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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 3:47:33 PM

HerLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

i started thinking about this while i was reading SteelofUtah's post and how i flirt all the time without thinking about it...like a few weeks ago i was at a meeting and my Owner called me back to him with a sharp "woman" because the week before i had been talking to this guy and apparently i had gotten him all riled up and he didn't want it to happen again (the guy was a newcomer to the program - 12 step meeting, 12 step program - and was looking for anyway to change the way he felt) and all i was going to do was go say hi, see if his week had gone better...i didn't know i had been flirting with huge amounts of sexual under(over?)tones...

anyway...this got me to thinking...is there a level of flirty-ness acceptable for men vs women in this lifestyle? or is it submissives vs dominants? does single vs in a relationship make a difference? is there i only so much societal influence can do before instinct takes over, especially in regards to dominance structure?

i know i have my own views on the subject, but i would like to hear from others before i post them...

take care
chelle

I like flirting.

*flirting, (badly)*
Wanna get naked?

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 4:40:30 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

i started thinking about this while i was reading SteelofUtah's post and how i flirt all the time without thinking about it...like a few weeks ago i was at a meeting and my Owner called me back to him with a sharp "woman" because the week before i had been talking to this guy and apparently i had gotten him all riled up and he didn't want it to happen again (the guy was a newcomer to the program - 12 step meeting, 12 step program - and was looking for anyway to change the way he felt) and all i was going to do was go say hi, see if his week had gone better...i didn't know i had been flirting with huge amounts of sexual under(over?)tones...

anyway...this got me to thinking...is there a level of flirty-ness acceptable for men vs women in this lifestyle? or is it submissives vs dominants? does single vs in a relationship make a difference? is there i only so much societal influence can do before instinct takes over, especially in regards to dominance structure?

i know i have my own views on the subject, but i would like to hear from others before i post them...

take care
chelle

My dear...if you're talking about 12 step, as in AA....you sooooooooooo far overstepped the agreed upon bounds of AA that I'm surprised you weren't booted out for life.

In fact...I'm surprised as hell they didn't hand you a bottle of Jack Daniels and tell you to get the fuck out and never come back.

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 6:21:56 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

anyway...this got me to thinking...is there a level of flirty-ness acceptable for men vs women in this lifestyle? or is it submissives vs dominants? does single vs in a relationship make a difference? is there i only so much societal influence can do before instinct takes over, especially in regards to dominance structure?

There is no universal acceptable standard of flirty-ness in the lifestyle or outside. But, everyone will have their own standard that may or may not be the same as another.

I love to flirt!... I love to be flirted with! I also love to see my girls flirt.... and I do enjoy someone flirting with them!!!

I never worry about the sexual verbal innuendos ... the line for me is the sexual physical contact. For one to get physical is a step beyond simple flirting and one needs to have a clear understanding that such contact is acceptable/desired

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 7:38:29 PM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

My dear...if you're talking about 12 step, as in AA....you sooooooooooo far overstepped the agreed upon bounds of AA that I'm surprised you weren't booted out for life.

In fact...I'm surprised as hell they didn't hand you a bottle of Jack Daniels and tell you to get the fuck out and never come back.

Wow if you are serious, isn't that just a tad harsh??????? Seriously, she said she wasn't aware that she was being that way or that there were the under/overtones that she had at the time....She sounds like she was just being herself and herself is flirtatious.

And to even suggest that they should/would give her a bottle of JD????????? WTF???? How wrong is that to even suggest????!!!!

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 7:41:37 PM

petitespitfire64

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Daddy and cherry...I have to agree with you...the comment about the bottle of JD was completely inexcusable.

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 8:14:37 PM

HerLord

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yeah... gris... fucking funny.

But hey. This is the type of thing that women in general get to get away with. It pisses me off that these women (OP, this has nothing to do with this specific scenario but a generalisation of such a standard) are allowed to flirt to any degree they choose and nothing is ever done about it, but IF a guy reacts to it or encourages it in the workplace HE is the one who gets fired. WTFUCK? (damn do I hear a cross post new thread?)

