSM or not. I will add my 2 cents here. In my professional opinion, true BDSM does NOT involve sex. For proof of this go to your local BDSM group. You should not see any type of sex going on. I concur that adding BDSM to a relationship is a wonderful way to add some variety to a relationship. But it should not be added to a casual relationship for the purpose of initiating sex. Trust is the issue. How can you truly trust someone that you hardly know? Yes, there are many out there who use BDSM as a vehicle to get in someones pants. You know the type. This is just an ulterial motive and not a true interest in BDSM. I was very hardline with this doctorine when I was Pro. I had to be...I was not, under any circumstances a sex worker. No sex was involved period. On the other hand, once I found out how much more enjoyable sex was when you experimented with some BDSM with someone you cared about, it changed much for me. I realized that in this time of my life my BDSM career was much too impersonal and lacked the intimacy that I desperately needed. I realize that some can draw the line and can play at local groups and change up in the bedroom. This is something that I do not do anymore. I have no desire to do so and that is my personal choice. Hence what it says in my profile..."I do NOT engage in BDSM activities with anyone that I'm not in a relationship with". I know that this may seem incongruent to some...but it is my personal choice. Don't forget that respect is a big part of any relationship, friendly or intimate. So who is right and who is wrong? You be the judge. Hopefully this will generate some meaningfull discussion and not negative banter. Remember to always be respectful enough to listen to others views and to try to walk a mile in their shoes before reacting.
 
Ms Le Cuir
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:28:38 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yes please.

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:30:19 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		I think that so many think that BDSM is ONLY about sex .. and without sex it isnt complete....that is not the way I was trained ...

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To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:32:57 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Some think sex and BDSM  do not mix. and others cant picture it without it. I am under this opinion. There is room for both types of people here. I am not a professional so when I seek relations, I am seeking a partner. I understand a professional Domme not wanting to be identified with prostitutes. However, At my club I have seen people having sex or not having sex. Either one is allowed there. Neither type of view is considered wrong

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:37:04 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I can only give my opinion. I don't "play" or attend local functions. I may know people with the interest, but to me, its a private part of a relationship. Its part of my sex drive (or so mixed with it I can't separate them easily). Its also part of a relationship with another person. For myself, to separate it, would strip it of its intimacy and feeling. It would be acting.

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:44:48 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Remember to always be respectful enough to listen to others views and to try to walk a mile in their shoes before reacting.


Let's see if this holds true...
quote:

In my professional opinion, true BDSM does NOT involve sex.


Our view is BDSM IS sex. It generates the similar satisfaction, if not a physical 'climax'. It stimulates us and involves physical, as well as mental, participation.

quote:

For proof of this go to your local BDSM group.
Granted, LA is a vast area and our "local group" is similarly diverse. However, if you don't want to witness an exception to this the rule - avoid going to The Lair on any given Friday or Saturday night. 

quote:

You should not see any type of sex going on.
Again a matter of perspective, however some of the greatest 'intercourse' I've witnessed didn't involve penetration. And speaking for beth, you may not "see" it, but its happening (with permission) I assure you, regardless of the venue.

I think its a great rationalization to consider the intimacy involved with BDSM non sexual. It is a defense offered commonly for men and woman who otherwise would have to consider themselves 'cheaters' regarding their spouses or significant others. Naked, sweating, passion with the endorphins flowing, given and received;  it's not a cathartic prayer meeting.

But if BDSM is not sex, what else is it? Therapeutic? Guilt purging? Suppressed memory counseling technique?


There's now 4 cents in the pot.

(in reply to mslecuir)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:45:05 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mslecuir

 In my professional opinion, true BDSM does NOT involve sex.
TWUE BDSM???
 
quote:

 For proof of this go to your local BDSM group. You should not see any type of sex going on.
Most BDSM clubs do not allow sex for legal reasons. 
 
In some places it's illegal to engage in sex while your partner is bound, because then it's rape.
 
In some places, paying admission at the door would be sex for money.
 
In some places, that would put it in the same category as a swingers club and have to follow the same regulations. (In San Diego, that means that you cannot exchange phone numbers or make arrangements to see each other outside of the club while you are inside the club.)
 
There are a lot of legal reasons why most BDSM clubs do not allow sex. So, that discounts your proof.
 
The other discount of your proof is that one of the oldest private organziations in the country is in the LA area. It's an "anything goes" party.
 
If you choose not to have sex within BDSM that's your choice. But, it has nothing to do with being "twue" or not.
 
