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RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 5:59:29 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemini1766

quote:

ORIGINAL: XianDominSJ

The bottom line is this: You’re in a place of business, not group therapy.
Careful with that assessment. From what I read, and what I know, that's quite likely part of what her job is.



Agreed. Enforce the law by all means, but remember that there's far more to being a manager than adherence to procedure. You have to learn how to get the best out of your staff, and this requires a certain amount of understanding the individual.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 6:05:28 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ok-  there is little mention of a job description.  A written one.  Sit down with her- read it line per line.  If this is not her type of job, then best for both to part.

I too was once 25.   This age is the group we will pass the torch onto. A scarey thought.  But the beauty is that just maybe THAT is the generation that will fix this world.  Never say never.

Some jobs it is easier to measure.

Being a call center. EVERYTHING can be tracted.  The number dialed in/out the length the length of the call, and with pin sized cameras around for corporate espeinage-  every work station could be presumed to be on cam, and tape.

Anytime I had a problem-  we got out the written job description. And went down line per line. Discussed it- where my strengths AND weaknesses are.

One thing to remember- 25 year olds- can talk to 25 year olds.  Their own dialect.  Thus influencing % of profits.

--Be sure her file is well documented.   This due to any claim  that may ensue.

(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 6:13:17 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Free advice ... which may be an indication of it's value.
 
First, get rid of your thoughts on her "generation." That is not helping you, or her, or anyone else. Then, get rid of your thoughts on her upbringing. That is not helping you, or her, or anyone else. Your issues is with this girl, not her generation, or her social standing.
 
Somewhere, there must be some company policy concerning being on time. If not, you must be at a small company ... so just make some. Get someone in authority (which may actually be you) to circulate this to everyone working there, or in your department, or whatever ... the point being, don't single her out, other than in her own mind.
 
If she still can't be on time, call her into your office and have two things on your desk ... then letter you circulated, and her last paycheck. And don't fret ... some people can't get out of their own way, and only learn to come in out of the rain when they catch cold.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 3/30/2008 6:18:33 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 6:17:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

It has been my managment style to praise in public and chastise in private. 



In my experience, chastising in private will get through to about 75% of people. It won't work with the big egos, though - particularly the ones who know their worth to the organisation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

She shows up late, logs onto the computer then goes off to get coffee and breakfast and chat with friends and is often physically in the office a full hour before starting any actual work. 



Now that is unacceptable in any circumstances. I have never worked for an organisation that would allow that - regardless of whether the employee regularly wins the employee of the millenium award. Presumably, she's contributing to your company, so for that one hour when she's not working, who steps in for her to ensure the company's output is maintained to expected standards? 

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 6:39:02 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Early is on-time.

On-time is late.

Late is as bad as being absent.


farglebargle:
The above might be true for slaves but for free labor I hardly think so.
Do we get paid for being early?
Your statement that being late is the same as being absent...that would imply that if a person was one minute late and worked all their shift except that one minute that they ought not to be paid for the day at all since by your definition they were absent.
The employer IS NOT doing the employee a favor by giving them a job.  The employee IS doing the employer a favor by selling them a needed commodity.
thompson




(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 6:41:21 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

First, get rid of your thoughts on her "generation." That is not helping you, or her, or anyone else. Then, get rid of your thoughts on her upbringing. That is not helping you, or her, or anyone else. Your issues is with this girl, not her generation, or her social standing.
 


As free advice goes.....it ain't bad at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Somewhere, there must be some company policy concerning being on time. If not, you must be at a small company ... so just make some. Get someone in authority (which may actually be you) to circulate this to everyone working there, or in your department, or whatever ... the point being, don't single her out, other than in her own mind.
 


Not so sure about this sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Have an informal chat with the girl....find out what she's all about. As per usual with most lasses, you can bet your life that the issue isn't the one she's presenting to you, and a spot of understanding will go a long way to bringing her 'round.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
 
If she still can't be on time, call her into your office and have two things on your desk ... then letter you circulated, and her last paycheck. And don't fret ... some people can't get out of their own way, and only learn to come in out of the rain when they catch cold.



Wooahhhh, hold up a minute.

It will cost you time and money to sack her and replace her. Plus, there's no guarantees with the next person. Short-termism is exactly what a businessman/woman doesn't need in the management armoury. I dunno.....you headstrong, young lasses are a law unto yourselves.

You have to bear in mind what you're trying to achieve here and that's an employee who comes up with the goods for you, and there's far more to the goods than an employee who turns up on time and doesn't say boo to a goose.

Have a chat with her....do what it takes to bring her 'round without compromising your authority with the other staff.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 7:04:09 AM   
SirRober


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		It looks like almost everyone agrees that she needs to have a talking to but if she doesn't step up the show her some tough love and fire her. It would be better for all around.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 8:06:00 AM   
ShareMyDream


Posts: 38
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline 		I'm concerned that we started with generation X and after generation Z we'll have to start using Excel cell format to describe each generation that thinks it is any different from the last. Not much forward planning went into this system of describing generations with letters methinks. If anyone had a brain they'd have started with generation A. 