Any way. Women; be kind to us poor simpering bastards that have to put up with all the cockteasing and general mis equalities in the world. You think you got it bad for being women... Be a man in todays world. We not only have to live up to what we have been doing for millenia, we now have to live in a PC world of of bullshit titles and no firemen. They're now Fire Persons. Fuck it all.

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 8:16:49 PM

subtee

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~cough~ "Firefighters"...

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/30/2008 8:20:14 PM

HerLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~cough~ "Firefighters"...

Damnit... even when I'm trying to make a point, I can't get my PC right. Would someone plz write a book of the correct titles of things so I can get it right... The problem with this idea is... It'll all be different in the time it takes to publish, so as soon as it's released it's already out of date, and thusly WRONG!

subtee.... Thnx

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 3:01:47 AM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

My dear...if you're talking about 12 step, as in AA....you sooooooooooo far overstepped the agreed upon bounds of AA that I'm surprised you weren't booted out for life.

In fact...I'm surprised as hell they didn't hand you a bottle of Jack Daniels and tell you to get the fuck out and never come back.

Wow if you are serious, isn't that just a tad harsh??????? Seriously, she said she wasn't aware that she was being that way or that there were the under/overtones that she had at the time....She sounds like she was just being herself and herself is flirtatious.

And to even suggest that they should/would give her a bottle of JD????????? WTF???? How wrong is that to even suggest????!!!!

It's as wrong as flirting with men in AA when they're in a highly vulnerable position, and it's one of the first rules of AA that new members aren't to pair up with, work or associate (or flirt) with members of the opposite sex for at least six months to a year of sobriety.

No question that my sarcasm on the bottle of JD was rude. As rude (and as dangerous) as her entire disregard for another persons sobriety.

Personally, I enjoy a drink occasionally...I also know from friends how devastating that disease is, and if she was so carelous as to do what she suggested (and if my assumption that by "12 step", she meant AA), then she deserved a verbal spanking.

She might have gotten emotionally "bruised" by my words.

The guy might have slipped and made bad decisions thanks to her efforts.

If I had a choice between her being upset with my chastising...and a guy ending up in ER or in a dark alley with a bottle that he didn't want....I'd be quite happy knowing she found my post distasteful.

I know several women in AA who are a) entirely aware of their effect on men, and b) fully respectful of the process....and they take the process vastly more seriously than they do their "lack of knowledge of what they were doing".

If she isn't aware of what she's doing...then I'm entirely satisfied that her Dom chastised her. Apparently it didn't take, or she wouldn't have written her original post.

In a party, fine. In a mixed group of friendly couples....fine.

Not in AA.

Not when people's lives are at stake.

She made a serious mistake...and yes...I'm quite happy to point it out to her in any way that makes it stick.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/31/2008 3:35:17 AM >

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 6:52:15 AM

Tigrita

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I find I'm actually more flirtatious when I'm in a relationship. I feel constantly desired, so my confidence just oozes out of me. I also think I consider it more 'safe' to express myself that way when I'm in a relationship because people who know about the relationship are less likely to take friendly flirting (as in no actual sexual intentions, just being flirty for fun) the wrong way if they know I'm already happily with someone. I get awfuly flirty with my friends and sometimes with acquaintances or strangers, and I do a lot of athletic activities with some very fun, sexy people so it is mandatory that my partner be very secure, or have an open relationship mentality, though I am almost never tempted to follow through on a flirtation sexually. The men I've been with enjoy me exuding my sexuality, and enjoy it when I capture other men's attention, and go home with them (my partner); it is an ego boost to them.

And it goes both ways. I like seeing how sexy my man is, seeing him charm women and having them look at him with stars in their eyes and then getting to be the one who he goes home with and getting to please and enjoy him.

