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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/29/2008 9:38:30 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

i don't understand where people of that age group get their work ethic



problem is they  didn't get one. Times have changed kids are not being rasied by parents, they are being raised by  School TV VideoGames Afterschool Activites Babysitters Gram/Gramps the list goes on. Ki ds with parents that work 12 hours a day or more dont view it as working hard- good work ethic they see it as mom n dad would rather be a work.  



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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/29/2008 10:07:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		          Is this gainful employment with a future, or just a crappy mcjob, Kalista?  Can she be making the same money somewhere else by Thursday?  If she obviously doesn't care, why should you?  Go through the steps and fire her ass.  Why go in?  Call at 8:02.  If she doesn't come to the phone, she doesn't have a job when you get back on Monday.

        A lot of people in their 20's and early thirties have never been though a recession, unless they are from a depressed region.  Jobs have always been easy to find, and as easy to get rid of.  They'll learn eventually.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/29/2008 11:59:28 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
where I work there was  a 12 year hiring freeze and have suddenly almost 600  new younger workers dropped on you,  you can not help but notice the difference, and not in a good way either , and probably the first time I have ever seen senior workers going to managers yelling telling  them to fired the useless a$$es  or  telling manager to keep the worker the hell the way from them, and it was pretty bad to have some 25 year younger big strapping youngster that you are trying to teach your job to have them tell you they can do this or that because it is too difficult or that after 1/2 an hour they are tired need to rest when they are only 1/2 the job, or simply walking away because they don't want to learn that particular job  and not fair that they should have to do it, if we would have done the same when we were hired we would have been fired on the spot. 

The worse part will be my last 3 years before I retire as over 2000 workers will be retiring and will mean a lot of new workers will have to be brought in to be trained up to replace most of the current work force and by then there will likely be a 2 tier wage system and  the new worker will only be making 50% of what the senior is making so if the current attitudes of the new hires  were any example they will not be all the anxious to learn and take over the jobs  and will figure they should only have to do 50% of the work that the senior worker does,  I have a feeling that I will be looking into whether I can retire 2 years earlier inorder to spare myself from having to put up with some of the attitudes. 




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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 1:29:55 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think there is going to be a generational problem with the "children of the entitled generation" in that their parents made sure their kids had everything, all the time because it was a status symbol to the PARENTS that they had everything all the time, leading to a heck of a lot of co-dependency.

As well, we're seeing the first solid and serious blowback of the "Hey I was taught all my life if I work hard and get a degree I'd make a decent living for myself and now I'm stuck in this crap place with these crap managers who have no training on their own" generation...as we get serious into a recession.

Combine that with my generations problems of complete lack of loyalty due to layoffs, no pension plans, no direct rewards for working a decent week...well serious problems all around.

I'm not saying anything is an excuse to be a bad employee- you choose a job to get paid for doing it then you either do it well or you don't.  But we can't look at things in a bubble and expect to solve the problem well.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 1:53:05 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Is she productive? Would you be cutting off your nose to spite your face in the event you sack her?

I'd give her the rope to hang herself, rather than atttempt to control her by watching her closely. Allow her the room to be late on a few occasions, then haul her into the office and find out what is going on.

I'd work on finding out what motivates her.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 1:57:19 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

As well, we're seeing the first solid and serious blowback of the "Hey I was taught all my life if I work hard and get a degree I'd make a decent living for myself and now I'm stuck in this crap place with these crap managers who have no training on their own" generation...as we get serious into a recession.



What? All generations want to achieve and will work hard to achieve. The trick is to find out what motivates an individual and target this soft spot.

From what I can see with my own eyes, the youngsters coming through are as willing and able as earlier generations. Degree or no degree.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 3:09:06 AM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for Your thoughtful and helpful replies...They've given me a lot to think about...Here are some of the answers to (hopefully all of ) Your questions.

