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"Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 6:58:56 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

While lobbying for his endorsement, Hillary Rodham Clinton flatly told New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson that Barack Obama could not win the presidency if he got the Democratic nomination. Source: http://www.nypost.com/seven/04032008/news/nationalnews/baracks_a_lost_cause__hill_104814.htm 


Do you agree with her?

Wonder if she'll be campaigning for the Republicans as much AFTER the Denver convention? Of course it could serve to mobilize. However the shots and attacks coming from inside his party will be nothing compared to what his campaign will encounter once he is the nominee. Senator scorched earth approach to the primary will play right into November with her and President Clinton as key spokesman for Senator McCain.

It makes you wonder if Senator and President Clinton's political machine knows more will come out? Her approach at this stage of the campaign displays incredible arrogance. It goes to show how crazy people get when you take away something they feel entitled to. People seem to to miss-read that part of the Declaration of Independence, or at least leave off a word. The "inalienable rights" are; "Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness." Happiness itself isn't an entitlement; not yet at least.
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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 7:16:43 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		right then.

I  am am working a phone  bank for the election here in PA.  What I sense right now, is that McCain will win.   I might add, after the general election,  a co-worker believes a draft will occur.   As to the PA primary- it is a dog fight.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 8:45:23 AM   
Gemini1766


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

right then.

I  am am working a phone  bank for the election here in PA.  What I sense right now, is that McCain will win.   I might add, after the general election,  a co-worker believes a draft will occur.   As to the PA primary- it is a dog fight.

The draft should be required anytime we go to war. Not a 90 day action which the President can do without Congressional approvial, but declared war. There would be so much more uproar against our being in Iraq if the draft were in place.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 1:11:21 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		No this is just rhetoric from a candidate who is behind.

Poll just came out yesterday that showed both Democrats and even in a greater percentage Republicans who believe Obama is a more likely to win the general election then Clinton. That is of course subjective as Clinton is hated by so many people that it is not tough to win that type of poll.

Also all the polls are showing that the issues with Obama’s reverend has not hurt him but we are in a slow time for election coverage so they stay stuck on the last juiciest story. Obama will get killed by attack ads just like any Democratic candidate. We do not know how he will react and that might very well be the key to him winning. He cannot be another Gore and Kerry wimp and just sit there and take it.


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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 1:50:26 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Obama is too much of a radical. He sure as hell doesnt represent my views.

I feel Obama will move the country in a dangerous direction towards socialism and government control of economic matters. I know this may sound cold but banks and borrowers need to hurt a little. Banks made very stupid lending decisions and borrowers took out loans they had no ability to pay back. Point fingers all you want, but the bank offered the loan and the borrower signed the mortgage. No one was forced to sign a mortgage. The way out of the mortgage crisis is for banks to fall and for people to lose their homes. Eventually the market will correct itself.

War? I dont even care about war in this Presidential election because I dont believe the president has the ability to alter our foreign policy. Not when the United States must import 12 million barrels of oil per day just for our economy to keep running. We made our bed, now we have to lay in it. We should have had an energy plan 30 years ago.....instead our federal government (both political parties) have failed the people.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 1:53:36 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I feel Obama will move the country in a dangerous direction towards socialism and government control of economic matters.



I just had an orgasm at the thought  . Heaven.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 1:54:58 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611



War? I dont even care about war in this Presidential election because I dont believe the president has the ability to alter our foreign policy.



One of your most brilliant statements to date....Why does anyone place value on your musings?