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 8:03:42 AM

CreativeDominant

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I ama flirt and admit it. I enjoy the verbal interplay and the tweaking of the mind and the physiological responses of the people I flirt with and I enjoy it in myself when someone flirts with me. I enjoy watching a submissive I am involved with flirt with others. As long as the line is drawn and it is made clear as to whether or not actual physical contact is desired. That is the line for me, just as it is for Knight and others.

With some folks, you have to make it very clear where that line is...with others, they just seem to know it, and with others you have to be cautious as to how far you go because they cannot distinguish the line.

One last comment...I continue to enjoy flirting with a submissive even once I am involved with her; it keeps my mental juices working. One thing that would disturb me is my submissive flirting with others and not with me and then, when called on it, saying something like "I already HAVE you".

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 9:03:19 AM

daddyncherry

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Griswold,

chellekitty's Op was about flirting in the lifestyle and she cited the example of flirting at the 12 step program to show how unaware she was of her behavior....her Owner scolded her for it, making her aware of her behavior...Seems like he got it undercontrol....Also seems that she is thinking about and conisdering her behavior, as evidenced by her making the OP to begin with.

As far as the rules of program go, you aren't to date or get into a relationship for 6-12 mos so that you can focus on your program, work your steps and not be sidetracked...also, you are in no shape at that point to be with someone else, since you are just getting to know the "new you"....Would she be a good choice of a sponsor for him? NO.....but if her natural way of being is flirty, so much so that she didn't know it until her Owner mentioned it to her, then what she does from that point on would be an indication of her character and whether she needed a spanking, verbal or otherwise.

Aside from that little hijack....

There are some people like myself who have very few boundaries when it comes to things we will discuss...and sometimes i don't realize it until something has fallen out of my mouth, that maybe, it is inappropriate.This can be in conversations with either sex (and i'm straight)..i tend to be pretty blatant as a matter of course....i am desensitized and it can some times mean i say that wrong thing to the wrong people. i don't mean to be flirty, but some one could mistake it as such i'm sure....i am kinda distant, or climical or just totally blunt....i don't mean to flirt at all.

Then there are those, and i can think of three off of the top of my head, my Grandmother & Aunt ( both RIP) and my mom's best friend......Who develop this way of interacting with men that is very flirty....All 3 of them have/had a certain ammount of insecurity/need for male attention and just seemed to be totally different women when men were around.......(i'm sure they believed it to be harmless).......i'm sure if i would've mentioned it they wouldn't have seen it themselves, but it is sooo obvious to an onlooker....my Grandmother did it up to her dying day....it was just part of who she was.........i think it made her feel better and that was a huge part of the motivation rather than seeing the effect it could/may/did have on whoever she was flirting with.

So it seems as though chellekitty was made aware of a certain behavior being done at the wrong place and time....What motivates her, or if she fits into either of the above types only she could answer..But if he brought the fact that she had an issue with it toher attention, then that is the precursor to the first step of controlling that behavior....If you are unaware, you can't change it until you are aware.

i still think what you said was totally inappropriate and that obviously it is her Owners job to reprimand her.

< Message edited by daddyncherry -- 3/31/2008 9:05:48 AM >

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 9:14:53 AM

chellekitty

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quote:

My dear...if you're talking about 12 step, as in AA....you sooooooooooo far overstepped the agreed upon bounds of AA that I'm surprised you weren't booted out for life.