 

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(in reply to mslecuir)
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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:51:10 PM   
sweetwenchie


Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		i have seen both flesh on flesh and flesh on sexual devices types of sex at our local play parties and clubs, so i cannot find "proof" quite so simply.  For some, "play" is another form of foreplay, for others the play is enough for them.   What do you consider "true" BDSM?

Personally, while i enjoy non sexual playing when i am single and unattached, when i am taken i could not and simply would not want to try and separate the two.  Greedy little wench that i am, i want it all... play, pain, sex, love, sensation, mental stimulation, phyical stimulation...

i cannot say who is "right or wrong", as far as i am concerned it is whatever is "right" for each person and their own dynamics.

edited to play with myself, and to correct dumbass typos

< Message edited by sweetwenchie -- 3/25/2008 1:52:15 PM >

_____________________________

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"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to mslecuir)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:53:24 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mslecuir

true BDSM does NOT involve sex.

You are new to the forums, so maybe you haven't heard, but there is NO TRUE WAY....only the true way for each, individual realtionship.....The relationship that i live in 24/7 DOES include sex, but that isn't ALL of it by any stretch, but you are not the true Police anc cannot say that the relationship ishare with my Daddy is NOT TRUE cause it involves sex. (Damn, i wonder if my Daddy knows we aren't supposed to be having sex to be a real and true M/s couple that engages in BDSM)

quote:


You should not see any type of sex going on.

Who says?????????????????? You? We don't go to BDSM clubs where we can't partake in sexual activities if he so desires it for us...words like SHOULD are probably not the best choice, unless, you are really, truly, factually the True/Real/Should Police. (are you? If so, forgive me officer)


quote:


that adding BDSM to a relationship is a wonderful way to add some variety to a relationship.

And that is a grrrreat thing for some, but what about those of us who live it as a natural part of our dynamic? The way you said it, it sounds demeaning to those of us who are looking for an actual relationship dynamic and not leaving it at bedroom BDSM.....like "Oh yeah, we were bored and decided to spice things up and try on the hat of BDSM and see how that variety works for us, if it doesn't maybe we can try clown suits or something next time.)

quote:


But it should not be added to a casual relationship for the purpose of initiating sex.

There ya go with SHOULD again....(did you write the BDSM Big Book or something?) Who says it SHOULDN'T be added to a casual relationship? What if my Daddy and i play with other people? That's sure as hell casual....are we wrong? Cause we are doing what YOU say we shouldn't?


quote:



Very hardline with this doctorine when I was Pro. 

And that is fine for when you are pro, but to think the rules that you use when you are pro should some how go across the board to people living the lifestyle, isn't fair....You aren't the Domme of everyone.
quote:


'So who is right and who is wrong? You be the judge.


i'd rather not judge anyone else's relationships.....who is right or who is wrong? NO ONE unless they feel they are.....You are JUDGING by the whole first part of your post, you are dictating what is right and what is wrong....Maybe try prefacing all of your broad generalizations and SHOULDS with, "I think, or I believe....


quote:


Hopefully this will generate some meaningfull discussion and not negative banter.


You didn't necessariy start off on the most positive and non-judgemental foot did you?

quote:


Remember to always be respectful enough to listen to others views and to try to walk a mile in their shoes before reacting.


Sure, i can listen to others, i do it ALL the time on these boards, but when the person asking for that didn't do the same, and JUDGED from the moment she posted....well, take a dose of your own medicine.....



i get where the majority of the end of yourpost was coming from, and PRO is such a differnt animal, and i am not talking out my ass here, cause i was a pro Domme for years........i didn't have sex with them for many reasons....but looking at those situations and my current dynamic of  almost 3 years, they are like comparing apples and cheese.....they're both food, but not even in the same category.


Edited to add: Ummmmm HELL YES SEX! (what mercnbeth said about the Lair THANK GAWD for the Lair).............i can have most of BDSM without sex.....i can have BDSM with sex........i can have my life with BDSM.....but i can't have sex or life WITHOUT BDSM.


< Message edited by daddyncherry -- 3/25/2008 2:01:24 PM >

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Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to mslecuir)
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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 1:55:15 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know about the rest of you but check the other rooms behind curtains etc...There is plenty of sex to go around at most bdsm events...Of course I may just be attending some very kinky events....

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:03:47 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		What's good for you is that.. for you...

don't should on me, ok? ... sex is many many things, way beyond genital contact.. my leather is leather sex.. and I don't know where you're playing, but you might want to find a different space...

the rules do vary, but not because you shouldn't mix sex and bdsm (seems like they are subsets of one another, no?) the rules are there because of the laws in various places about sex and money.. and liquor laws.. depends on where you live...