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 8:24:02 AM   
SirRober


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		Nah it would probally be the gen that welfare forgot......

(in reply to ShareMyDream)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 8:46:04 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirRober

Nah it would probally be the gen that welfare forgot......



      More like the generation that welfare created.

_____________________________

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 8:51:54 AM   
Kalista07


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Joined: 7/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor
the fact that you have mandated that you will write her up again in the future and she will be suspended--says is all about you--
you do not see that she can change, you are not involved in her development--she is poof to you---your mind is made up--as soon as you start to class someone in a class,  you class someone in a class.
your profile professes a mind of your own--perhaps you need to expand that--to the person, not the class.



LadyH,
i must respectfully disagree with Your assessment here... The fact that i have outlined what will happen next is hopefully an attempt to be able to convey to her how important this written write up was....   i do actually see that she has the potential to change, which is were i'm really struggling because i've been unable to reach her.....She's been warned and talked to about this type of behavior before, i've done supervision with her in which it was very difficult because she was so arrogant that she could not recognize that she has any area that might need some growth.....
i brought up the class issue and the generation issue because truthfully, i worry that those will be barriers in my ability to reach her...........
The reality is in all actuality, if i want this more for her than she wants it fo herself my attempts will most likely be futile.
Kali


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 9:50:03 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Dock her pay and write her up every time she's late.
And start interviewing replacements. Mention this to others, she'll hear about it soon enough. At that point, she'll either do what she has to do or you'll know she doesn't want this career.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 10:39:43 AM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Early is on-time.

On-time is late.

Late is as bad as being absent.


farglebargle:
The above might be true for slaves but for free labor I hardly think so.
Do we get paid for being early?


You get paid from the moment the job starts to the moment the job ends.

Being IN PLACE and ready to begin when the whistle blows is YOUR responsibility.

You're not paid for the time it takes to commute to the gig, are you?

quote:


Your statement that being late is the same as being absent...that would imply that if a person was one minute late and worked all their shift except that one minute that they ought not to be paid for the day at all since by your definition they were absent.


Actually, they should just be fired. If you're told the job starts at 9, it's your responsibility to be there sufficiently before 9, so that you are able to begin AT 9. Think of it like a scheduled meeting. Do you arrive *exactly* at the appointed time?

Of course not -- and that's my point.

Now, do I think, in practice people should be cut from the team for missing a single bus, once? Of course not. But if it's a common occurrence? Damn right that loser's out the door.

It's not about a lack-of-respect for your employer, it's about a lack-of-respect for your COWORKERS. If you can't be TRUSTED to support THEIR efforts by showing up on-time, then you can't be trusted -- period.

e.g.: I'm doing a project where the scheduled time is "flex-time". There are no scheduled hours. I chose to consistently begin at 8:45. I'm IN THE DOOR about 8:30. AT 8:45, the PC is booted, I've got a fresh cup of coffee, my coat is hanging in the closet, and I'm ready to go.





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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 10:57:46 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

The employer IS NOT doing the employee a favor by giving them a job.  The employee IS doing the employer a favor by selling them a needed commodity.
thompson



       True enough, Thom, if you choose to look at it that way, but doesn't that place just as much of a burden on the employee to be selling a quality product?  Works great if you have a mighty rare set of skills, notso-hotso if there are 40 people standing outside waiting to sell the same thing.

       It isn't just a generational thing.  I tend to not worry so much about the times when jobs are scarce.  I won't be waiting around for new ones to be created, I'll just go take a job away from someone who thinks their sweat is champagne.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 12:28:13 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		She is probaly eating chocolate from the snack box where you leave $1. 



(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 12:59:37 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline 		Without seeing the full story or knowing more about the work context, it's hard for me to offer an objective opinion on this one.

My context for how to deal with people is almost always thus:

- What do they bring to the table?

- What do they take off the table?

- How do they fit with the other people on the team?

- How difficult would they be to replace?

Looking at those four things gives me a pretty good snapshot of where someone will stand currently.  Likewise, I try to consider if their strengths can be improved or their weaknesses mitigated, and run from there.

My take on how to handle it would be thus, assuming you have a real disciplinary issue and that this is not personal bias, and likewise, that you work in a pretty typical basic corporate environment in an industry with average or so talent requirements:

Make very clear to her what your expectations are and what you want from her.  Don't do this in a formal disciplinary way yet.  Take her aside and state what you expect out of her, and that you expect her to measure up to them.  Just as importantly, make clear these are the same standards you hold everyone else to, and that she needs to get onboard right now, if not sooner.  

These are the same standards you hold everyone else to, right...?  If not, I suggest there are bigger problems.

Then, if she starts to shape up, give her positive reinforcement on the good stuff while continuing to push her to do better.  You will have to find the balance with regard to how she can handle things, as everyone is different here.  However, a combination of punishment for failure and reward for success almost always works best in terms of incentives.