In fact...I'm surprised as hell they didn't hand you a bottle of Jack Daniels and tell you to get the fuck out and never come back.

if flirting would get me kicked out of AA, what does sleeping with the newcomer aka 13th stepping get you? death by firing squad? i don't know what AA meetings you have been to, but maybe you should go to a few more before you make those kinds of statements...and i said a 12 step meeting, not a 12th step call, if that is what you were concerned about..

quote:

If she isn't aware of what she's doing...then I'm entirely satisfied that her Dom chastised her. Apparently it didn't take, or she wouldn't have written her original post.

as addressed by cherry, i am not having any problems not flirting at meetings, i was looking at the acceptability of flirting in general...single men are trolls, single women are valuable treasures, taken submissives should focus all their attention on their dominants, taken dominants can give to more than one submissive...but at the same time, that is reenforcing the dominance structure, that there has to be a single point of authority or else shit goes squirly...nothing to do with my actions at a meeting...but rather the lifestyle...i just realized how much i flirt while i was at a meeting...

edited to add

quote:

then she deserved a verbal spanking.

She might have gotten emotionally "bruised" by my words.

She made a serious mistake...and yes...I'm quite happy to point it out to her in any way that makes it stick.

you make be unaware of this particular ettiquite, but ask any D-type who has been in a relationship with an s-type...it is not your job to repremand someone else's property...and it didn't do anything for me besides make me think that you were missinformed and missguided...

take care.
chelle

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 3/31/2008 9:25:21 AM >

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 11:29:30 AM

FRSguy

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I love to flirt which is probably kind of weird for a guy but its practically to the point where if it breaths I will flirt with it. The further I can go with flirting the better to the point where if I find a girl that is as much as a flirt as I am I have gone as far as pulling them aside and making a flirt agreement. In other words we very seriously talk about the fact that we are just having fun and it means nothing and where the limits are on it (yeah I have run into a few woman that love to flirt as much as I do and it gets really really bad.)

As far as my girl flirting... I LOVE IT.
She is not allowed to touch anyone or allow anyone to touch her (as much as she has control of it) in a sexual maner without permition but other than that she can flirt as much as she wants to at any time with anyone unless I tell her otherwise and is encouraged to do so however at a snap of my fingers it must come to an end. I love it when other people want to be with her and its a huge turn on for me at times especially when strangers that dont know we are together tell me how hot she is. She is pushing 50 and she gets hit on constantly by men as young as in there late teens to early twenties so I know it really makes her feel good. I have offered her a piece of young cock before but she refuses but I know it all makes her feel good and I am definatly all for that. I think people need a certain degree of freedom and acceptance as well as validation and as long as I control her holes who am I to interfear. If a twenty something is obviously having to haul his balls around in wheel barrel because of her antiks.... more power to her.

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 11:54:44 AM

junecleaver

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Going to have to agree that flirting at an AA meeting is inappropriate. I dated a guy who was in AA and would not even hold my hand during the meeting. However, that's not the point...

I am flirting challenged. The only place where flirting comes naturally to me is at work with my customers. When other people flirt with me, I find it flattering but also extremely uncomfortable. I think most people will give you the benefit of the doubt and realize that even if you did go overboard, you did not do it intentionally. Your Dominant seems more than willing to impose his own standards for you so that will give you a clear line of what is and is not appropriate. Hot and functional, wrapped up in one big ole package. ;)

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 1:52:57 PM

HerLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
take care.
chelle
*edited by Her Lord for no specific reason*

Chelle. I would like to point out that while you ARE at the "willing" stage, your obvious lack of awareness of your actions, has indeed shown a fellow recovering addict COMPLETE disregard. Gris aint always nice, in fact if someone shows me some Gris said that was nice I might just drop my pants and smack my pecker with My Loves BOB, but he is rarely outright wrong.

What you did, aware/conscious or other, was jeapordize(sp) the sobriety and health of another human. So to blatantly blow Gris off as in idiot or worse, is simply to slap that fucker in the meeting again. So go on with your badass self. And uhhh... yeah good luck with your sobriety. Hopefully no one will be as disrespectful to you, as you were to this man.

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 4:41:49 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

My dear...if you're talking about 12 step, as in AA....you sooooooooooo far overstepped the agreed upon bounds of AA that I'm surprised you weren't booted out for life.