(in reply to mslecuir)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:12:22 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Let's start here.  Your 'professional' opinion doesn't make yours worth more or less than anyone else on this site.  Your personal choices are yours, of course, but they really don't influence anyone besides yourself and the people that you chose to be involved with.  Whether other people chose to mix sex with their BDSM, play casually, or anything else is completely up to them. 

Edited to add:  That post, of course, was directed at the OP.

Madame4a, each day, I think we are more and more alike.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 3/25/2008 2:13:49 PM >

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:17:15 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

I don't know about the rest of you but check the other rooms behind curtains etc...There is plenty of sex to go around at most bdsm events...Of course I may just be attending some very kinky events....


ohhh i want to go where you are going :P

To the OP, I have had casual play, I have had play with no sex and I have had play with sex. For me BDSM can in a large part be very sexual (not all of it but certainly most 'scenes'). True BDSM is whatever you want it to be, each person is differant, I know of some people who never have sex within their D/s relationship. Each to their own, viva la differance, live and let live. Your way is your way for whatever reasons that you choose that way, your ideas certainly do not apply to everyone elses.


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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:17:23 PM   
mastervalentine


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mslecuir

 So who is right and who is wrong? 
 


Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' ~ Kahlil Gibran


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"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:24:52 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		And I thought I was condecending?
There is no true way.  There is a true way for yourself, but that does not hold for others.
BDSM is an acronym of activities - of course it isn't sex.  But it can lead to sex.  It can enhance sex.  It can acheive orgasm.  It can be a one night moment with someone you have absolutely no respect for because it is the first time you have met.
I do believe you should practise what you preach, do not tell people you have never met, and not likely to meet, what they can and cannot do - what they can and cannot write, and do not try to walk in a pair of shoes you have no hope of filling, let alone have the capacity to understand.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:25:48 PM   
TheLookingGirl


Posts: 162
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: A city near you.
Status: offline 		My response to this has already been posted numerous times by those above *points*. There are no rules. To me, BDSM IS sexual. I get sexual gratification out of the things I do, and the things that are done to me. I enjoy bdsm because its a turn on, not because it's a game. And I too do not participate in bdsm acts unless in a relationship. I can't do casual *no one night stands or play dates with strangers*. I need an emotional side to things that can only happen once you know and care about someone. However, these are things I want and need. I'm not speaking for everyone, only myself.

I can only guess that your definition of sex is penetration or oral stimulation, as you refused to do these things as a Pro. Which I completely understand. But don't you think that some of those you provided your "service" to got sexual gratification from it?

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The strongest & most effective force in assuring the long-term maintenance of power is not violence in all the forms deployed by the dominant to control the dominated,but consent in all the forms in which the dominated acquiesce in their own domination.

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:28:50 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		sex is the # 1 reason why i will never find anyone who wants me from the bdsm community.  because it is the most important factor and it should be the LEAST important factor to a bdsm relationship.  i do not offer sex.  i am not a sex toy.  i am not a slut.  i am a human being with real feelings, wants and needs that out way sex in importance.  its called love.

profiles: couple seeks 3rd to join us, my master has asked me to find another girl for fun, bi girl seeks another girl to try new experiences with same sex... blah blah blah.... just a few examples.

most sub men who are in bdsm want their jollies off.  these are called wankers.  the community is full of them.

there are i would say about 20% (just a random # meaning it is a very low %) of people who want a relationship based on D/s.  they have many many years of experience and have owned slaves before.  too few exist and there needs to be more actual lifestylers and not just kinksters and sexaholics.

i have been actively looking since 1998.  started on bondage, then on alt, then cm.  its all the same thing.... your a what??? (with regards to me being intersexed, and early on with being trans and no knowledge of intersexed)  the interest just dies right there.


< Message edited by faerytattoodgirl -- 3/25/2008 2:31:30 PM >

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:30:25 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine


Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' ~ Kahlil Gibran



Hey...I'll offer up the Gibran around here....

(kidding) Don't you dig it?

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:36:01 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		There is a difference in it being sexual and it being totally about oral sex or intercourse .... in my opinion .......

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Sex? or not? My 2 cents... - 3/25/2008 2:43:25 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I will be sure to tell my Owner he can no longer fuck me while I'm bound, clamped and gagged.    I doubt he will be disappointed that he does not meet a poster on CollarMe's definition of what BDSM is.

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Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to mslecuir)
Profile   Post #: 20
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