Our foriegn policy...Has Pres. Bush directly been able to single handedly alter it? When you answer that question you will begin to see why your posts so often lack insight.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:03:26 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I feel Obama will move the country in a dangerous direction towards socialism and government control of economic matters. I know this may sound cold but banks and borrowers need to hurt a little. Banks made very stupid lending decisions and borrowers took out loans they had no ability to pay back. Point fingers all you want, but the bank offered the loan and the borrower signed the mortgage. No one was forced to sign a mortgage. The way out of the mortgage crisis is for banks to fall and for people to lose their homes. Eventually the market will correct itself.



cyberdude, get a reality check, what caused the credit crunch was greed, bankers regulating themselves, writing their own checks and setting their own salaries and bonuses. You seem to despise social justice for the poor but you seem to advocate social welfare for the rich. Until the bankers are made to face the same reality as the poor, it will only be a matter of time before we hit another crisis. Though the bankers know, if they creata a debt so large, the government will bail them out and the rest of society picks up the tab. The owners of the Hedge funds have made billions over the last ten years without any real growth in the economy and you still have fucking faith in them. Why do you think the US is in the shit because the poor can't pay for their mortgages? Grow up and use your brain.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:13:52 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611



War? I dont even care about war in this Presidential election because I dont believe the president has the ability to alter our foreign policy.



One of your most brilliant statements to date....Why does anyone place value on your musings?


Our foriegn policy...Has Pres. Bush directly been able to single handedly alter it? When you answer that question you will begin to see why your posts so often lack insight.


Our foreign policy has essentially been unchanged for nearly 50 years....We support Israel no matter what. We are policing the world in areas that benefit our national interests. And we are still playing as if we are fighting the cold war.

What exactly has Bush done that is different? Invaded a country? JFK did it..twice. LBJ did it. Reagan did it. Clinton did it (a few times). Where is it that Bush changed our foreign policy...please explain....

Clinton went to war against Serbia in 1998, why?? To stop Slobodan Milosevic from killing 2,000 people? Give me a break.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:14:17 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

what caused the credit crunch was greed, bankers regulating themselves, writing their own checks and setting their own salaries and bonuses. You seem to despise social justice for the poor but you seem to advocate social welfare for the rich. Until the bankers are made to face the same reality as the poor, it will only be a matter of time before we hit another crisis. Though the bankers know, if they create a debt so large, the government will bail them out and the rest of society picks up the tab. The owners of the Hedge funds have made billions over the last ten years without any real growth in the economy and you still have fucking faith in them. Why do you think the US is in the shit because the poor can't pay for their mortgages?


MC, Who will a bail out most. The individuals who bought a house they couldn't afford or the Banks that granted the loans? The percentage of fools who bought beyond their means is very small. Its a tragedy in the micro for them, but as a population sample in the macro, it is very small. Also, consider that to qualify and be a mortgaged home owner usually disqualifies you from being considered poor.

Now contrast that with Banking institutions who will be granted millions if not billions in government assistance as part of this bail out. I've never know you to ever support government welfare for corporations. Why do you do so in this case? The bail out comes at the expense of the poor as well as those who purchased a house and got a mortgage within their means. You support taking tax money from them and giving it to the banking institutions?

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:18:57 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I feel Obama will move the country in a dangerous direction towards socialism and government control of economic matters. I know this may sound cold but banks and borrowers need to hurt a little. Banks made very stupid lending decisions and borrowers took out loans they had no ability to pay back. Point fingers all you want, but the bank offered the loan and the borrower signed the mortgage. No one was forced to sign a mortgage. The way out of the mortgage crisis is for banks to fall and for people to lose their homes. Eventually the market will correct itself.



cyberdude, get a reality check, what caused the credit crunch was greed, bankers regulating themselves, writing their own checks and setting their own salaries and bonuses. You seem to despise social justice for the poor but you seem to advocate social welfare for the rich. Until the bankers are made to face the same reality as the poor, it will only be a matter of time before we hit another crisis. Though the bankers know, if they creata a debt so large, the government will bail them out and the rest of society picks up the tab. The owners of the Hedge funds have made billions over the last ten years without any real growth in the economy and you still have fucking faith in them. Why do you think the US is in the shit because the poor can't pay for their mortgages? Grow up and use your brain.


Exactly why the banks need to suffer. Stop bailing them out! The greedy on Wall Street need to be punished and what better way tha for them to lose their money?
Instead we got liberals who say the best thing is for the government to buy up property in danger of foreclosure. Sure that might save someone from losing their house....but it also bails out the lender who only saw dollar signs...