In fact...I'm surprised as hell they didn't hand you a bottle of Jack Daniels and tell you to get the fuck out and never come back.

if flirting would get me kicked out of AA, what does sleeping with the newcomer aka 13th stepping get you? death by firing squad? i don't know what AA meetings you have been to, but maybe you should go to a few more before you make those kinds of statements...and i said a 12 step meeting, not a 12th step call, if that is what you were concerned about..

quote:

If she isn't aware of what she's doing...then I'm entirely satisfied that her Dom chastised her. Apparently it didn't take, or she wouldn't have written her original post.

as addressed by cherry, i am not having any problems not flirting at meetings, i was looking at the acceptability of flirting in general...single men are trolls, single women are valuable treasures, taken submissives should focus all their attention on their dominants, taken dominants can give to more than one submissive...but at the same time, that is reenforcing the dominance structure, that there has to be a single point of authority or else shit goes squirly...nothing to do with my actions at a meeting...but rather the lifestyle...i just realized how much i flirt while i was at a meeting...

edited to add

quote:

then she deserved a verbal spanking.

She might have gotten emotionally "bruised" by my words.

She made a serious mistake...and yes...I'm quite happy to point it out to her in any way that makes it stick.

you make be unaware of this particular ettiquite, but ask any D-type who has been in a relationship with an s-type...it is not your job to repremand someone else's property...and it didn't do anything for me besides make me think that you were missinformed and missguided...

take care.
chelle

Somehow I suspect I'll be able to get through life without much general loss carrying your utter disdain with me.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/31/2008 4:43:42 PM >

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 5:02:21 PM

chellekitty

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just for clarification...though completely irrelevant to the topic, because this is a bdsm message board, not a 12 step program message board...the conversation went something like this...hi, how's it going? alright, bummed out i will be missing the fight tonight...oh, why's that? my room mates are watching the all-star basket ball thing [continue to talk about sports and possible alternatives, outside of going to sports bars and strip clubs - there was one that he went to regularly that was both that had the fight on, to get to watch the fight, and avoiding replacing drugs with gambling for 20 or so minutes, decided that he just wants things the way he wanted them or nothing at all, as addicts are apt to do and move on to something else...strip clubs...] you know they say you should not have sex for the first year? i could not do without sex...well i did the whole meetings, meditation and masturbation thing, wore out a lot of batteries, occasionally had meaningless sex but it didn't do anything for me, but anyway, i am going back in, good luck with getting to watch your fight and staying out of strip clubs...and that is what i was following up on...

so, yes, if to give advice on staying out of relationships, strip clubs, and going other places and hanging out with other people and doing other things that lead back to the lifestyles and activies that brought us to the rooms is disrespect, please, disrespect me....

take care
chelle

ps. i never said i was in or at a meeting, i just said i knew him through a 12 step program...we do do things together other than meetings....oh and btw, it is NA, not that it matters, but just so you have your facts straight when you talk about me...*eyeroll*

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 5:15:48 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
ps. i never said i was in or at a meeting, i just said i knew him through a 12 step program...we do do things together other than meetings....oh and btw, it is NA, not that it matters, but just so you have your facts straight when you talk about me...*eyeroll*

You're absolutely right.

It doesn't matter.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/31/2008 5:24:06 PM >

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RE: hi, my name is chelle, and i am a flirt... - 3/31/2008 5:26:34 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

anyway...this got me to thinking...is there a level of flirty-ness acceptable for men vs women in this lifestyle?

i know i have my own views on the subject, but i would like to hear from others before i post them...

take care
chelle

i think it's a gender bias more than a dynamic bias....
gender always plays a significant upper role except in glbt contexts......
i don't know if it's possible to entirely 'give up' genderism after all that would be like giving up living in the workld of opposites....
for myself i experience a level of 'flirtiness' to be flavoured aok male and top down...
whereas flirtiness is labelled 'slut' in a bottom up world.....

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 3/31/2008 5:27:58 PM >

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