Yeah, i understand how in some people's eyes 8 years is not that big of a difference, but trust me.....Most times around her i feel like i'm 87 or so. i gave up the 'partying lifestyle' so long ago and have priorities and what not now....
This young lady has her master's degree in the particular field we work in. In fact, she 'needs me' to be able to get her license because i have to sign off on having done supervision with her. There's plenty of room for growth from this position, both in the agency we work for as well as in the profession as a whole. The examples of her pushing the limits are doing things such as: She had two people she had to meet with.....she didn't do that.....She also has 6 hours per week of a "group" thing she's supposed to lead, not only does she apparently repeatedly blow off those responsibilities onto her peers, but she continues to whine to me how she has the most group hours to do per week. Part of my frustration is the fact that due to her degree she makes more money per year than this other employee who i supervise who only has a bachelor's degree. This employee had 6 people to meet with and 6 1/2 hours of group per week, does her job and never whines or complains about anything..... She's only 2 years older than my problem employee.
i think many of You are right about her upbringing.....Her parents were very upper middle class....She never wanted for anything, in fact she still doesn't. In fact she doesn't have any student loans because her parents paid for her college. And this is her first real job in the career world. i've been really trying recently to focus on the things she does right and not always coming off like this evil ogre......
The problem is she's been working Sundays for the past 5 months or so. In that time she's been on time once. Apparently the sunday following her being given her verbal warning.  If she were 10, 15, hell even 30 minutes late i wouldn't really have an issue with that. (Especially since i'm not a morning person myself) But the reality is apparently many times she's a few hours late or doesn't even come in at all....
i hope i've answered everyones questions,
Kali


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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 3:29:58 AM   
SirRober


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		I would play hard ball with her and tell her the next time she is late she is on a 2 week  vaction with no pay, late again fire her. Also if she brings up the whiney part compare her to the other person. And or have the other person help infulance your "problem child".

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 3:47:07 AM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		60 Minutes ran a segment on this problem last fall. Corporate psychologists around the country are srambling to try to develop workplace action plans to deal with these kids. They come in with full blown senses of 'entitlement' and give a damn attitudes. Many parents even do 'follow ups' with personnel departments to 'assist' their spawns job searches ! Give the little twit a copy of company policies have her read them and SIGN them to indicate she understands her responsibilities. You won't feel so annoyed when you have to drop the axe on her.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:07:11 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
Status: offline 		~~FR~~
I am not sure what your co policy is...x number of write-ups before she is fired? Bide your time...she will ensure this will happen.

As to getting up to see if she is on time...my advice is not to. It will make you resentful.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:11:25 AM   
Gemini1766


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

i thought a generation was technically 20 years, not 8? 
Properly, a generation is 40 years about. I was born on the cusp between the Baby Boomers and "GenX".


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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:18:50 AM   
Gemini1766


Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Well now Kalista, I have a pretty damn good idea what you do.
One of two fields. I'm working on my degree in Psych, and I have my AAS in Human Services.

She needs a kick in the afterburner. Remind her, she needs the job, the job does not need her. She cannot be like this at all. She works with people. She's not on a freaking factory assembly line. Oh, and make it known throughout your work force section, "She is to do her own work, and is not allowed to shrug it off on anyone else." Perhaps the best mentor for her is the one who does the work properly but only has the BS. "Problem Chyld, you may have the advantage in degrees, Masters vs. BS; however, she has the advantage in understanding work ethics and the importance of being on time and good customer service."


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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:24:34 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

In fact, she 'needs me' to be able to get her license because i have to sign off on having done supervision with her.
 


All employees need a good reference of some description from their managers; yet, countless relationships are strained. This factor alone is not sufficient to get the best out of her. 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

but she continues to whine to me how she has the most group hours to do per week.
 


Perhaps she feels she's not getting the respect to which she feels she's entitled. I think you have a case of her not understanding the principle of respect being earned.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Part of my frustration is the fact that due to her degree she makes more money per year than this other employee who i supervise who only has a bachelor's degree.
 


As you state in your post, this girl wants for nothing in the money department. I'd bet a pound to a penny that if you were to increase her salary by £30k, you'd be in the same boat.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

This employee had 6 people to meet with and 6 1/2 hours of group per week, does her job and never whines or complains about anything.....She's only 2 years older than my problem employee.



There you go - age is not the issue, here. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
 
i think many of You are right about her upbringing.....Her parents were very upper middle class....She never wanted for anything, in fact she still doesn't. In fact she doesn't have any student loans because her parents paid for her college.


 
Perhaps it is her upbringing, but I don't think it's a result of being "very upper middle class". I'd say it's more a case that her parents haven't instilled in her the principle of respect being earned. 'Nothing whatsoever to do with class.
 
You obviously have a difficult employee on your hands, but I think 99% of managers will have come across someone with a similar attitude. Carrot or stick? Both. In my experience, the issue may not be as difficult to resolve as it seems at first light.
 
If I were in your shoes......

