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RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:08:12 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Total and absolute bullshit. I know: I am a legal alien. I even have an alien number. Strange, isn't it?

Still working on getting that flying saucer to take off: know any good mechanic out there (one with legal tender to work, goes without saying - I wouldn't want to give one of those pesky illegals an opportunity for business :-p ) ?


It's funny that you claim to "know" yet I have never heard the "legal alien" description prior to you. I have met and talked to more than a few who moved here from other countries yet the US gives you and only you the special moniker of legal alien? Interesting.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:08:55 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Ummm, does it seem like , to anyone else, that no one is actually listening to anyone anymore on this thread ?

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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:09:25 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

The point is, and remains ... the people here are total stranger to you. You, like me ... like everyone else here ... has no clue what is in the hearts and minds of total strangers.
 


We had a similar exchange a little while ago. I work with what people tell me, and them with what they hear from me. We take the conversation from there: I, personally, can sometimes tell about somebody's frame of mind from their words. If somebody expresses prejudiced thoughts about the woman in question on this thread (that she is probably violent, of loose moral  virtue, that she's a scammer), I make the deduction that they are, indeed, prejudiced against her.

It's the way of the fora. It only engages me, and I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

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Profile   Post #: 243
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:10:44 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Ummm, does it seem like , to anyone else, that no one is actually listening to anyone anymore on this thread ?


Bah, sometimes we hear too much anyway  .

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Profile   Post #: 244
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:13:38 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

It's funny that you claim to "know" yet I have never heard the "legal alien" description prior to you. I have met and talked to more than a few who moved here from other countries yet the US gives you and only you the special moniker of legal alien? Interesting.



What can I say? I'm a special kind of woman, Smithers. But you knew that already. Let me enlighten you, since you don't believe my very personal, recent and direct experience:

quote:



A foreigner is a citizen of the United States not a citizen of the state in question as in a New York corporation is a foreign company inside New Jersey. Types of "alien" persons are:
  • An alien insurer is company which is a citizen of another country.
  • An alien who is legally permitted to remain in a country which is foreign to him or her. On specified terms, this kind of alien may be called a legal alien of that country.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)

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Profile   Post #: 245
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:14:07 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Fair enough ... but when we live in a nation that can't ever come together enough to solve our problems ... perhaps you can deduce why.

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I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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Profile   Post #: 246
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:15:00 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Here, let me help you get that dust out of your eye :-) .

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Profile   Post #: 247
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:16:02 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

What can I say? I'm a special kind of woman, Smithers. But you knew that already. Let me enlighten you, since you don't believe my very personal, recent and direct experience:

A foreigner is a citizen of the United States not a citizen of the state in question as in a New York corporation is a foreign company inside New Jersey. Types of "alien" persons are:
  • An alien insurer is company which is a citizen of another country.
  • An alien who is legally permitted to remain in a country which is foreign to him or her. On specified terms, this kind of alien may be called a legal alien of that country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)


We call those visitors, not aliens. Because you're not yet a citizen and you're here "on specified terms." In common conversation, the term "legal alien" is rarely, if ever, used.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:19:30 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Its just my personal crusade kSol ... we are never going to move past caveman America, until we put down the knives.
 
I'm young, probably nieve ... I'm also going to be late for getting my Saturday drink on, if I hang around here any longer ... and I'm sure we will do this again next month anyway.

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I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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Profile   Post #: 249
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:20:44 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		I often wonder what the native americans had to say when the ships began arriving on the eastern shores."oh my god those illegals perhaps we should build a very large fence'...just my two cents..bounty

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Profile   Post #: 250
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:21:13 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Okkkkayy... Smithers, I know you really like talking to me... but you have to find a better way to engage me in conversation than by denying the existence of something that's actually out there for all to see  .

