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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


When government diktat replaces individual liberty, suffering increases. That is the lesson of history.

However, you are quite correct to point out the distinction between a Stalin or a Mao and Obama--the first two had both the brains and strength of character to do real damage. The foolishness of Obama's ideas is mitigated by his flimsy, facile, nature. His ultimate outcome is to be more of a joke President a la Jimmy Carter.

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In reality, BUSH is a military imperialist, but in propaganda terms he's "leading the free world in a fight against terrorism."

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ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967

I don't know what obama will or won't do but my God do you want more of the same or someone who will atleast try!

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A lot of voters have made up their minds who they're going to vote for ages ago. This is why they leap at the smallest occasion that will allow them to bash at Obama. It comforts them in their knowledge that they've made the right decision.

It's sad, because nobody is fooled by the spectacle they offer, except, perhaps, themselves?

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

"I" can state that "we want," but without support and justification that statement is inherently suspect, whereas the similar individual statement "I want" is not.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Thus, individual liberty is necessarily more definitive than any collective good.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I merely reject one of those ideas.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

No doubt that attempt will be made.  Such is the nature of debate.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Ideas spawned the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution.

Ideas spawned the world's great religions.

Ideas can lead to war.

"Simply ideas"?  There are no such things.  Ideas are the foundations for all that we choose, and thus all that we do.   If our ideas are wrong, our choices will be wrong, and our actions will be wrong. 

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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It's sad, because nobody is fooled by the spectacle they offer, except, perhaps, themselves?

So being fooled by the Obama spectacle is better than being fooled by the McCain spectacle?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

is there such a thing as a human nature?

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
The republican party started to take some turns against these fundamentals a long while back, and is why I became an independent. I can actually vote for a politician that I disagree with a few of his programs, if I see and believe that the politician has some integrity.

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ORIGINAL: Shekicromaster

That is an rather interesting trait, wherever you look political forces are slowly moving more towards the centre.  

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol
It looks to me like political forces are fast moving more towards the right, and not just in America, but perhaps it's because I have slight astigmatism .

Also, this election could well prove me wrong: I hope I'm wrong.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

I could give you my opinion on coarse fishing but since I know nothing about it, it would be foolish to do so.  All he has to do is write why he holds his views - and isn't that what these boards are about, too?

Why do I hold these views?

Simple. 

I believe in individual liberty. 
I believe, to paraphrase Ben Franklin, that trading liberty for safety results in neither.
I believe that relying on someone else to bail me out when I screw up weakens me.
I believe that the excesses of the Reign of Terror (French Revolution), Stalin's famines,  Mao's Cultural Revolution, among others, are the inevitable result when individual liberty is sacrificed in the name of some ill-defined collective "good".
I believe that surrendering personal liberty is the same as surrendering humanity.

I have come to believe this because too often I have seen good people broken for the sake of some collective good.  I have seen good colleagues laid off with the flimsy justification that they would be better able to find new employment than others--they were sacrificed not for any shortcoming of theirs, but to compensate for the shortcomings of others.  I have been harassed by police because I seemed "out of place", either because of my manner of dress or my mode of transportation.

For all your gyrations and straw man arguments, you cannot evade the simple reality that socialism necessarily invalidates individual thought and individual expression.  The statement "I want" is deemed pathetic and inadequate to the socialist, because individual wants are derogated in favor of some illusory collective "want".

Obama and Clinton believe that individual effort matters not, individual want matters not, that we are dependent upon the munificence of "society" for all bounty in our lives.  Their policies and policy statements reflect this.  They forgive the insolvent mortgage holder for not managing their finances more astutely, and villify the banker who did business with said mortgage holder.  They believe my money should be used to pay for another person's healthcare, even as they would restrict my own power to choose what is best for my health and well being.

Yes, socialist thinking, being as it is dehumanizing thinking, is evil.  It is more than sufficient to disqualify both Obama and Clinton from any position of leadership.  Quite frankly, they are not even competent to sit in the Senate, but that judgement is left to the voters they pretend to care about.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

You bet we brag about the Millitary Commisions Act.  It did not suspend the right of Habeas Corpus to a single American Citizen, under any circumstance, nor does it apply to anyone facing criminal charges, even Aliens.  It is great, you are demanding to expose our agents, and let dangerous terrorists go free. 

Habeas Corpus has never applied to combatants, It applies to civil prosecution.  The idea that people caught on the battlefield have been arrested and must be individually proved to have committed a crime is brand new, and stupid.  It is not part of our traditions going back to 1066.  It is a new idea cooked up by the Left.  And it has nothing to do with the bill of rights.

Just read your own link,

"Specifically, the Act states, "No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination."
Importantly, the Military Commissions Act does not affect the hundreds of writs for habeas corpus already filed in federal civilian courts on behalf of persons held by the U.S.as unlawful enemy combatants. The Act only suspends the accused person's right to present writs of habeas corpus until after their trial before the military commission has been completed. As explained in a White House Fact Sheet on the Act, "... our courts should not be misused to hear all manner of other challenges by terrorists lawfully held as enemy combatants in wartime." "

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In the story, Clinton describes a woman from rural Ohio who was making minimum wage at a local pizza shop. The woman, who was uninsured, became pregnant.

Clinton said the woman ran into trouble and went to a hospital in a nearby county but was denied treatment because she couldn't afford a $100 payment.

In her speeches, Clinton said the woman later was taken to the hospital by ambulance and lost the baby. The young woman was then taken by helicopter to a Columbus hospital where she died of complications. "It is so wrong, in this good, great and rich country, that a young woman and her baby would die because she didn't have health insurance or a hundred dollars to get examined," she said.
Watch why the story is raising questions » 

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While Clinton never named the hospital in her speech, the woman she was referring to was treated at O'Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. The hospital said the woman did indeed have insurance, and, at least at their hospital, she was never turned away.

Hospital Chief Executive Officer Rick Castrop in a statement said, "we reviewed the medical and patient accounts of the patient" after she was named in a newspaper story about Clinton's stump speech.

"There is no indication that she was ever denied medical care at any time, for any reason. We clearly reject any perception that we ever denied any care to this woman."
A hospital spokesperson confirmed to CNN the woman had insurance. She said the hospital decided to come forward after people in the community began to question if they had denied her care.

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Clinton's speech accurately reflects what she was told that day, but the campaign admits they were not able to confirm the account.

Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee said, "She had no reason to doubt his word."

"Candidates are told stories by people all the time, and it's common for candidates to retell those stories. It's not always possible to fully vet them, but we try. For example, medical records are confidential. In this case, we tried but weren't able to fully vet the story," he said.

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"If the hospital claims it didn't happen that way, we certainly respect that, and she won't repeat the story."

"She never mentions the hospital by name and isn't trying to cast blame. She tells this story because it illustrates the point that we have a very serious health care problem in America. That's a point very few people will dispute."