You can't afford to "focus only on what she is doing right". You have to be clear as to what you expect from her. You can't allow her to walk all over procedure, of course, because other staff will doubt your position of authority. Nevertheless, I'd estimate that laying down the law will not be sufficient; yes, she'll probably buckle and follow procedure, but you won't get the best out of her. Assuming she doesn't have the experience in a respect being earned environment, she needs more than "you have to show me what you can do in order to get your reference". Some people in life need an arm 'round their shoulder and a pat on the back to tell them how good they are - a big ego, I suppose - I think your employee falls into this category. 
 
I'd start by having an informal chat with her over a tea or coffee. Make it clear that you like her as a person, that you think she's got a lot to offer the organisation, and that the two of you could work well together/achieve a great deal together; but, be firm in that you and the organisation have expectations and procedure for a very good reason: expectations that benefit the organisation and the individual/her. I'd spell out that you're the person to meet her needs, but neither you nor the organisation can accept her being late from this point on.
 
In public, treat her like everyone else in the office - respectful, fair, firm. In private, praise her, take an interest in her, make it clear that you understand her; but make sure you drum home the expectations.
 
At all costs, do not allow class prejudice or age to dictate your actions. Treat her as a person who needs the right buttons pressing - just like everyone else.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:28:54 AM   
XianDominSJ


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		Kali,

I’m a managerial candidate working in the IT division of a 100,000+ employee company. The recent mandate is 60% of new hires must be entry level fresh-outta-college kids.  It’s been an eye opener for sure.  Your perception of our Gen X group vs. the Gen Y kids (or “millenials” if they’re really young) are not unfounded.  Friends my age (35) talk about just how much adolescence has been extended into adulthood; with the average 25 year old acting more like 15.  There is a huge difference between the 25 year old of today from the 25 year old of just 10 or 15 years ago.

So it’s not just you, Kali, that’s seeing this recent trend in the next generation of workers.  Last April the Wall Street Journal did an article called “The Most-Praised Generation Goes to Work: Uber-stroked kids are reaching adulthood -- and now their bosses (and spouses) have to deal with them.”  The Dallas Morning News did a two-part series addressing exactly the work ethic you’ve seen: “Millennials need to get real about work world”   The biggest issue is actually inter-personal; with thin-skinned, over-praised, over-protected “kidults” who shrivel at the mere hint of criticism.  The second issue is work ethic; with the millenials expecting the corporate equivalent of a gold star just for walking in the door in the morning. Finally, they demonstrate the lowest tenacity of any group we’ve ever seen; viewing the common business environment obstacles and ambiguities as unfair.  The new trend?  Parents (admittedly, mostly moms) calling managers to discuss their kid’s reviews, raises or other personnel matters.  Yes, really.  My step-mother is a dean at her college and she confirms that these behaviors have reached epidemic levels in college, too.

The bottom line is this: You’re in a place of business, not group therapy.  Whether or not the kids experienced real boundaries and consequences in the 25 years prior to joining, you need to enforce them clearly and without apology now.  One thing we tend to do when handling these types of employees is to focus too much on the one employee, often forgetting how unprecedented leniency and coddling will play out in front of the rest of the employees. “Yeah, but there are reasons why…” Stop. It doesn’t matter, and even if it did, you couldn’t explain those “reasons” (i.e. for lax enforcement) to the rest of the employees who will soon wonder why young employees get to flout work rules like chores at home.

Finally, in spite of the histrionics (pouting, sighs, etc.) and pleading, most young employees will respect you and appreciate the boundaries and consequences. They’ll see they’re being treated like the full-fledged members of adult society and they’ll appreciate it.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:44:44 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Kali,
i had an employee that was consistently late.  i spoke with her casually about it-it was 3 or 4 minutes here and there.  i agree with the on time is late thing, as be late for one formation in the army and you will always thereafter give your self some cushion time to get to work.   fukn pushups and being called a female maggot leaves an impression-lol

anyhow, the last time she was late, i called her in my office and asked her if maybe making her arrival time and time to get off 15 or 30 minutes later would help her.  that was doable because of how our schedule is, and i was taught to always try to offer a solution when you corrected a problem, be it additional training or whatever.

she bagan screaming at me that she did not need me on her ass all the time-she was doing the best she could on and on.  inside i was laughing but i remained in my manager role on the outside.  one great thing my mentor taught me was to always be able to recognize when someone is going off on you and it has nothing to do with what you are telling them.  it works better than picturing them in underwears i swear.

well she got news that same day from me that she had failed a test necessary for her to remain in her position and she would have to retake the classes on her own time and pass the test or be terminated.   she never came back to work. 

turned out she had mega things going on in her personal life-the night before the last morning her son had been arrested for murder and she had spent the night in the jail trying to get him out and had been unable to.  had she told me this that morning instead of going off on me, i would have insisted she take a personal day and go home and rest.  but she didnt.

all that leads me to the following.....do your job and try to offer solutions and help in any way you can, whether you like the person or not.  but sometimes, folks dont care and are going to self destruct no matter what you do.  being consistently late is unfair to everyone else who makes it on time, and you can bet there will be resentment from them.  if she makes the choice to not improve, she should be gone.  period.

good luck......aint management funsome days?