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:21:56 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

what caused the credit crunch was greed, bankers regulating themselves, writing their own checks and setting their own salaries and bonuses. You seem to despise social justice for the poor but you seem to advocate social welfare for the rich. Until the bankers are made to face the same reality as the poor, it will only be a matter of time before we hit another crisis. Though the bankers know, if they create a debt so large, the government will bail them out and the rest of society picks up the tab. The owners of the Hedge funds have made billions over the last ten years without any real growth in the economy and you still have fucking faith in them. Why do you think the US is in the shit because the poor can't pay for their mortgages?


MC, Who will a bail out most. The individuals who bought a house they couldn't afford or the Banks that granted the loans? The percentage of fools who bought beyond their means is very small. Its a tragedy in the micro for them, but as a population sample in the macro, it is very small. Also, consider that to qualify and be a mortgaged home owner usually disqualifies you from being considered poor.

Now contrast that with Banking institutions who will be granted millions if not billions in government assistance as part of this bail out. I've never know you to ever support government welfare for corporations. Why do you do so in this case? The bail out comes at the expense of the poor as well as those who purchased a house and got a mortgage within their means. You support taking tax money from them and giving it to the banking institutions?



You've got it wrong Merc. If the banks were properly regulated and were made accountable, there wouldn't have been billions made in dodgey loans in the first place. The reason for the shit hitting the fan is the belief that men in suits are honest and have integrity, can regulate themselves and are somehow immune to greed. They have less integrity than youths selling dope on the corner.

The foolish naive people who bought a pig in a poke were the victims of con merchants that are no better than the Nigerian con merchants that surf the internet looking for fools. Now it might be the case that the fools that fall for the con get what they deserve but the con merchants still deserve to end up behind bars and not in a tax haven somewhere enjoying the ill gotten gains.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/3/2008 2:24:56 PM >

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:24:01 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I feel Obama will move the country in a dangerous direction towards socialism and government control of economic matters. I know this may sound cold but banks and borrowers need to hurt a little. Banks made very stupid lending decisions and borrowers took out loans they had no ability to pay back. Point fingers all you want, but the bank offered the loan and the borrower signed the mortgage. No one was forced to sign a mortgage. The way out of the mortgage crisis is for banks to fall and for people to lose their homes. Eventually the market will correct itself.



cyberdude, get a reality check, what caused the credit crunch was greed, bankers regulating themselves, writing their own checks and setting their own salaries and bonuses. You seem to despise social justice for the poor but you seem to advocate social welfare for the rich. Until the bankers are made to face the same reality as the poor, it will only be a matter of time before we hit another crisis. Though the bankers know, if they creata a debt so large, the government will bail them out and the rest of society picks up the tab. The owners of the Hedge funds have made billions over the last ten years without any real growth in the economy and you still have fucking faith in them. Why do you think the US is in the shit because the poor can't pay for their mortgages? Grow up and use your brain.


Exactly why the banks need to suffer. Stop bailing them out! The greedy on Wall Street need to be punished and what better way tha for them to lose their money?
Instead we got liberals who say the best thing is for the government to buy up property in danger of foreclosure. Sure that might save someone from losing their house....but it also bails out the lender who only saw dollar signs...


Lack of regulation is the problem dear boy, the lack of regulation.

Even the bankers are admitting to that much.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:28:00 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

You've got it wrong Merc. If the banks were properly regulated and were made accountable, there wouldn't have been billions made in dodgey loans in the first place. The reason for the shit hitting the fan is the belief that men in suits are honest and have integrity, can regulate themselves and are somehow immune to greed. They have less integrity youths selling dope on the corner.


Don't change the focus of your original point, MC. Supporting a bail out supports those institutions you condemn. Their integrity isn't impacted by a proposed bail out their bottom line is. It would go up dramatically by this bail out that you support.

It is YOU who want to reward their dishonest. Letting them fail and NOT bailing them out is my idea.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:37:57 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

You've got it wrong Merc. If the banks were properly regulated and were made accountable, there wouldn't have been billions made in dodgey loans in the first place. The reason for the shit hitting the fan is the belief that men in suits are honest and have integrity, can regulate themselves and are somehow immune to greed. They have less integrity youths selling dope on the corner.