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Profile   Post #: 251
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:23:56 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

I often wonder what the native americans had to say when the ships began arriving on the eastern shores."oh my god those illegals perhaps we should build a very large fence'...just my two cents..bounty


I often wonder when people are going to drop the tired "native american" argument and address issues in the present. Wondering what a conquered people would say is a bit pointless these days. They had their say, and they lost.

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:24:51 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Caitlyn's suggestion is valid: why not legalise the status of all these paperless people and make them into fully fledged human beings?


To paraphrase Charlie Munger, there is no more powerful force in this world than incentives.

The last thing I would like to do is incentivize people to rush into this country as illegal immigrants in hopes that, when the system breaks down, they will be granted a free pass to citizenship or legal residence.  Basically, I'm wholly against this because I think it horribly fucks up the incentive to be a legal immigrant (which I am all for).

In short, so that people understand I try to have a relatively coherent position on this, I believe:

- We should overhaul our immigration laws to better allow for guest workers, recruitment of skilled workers onto a citizenship path, and more rapid applications for political asylum when appropriate.  Cheap labor is good, and skilled labor is better.  We should incentivize people being here in a regulated manner for this, and accomodate it much more than we do.

- We should require either stiff financial penalties or deportation of current illegals.  The former is more likely; basically, we must show that coming here outside the system will not be a net benefit, and in fact, is likely to be a net detriment.  This is to prevent there from being an incentive to work around the system.  If they cannot afford the penalty financially, deport them.

- Likewise, the same kind of stiff financial penalties should be levelled against any US company currently employing illegal immigrants, wherever this can be found (and I mean make a sincere effort to do so).

- Thus, having decriminalized immigration for many immigrants who are economically beneficial to the US, we can insist on greater transparency in hiring, more adequate collection of taxes, more accurate information on immigrants in the country, and more efficient law enforcement among immigrant communities.

But giving a free pass to people who broke and ignored the law to get here already is a bad move; it encourages more of the same later.  There must be a penalty.  This is why I am for deporting the woman in this case, primarily, though she seems not exactly to be the kind of responsible citizen I would like to encourage to come to this country in the first place.

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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:25:10 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Okkkkayy... Smithers, I know you really like talking to me... but you have to find a better way to engage me in conversation than by denying the existence of something that's actually out there for all to see  .


I'm sorry, but wikipedia isn't widely recognized for its accuracy, especially when I clicked the link you pasted and saw nothing resembling what you quoted.

When millions and billions of people can access wikipedia and change it for their own ends, it's reliability becomes suspect.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:28:36 PM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER
I often wonder what the native americans had to say when the ships began arriving on the eastern shores."oh my god those illegals perhaps we should build a very large fence'...just my two cents..bounty


actually Bounty, is was more like,
"hey visitors are coming! everyone start cooking and get out your best blankets so
theyll be comforable"
and after they got off the ships,
" wow look how pale they are, they must be ill. oh my, they all look the same.
what is that sutff on their faces? hair? eww!"


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Profile   Post #: 255
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:48:02 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Illegal this, illegal that, and all the outrage about it. Kinda funny, don'tcha think, when most of the folks on these bords, and off ( like your neighbors and mom and pop) routinely engage in sexual practices that are illegal in many if not most states. And I'm referring here to so called "vanilla" sex practices. For example, many states have laws against sodomy which they define not only as anal sex but also any kind of oral sex, etc..

 
Which SCOTUS has determined to be unconstitutional.

quote:


As far as popeye being honest and consistent ( and I don't mean to single him out or bash him in ay way) honesty and consistency, while often admirable, are not always neccesarily so. For example, does any one doubt that George W. Bush has been honest and consistent his whole time in office ? I have no doubt, that boy Gearge  is sincere in his  views and beliefs, but honest doesn't make you right, do it ? And we all know the sonofabitch has been consistent as hell in his policies in Iraq and where has that gotten us and the rest of the world ?