If she doesn't get her act together, then you go the formal route and start down whatever the HR disciplinary thing is where you work.  Be firm and resolute about that as well; accept no excuses, do not cater to weakness.

Basically, draw the line and make her cross it, and if she won't, can her.

Also, to everyone complaining about the generational work ethic, back when I was working on my undergrad degree, I remember reading ancient greek and roman literature about how young people had no work ethic, that they were lazy / ruining society / etc and so on.  So either the world is getting worse by leaps and bounds with every generation and has been for thousands of years, or maybe it's something that should be taken with a grain of salt...

Ahem.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 1:25:22 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		The scary bit of this is the profession that you are in, Kali.  What kind of image is this woman projecting to her clients?  Is she a good "face" for your agency? 

As a former teacher,  I do tend to toss out the "generation" term, and there HAS, at least here in these United States, been a drastic change in how children are taught and raised.  There is a greater gap between the have and have-not groups (because this is a classless society, oh yeah) and sadly both sets seem to be solidly locked into the culture of entitlement.  Is this true of everyone?  Of course not.  But it is true of MANY, and this kind of behavior is too commonplace. 

I have clients who describe their children to me, and say that they did too much for them, and now they can't do anything for themselves.  Well....I say it's not too late for them, but someone has to issue the wake-up call.   This is a tough world, and it's getting tougher.  How is anyone to know what their true performance is if no one is willing to offer the right kind of criticism?



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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 1:43:54 PM   
darklachrymosa


Posts: 7
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		There's actually some really interesting and pertinent GenY traits that current management should pay attention to.  One of the first of these that causes no end of frustration to Gen X and older management is that we tend to work to live instead of following the previous generations tendencies to live to work.  What this means is that we work to support our desired lifestyle, and to an overwhelming majority this means the freedom and flexibility to pursue our interests outside of work.  Previous generations have tended to structure their private lives around work schedules.  Japan is facing a trend that involves younger workers gravitating towards temporary or contract positions because it allows this level of flexibility, a phenomenon that goes completely against traditional labor customs.  The prevalence of this type of thinking is a major contributor to the 'flex time' concept.

Many 25 years olds are certainly immature and arrogant.  Then again, so are many 45 year olds.  I will say that GenYers are characterized by a certain degree of entitlement, whether deserved or not.  We as a generation have grown up with the world at our fingertips; internet, cell phones, video games, and if that wasn't enough, we've had education adjusted to pander to our self esteem in the form of the No Child Left Behind Act, or schools that issue pass/fail instead of letter grades to prevent kids from feeling bad about ourselves.  For many, entering the workforce will ans has come as an unpleasant jolt.  Where we've become accustomed to the world shifting to accomodate our preferences, suddenly that doesn't work anymore.  This can definitely cause some problems.  Compounding this is GenYers desire to be involved on all levels of decision making processes.  We've been raised to work in teams as opposed to the indivualistic advancement that characterized GenX.  We reject hierarchical forms of management based on seniority and typically want to see the person best suited for the job in it, not the one with the greatest tenure.

however, it's not particularly desirable for any organization to alienate the younger generation.  The capacity for innovation is vital for any business to remain competitive in a rapidly expanding global marketplace, and to do this, you perspectives with fresh ideas are necessary.

I wasn't able to gather from your post what exactly it is that she's doing wrong.  Maybe a later thread explained in detail.  But attitudes are subjective things, and where you see a bad attitude another may see something completely different.  If your complaint is absenteeism or tardiness, you've got a valid issue, but proving insubordination can be difficult, and firing someone for a 'bad attitude' sets you up to pay unemployment or worse, face a discrimination lawsuit which, even if lost, means negative publicity.

If you find that she pushes at your management skills, perhaps it would be advisable to take a closer look at your management skills and see if they could be better.  There's multiple resources available that offer indepth studies of GenY characteristics and how to best ....manipulate them to serve your advantage.

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 1:45:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

(because this is a classless society, oh yeah)



     Nonsense.  It's a society with class mobility.  A lot of these spoiled twenty-nothings who grew up comfortably upper middle-class will figure that out when the laziness takes them down a notch or three.

     Seems like the longer it takes them to learn that lesson, the more painful the process.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Generation Y employees? - 3/30/2008 3:10:06 PM   
caitlyn


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Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Have a chat with her....do what it takes to bring her 'round without compromising your authority with the other staff.

You are probably right here ... keeping in mind that my opinion is maybe the very best available from someone that has never had a paying job, and who can honestly say that being late isn't among my many faults.
 
I was kind of going on the assumption that she's already done the, "have a chat" thing. That may have been an error on my part.
 
My big problem is that I save my pity for homeless people, abused people, the hungry, the displaced, etc ... and have very little for people that can't effectively use a watch.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 3/30/2008 3:11:11 PM >

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 60
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