Don't change the focus of your original point, MC. Supporting a bail out supports those institutions you condemn. Their integrity isn't impacted by a proposed bail out their bottom line is. It would go up dramatically by this bail out that you support.

It is YOU who want to reward their dishonest. Letting them fail and NOT bailing them out is my idea.



I wasn't supporting the banks being bailed out, I think you are misreading my post. However, the hedge fund owners who have made all the money have already gone are sitting pretty in tax havens and if the governments let the banks fail, everyone will end up paying more than they would by bailing them out now. The horse has already bolted. Regulations should have been in place years ago but capitalists wouldn't hear of it claiming it was interference in the markets. This crunch proves the point, governments need to intervene and regulate the markets or they will end up paying later.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/3/2008 2:38:46 PM >

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:39:18 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		The rich taking advantage of the poor is nothing new, meatcleaver. Ever been to a used car dealership?

People make bad financial decisions all the time. And over the past 5 or 6 years, I've never seen so many people make so many bad decisions with their money. Even the rich got screwed in many places. Just as many investment properties are in foreclosure.

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:44:21 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The rich taking advantage of the poor is nothing new, meatcleaver. Ever been to a used car dealership?

People make bad financial decisions all the time. And over the past 5 or 6 years, I've never seen so many people make so many bad decisions with their money. Even the rich got screwed in many places. Just as many investment properties are in foreclosure.



You will never get a "nanny state" lifer to understand the concept of personal responsibility. He views the government as the cure all for any problem. 4% of the total mortgages in the US are in trouble. What is there to fix?

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:44:38 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The rich taking advantage of the poor is nothing new, meatcleaver. Ever been to a used car dealership?

People make bad financial decisions all the time. And over the past 5 or 6 years, I've never seen so many people make so many bad decisions with their money. Even the rich got screwed in many places. Just as many investment properties are in foreclosure.


The difference is cyberdude, this current crisis was created by the governments giving the rich a nod and wink to rip people off and fuck up the economy by making bad loans and selling them off as secure loans. That is criminal in anyones book, unless it is the financial markets that is. The hedge funds creamed off money due to lack of regulation (government should have been on top of that) and now the crisis in the financial markets coul;d spill over into the real economy and effect millions of ordinary people. This current situation is proof that the markets need regulating for the benefit of everyone.

There are laws here in regard to second hand car owners ripping off their customers, that doesn't seem to be the case in the financial markets. Well there are laws agsinst ripping each other off but there seems to be no laws against ripping off decent hard working people.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/3/2008 2:46:18 PM >

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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:49:58 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		The only way I'm voting for anybody other than ron paul is if it is McCain versus Obama. I'll reluctantly vote for Obama. I dislike Obama's world view to, but I'm 100% repelled by Hillary and McCain. I think I might jump in front of a train if I have to listen to either of those two for 4 years. And McCain so alienated me on ever voting for him during the republican debates which I watched religiously. I mean he admitted he doesn't understand economics, and he is about as war obsessed as Satan himself. No fucking way, and Hillary is as close to a communist as you can get, wanting to create a new government project every week.

Hell, at least Obama is anti-war, and will only start a new program every other month. He's still a destructive force as far as I'm concerned, but at this point, it is confirmed we are going to get a bad next president anyway(by my standards), so might as well get the lesser of the bad presidents in office.

I guess. Actually I went from being obsessed with this election to almost not reading anything anymore, once the only ones left were either Satan, or demons(LOL).

Yeah, maybe comparing them with demons and Satan is to much, they are much more destructive than demons could ever be.





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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:51:22 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

The way out of the mortgage crisis is for banks to fall and for people to lose their homes.


Actually, since the banks would fail, the loans would just be sold to another bank during the fire sale.

I wonder why the Government spent 30 billion bailing out Bear/Sterns and only 10 billion rebuilding NOLA...



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