Just sayin'



Honesty should very much be admirable most of the time, as it is very rare these days. Of course it will not be admirable all of the time, as there are very few absolutes in life.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 256
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 5:53:08 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Actually what you do is jump to a conclusion, based upon your life experiences and limited facts. Many of us do, but some are willing to admit to themselves that all they know of a person are words written on a message board, while others believe they know everything the person thinks and feels.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

The point is, and remains ... the people here are total stranger to you. You, like me ... like everyone else here ... has no clue what is in the hearts and minds of total strangers.
 


We had a similar exchange a little while ago. I work with what people tell me, and them with what they hear from me. We take the conversation from there: I, personally, can sometimes tell about somebody's frame of mind from their words. If somebody expresses prejudiced thoughts about the woman in question on this thread (that she is probably violent, of loose moral  virtue, that she's a scammer), I make the deduction that they are, indeed, prejudiced against her.

It's the way of the fora. It only engages me, and I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.


You mean back when there was plenty of land and natural resources?


quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

I often wonder what the native americans had to say when the ships began arriving on the eastern shores."oh my god those illegals perhaps we should build a very large fence'...just my two cents..bounty


< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 3/29/2008 5:56:40 PM >

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 257
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 6:03:27 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Okkkkayy... Smithers, I know you really like talking to me... but you have to find a better way to engage me in conversation than by denying the existence of something that's actually out there for all to see  .


I'm sorry, but wikipedia isn't widely recognized for its accuracy, especially when I clicked the link you pasted and saw nothing resembling what you quoted.

When millions and billions of people can access wikipedia and change it for their own ends, it's reliability becomes suspect.



You seem to enjoy being arguementive instead of checking your own so called facts.


Is a goverment website sufficient proof for you that aliens  is a term used?


quote:

For United States citizens and permanent resident aliens, the documentation will only need to be submitted once. Once the Department's records reflect that an individual has permanent status in the United States, there will be no further need to update the record. However, for resident aliens who do not have permanent status, documentation showing legal presence will need to be submitted with each license renewal.
  http://www.dre.ca.gov/lic_proof.html

from the United state court of appeals the term "legal alien" is used several times
http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/01/10/011034P.pdf.  





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Profile   Post #: 258
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 6:22:06 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

You seem to enjoy being arguementive instead of checking your own so called facts.


And what so called facts do you allege that I don't check?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

Is a goverment website sufficient proof for you that aliens  is a term used?


I imagine it would be, however, you can show all the documents you like, documents are not "common use." I watch the news nightly, I pay attention to political debates and prior to today, I have never heard the term "legal alien."

That's because when they are legal, it's more PC to call them immigrants, or naturalized citizens. That's why on debates about illegal immigration, I frequently see either "illegal alien" or "immigrant."

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: those damn illegals - 3/29/2008 6:28:23 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Smith, you're enjoying the public spanking? "Legal alien" is a widely used expression; "alien" is an official term for foreigners in the United States; I even have a frikkin' "alien number" on my residency papers.

Good enough for ya?

For fucksake ROFL!

quote:



The green card is formally known as the Alien Registration Receipt Card, Form I-151 or I-551. The first receipt cards were Form AR-3 (printed on white paper), and were the product of the Alien Registration Act of 1940. Designed as a national defense measure, the Act required all aliens (non-U.S. citizens) within the United States to register with the U.S. Government. They registered at Post Offices, and their registration forms were forwarded to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) for processing. After processing, a receipt card (Form AR-3) was mailed to each registrant as proof of their compliance with the law. The Alien Registration Act, however, did not discriminate between legal and illegal alien residents. All were registered, and all received AR-3's in return.



www.uscis.gov

Edit: Sting himself sang a song about it.

I'm an alien
I'm a legal alien
I'm a gentleman in New York

Gentleman in New York

If a song from popular culture that contains the term isn't good enough evidence that the term "legal alien" is used widely everyday (as well as in legal and immigration jargon), I pray that all that surround you show the infinite patience it would require to deal with your obtusiveness :-) .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/29/2008 6:31:57 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 260
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