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 4:58:43 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mefisto69

60 Minutes ran a segment on this problem last fall. Corporate psychologists around the country are srambling to try to develop workplace action plans to deal with these kids. They come in with full blown senses of 'entitlement' and give a damn attitudes. Many parents even do 'follow ups' with personnel departments to 'assist' their spawns job searches ! Give the little twit a copy of company policies have her read them and SIGN them to indicate she understands her responsibilities. You won't feel so annoyed when you have to drop the axe on her.


A link to the 60 Minutes story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml

Kali, as has been said, I'd sit her down, and very clearly tell her what she's doing wrong, and give her an ultimatum. Either she does what she needs to and stays, or she fucks up and loses her job. It's on  her.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 5:07:26 AM   
Gemini1766


Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: XianDominSJ

The bottom line is this: You’re in a place of business, not group therapy.
Careful with that assessment. From what I read, and what I know, that's quite likely part of what her job is.


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"Strangers do not owe strangers anything, beyond an obeisance to the laws mutual conduct as dictated by the land in which they live. Anything else is negotiable." puella

"TwistedKinkerBell's online male companion of a nearly intimate nature."

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 5:27:09 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		If it were me in your shoes, I would sit down with her, nicely spell out all of your expectations for the position....not "her"....the position.  Read it to her out of the employee manual or job description of you have to.  Then tell her if she fails to meet these expectations, she will be written up, and, after a certain number of write-ups, will be canned.  Hold her to the same expectations that you would hold any other employee.

If she comes from a life of privilege, it's possible that no one has ever made her toe the line, has made excuses for her, has enabled her to be the way she is.  In the long run, you would be doing her a favor by helping her to grow up and realize that it's not all about her and that she has to toe the line just like every other working person.  You don't owe her any special treatment or consideration just because she might have problems and issues elsewhere in her bringing up.  Within reason, of course.....I mean, if you give her the help and suggestions and consideration and her behavior amd personal growth improves, then it's a good thing.  But if you're constantly battling with her and she ignores your suggestions and criticism, and only makes excuses for her own bad behavior, then letting her go, if only to teach her a lesson is really the best way to go.

Don't forget....you have other employees who deserve fairness in the workplace, and that one bad seed can really drag a workplace down if it is allowed to continue.   

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 5:45:14 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		It has been my managment style to praise in public and chastise in private.  i've found it to work well to keep people motivated and to learn they can trust me to not just throw them under the bus.

i'm now dealing with a similar situation only my troubled employee is not a generation Y person at all.  my employee feels like her job, that she asked for, is beneath her.  i've explained very clearly that her current position is a stepping stone that pretty much everyone goes through.  She is a temp-to-hire so you'd think she would be willing to prove herself.  In a private meeting i told her that how can i go to my Director and ask for an increase in head-count to bring her on as permanent if i don't have the production to show how valuable she is?  She shows up late, logs onto the computer then goes off to get coffee and breakfast and chat with friends and is often physically in the office a full hour before starting any actual work.  This woman is in her thirties.  On friday i sat her down and told her frankly that my goal is to see each and every one of my employees fulfilled in their jobs.  i told her that my sense is that she is not happy to be at work.  If she were happy to be there she would come to work on time and be ready to begin work when she got there.  I told her if she is not happy then she really needs to be doing something else and i do not want this job to stand in her way of personal fulfillment.  While she promised she did want this job and is willing to do it, almost immediately after the meeting she was right back to her bad habits.

The truth is, when people love their jobs they show up on time or early, they don't have an internal bell that goes off at 5 to 5... they aren't rushing out the door or taking extended lunches.  Terminating an employment can often be the kindest thing a manager can do.

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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 5:52:02 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		the fact that you have mandated that you will write her up again in the future and she will be suspended--says is all about you--
 
you do not see that she can change, you are not involved in her development--she is poof to you---your mind is made up--as soon as you start to class someone in a class,  you class someone in a class.
 
your profile professes a mind of your own--perhaps you need to expand that--to the person, not the class.
 
 

< Message edited by LadyHathor -- 3/30/2008 5:53:02 AM >

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