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RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 11:16:58 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
And heaven forbid that someone refuse to fit in a box.

I will refrain from the jokes a sadist could make about fitting people into boxes. 

/flame on
You put yourself in box by defining yourself as a female submissive in your profile.  What if female or submissive had no clear definitions and you said you don’t fit in the “fem/sub box”, it would be as silly as saying a vanilla kink is BDSM. 
 
Knowing the difference between BDSM, swinging and vanilla is the common sense lacking on these forums as mentioned by the OP.  Spouting off about boxes in reply to a concise post about the history, categories and definitions of our lifestyles only proves his point.
/flame off

_____________________________

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I give good thread.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 11:25:27 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		CM requires me to pick one or the other. If you read my profile, you'll find I define myself as neither specifically but as slave, submissive and pet. As I've stated mutiple times, and the many long threads on this forum support, there simply isn't a clear defination of slave or submission. You have one but it only applies to you and those who serve it. It is meaningless to me and mine, as our definations are to you.

I don't believe there is a difference. I don't think you are either a swinger or BDSM. You can be a swinger and not into BDSM or you can be both. For that matter I don't think someone has to fit your defination of hardcore to count as BDSM. What you think is hardcore probably scares some and makes other laugh.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 4/11/2008 11:26:58 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 12:15:19 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
And heaven forbid that someone refuse to fit in a box.

I will refrain from the jokes a sadist could make about fitting people into boxes. 

/flame on
You put yourself in box by defining yourself as a female submissive in your profile.  What if female or submissive had no clear definitions and you said you don’t fit in the “fem/sub box”, it would be as silly as saying a vanilla kink is BDSM. 
 
Knowing the difference between BDSM, swinging and vanilla is the common sense lacking on these forums as mentioned by the OP.  Spouting off about boxes in reply to a concise post about the history, categories and definitions of our lifestyles only proves his point.
/flame off


But there again...don't you put people into your own "box" when they do not fit into your definition of what BDSM is?  Show me where there is a reference source that speaks to the level at which "vanilla kink" stops being vanilla kink and becomes BDSM. (reference source being defined as a source of information taken by the BDSM community as a whole as a legitimate reference for anyone involved in BDSM...just as Gray's Anatomy is defined as a a source of information taken by the healthcare community (and others) as a whole as a legitimate reference for anyone involved in the study of anatomy, allopathic care, alternative health care, etc.)

As aquatic noted, your definition of hardcore BDSM may be another's definition of "grins and tickles" and another's definition of something that has gone way beyond the S/M stage into something that is actually insane.  Does that make them right or you?  This is why, for all the crap it receives and the ill ways it has been used, S.S.C. can make sense to anyone who realizes that Safe, Sane, and Consensual is actually an oxymoron in BDSM...to the vanilla world, about the only thing they get is that, for some reason, the people involved in it---usually referencing the submissive/masochistic partner---do consent to this.  Of  course, they argue that there must be something "wrong" with the person because nothing about what we do is safe or sane...in their opinion.  But to ME...my definition, and my partner's definition, of what is safe and sane and consensual may make perfect sense to others while at the same time, it may appear vanilla to really hardcore players and way on the edge to players that are on the lower limits of pain and experimentation. 

Your description of vanilla kinksters and swingers who play at BDSM may be totally right in some instances but in other instances, let's face it...your view of what BDSM and D/s is as it applies to your world results in your own use of "boxes" for others.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 4/11/2008 12:30:09 PM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 12:26:28 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I have seen people and myself change too much over the years to feel comfortable with the idea that roles and expectations are fixed things.  It makes it pretty hard to cubbyhole-or to want to.

_____________________________

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 1:49:18 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

{Fuck the flame retardant suit.  Jumping in with both feet, and a two figured salute}


I haven't read the replies.  Maybe you have some good ones.  I tend to not reply to people who flip me off as their reader right off the bat.

"Hi, I'm going to tell you something, but first let me give you a hearty Fuck You."

No thanks.  

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 3:47:51 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

{Fuck the flame retardant suit.  Jumping in with both feet, and a two figured salute}


I haven't read the replies.  Maybe you have some good ones.  I tend to not reply to people who flip me off as their reader right off the bat.

"Hi, I'm going to tell you something, but first let me give you a hearty Fuck You."

No thanks.  

You are absolutely right. It was bad form to begin this way. My apologies. I am disappointed that I will not get to hear your thoughts on the post itself. Oh well.

But only so much. I have been closely watching this to read replies. I have also had to use much restraint to not comment previously. Now I feel like I have given this enough time to develope for me to come back in and clarify my intent. No. I am not backpeddling.

I took much deliberation before posting this and several drafts. I wanted to convey a specific amount of hostility. I am still unsure if it was enough. I am not so into the post count to specifically address each reply as I have done in the past but I will try to address the majority.

It seems that my intent was not clear in that I was NOT meaning "Don't ask stupid questions." NO question is stupid, when asked from a standpoint of learning. Asking HOW to be safer in the pratices of what you do, is ALWAYS the right question. Even asking if it CAN be done safely is not stupid. I was not even querying the hypothetical OP's ability to make judgement of SSC/RACK as fittinng for them. My point was, why does it have to be reduced to one or the other every time?

These acronyms, (as much as I hate acronyms) are generally embedded in our own self preservation insticts. To not have these natural instincts, instantly dis-qualifies anyone as a candidate *I* would be interested in having the basest of conversations let alone a relationship with. I should hope this is the case for anyone on these boards.

The "stop, drop, and roll" example given earlier is possibly the only rational explanation I agree with. However, we are not in 3rd grade. Any one on these boards, has attested by agreement to TOS they are at least of legal, consenting age, thereby negating the possibility of being so young. And hence, the example becomes moot.

I am not trying to enforce or dicourage the practice of either acronym. What I am asking, is why is this the be all, end all, of these posters of pestulance? Are we teaching elemetary school? Are the ones who need to hear this, going to all of a sudden stand up, and scream "OMG. It all makes sense now? Now I know exactly every line I am unwilling to cross." No. You know it, and so do I.

I am all for educating the less experienced. This is, in fact, one of my life goals. As it is also, to never stop trying to find things I don't know, and educate myself in these.

These acronyms, obviously from the replies this thread has generated, do NOT apply to everyone. It has been posted on many threads in recent days/weeks/months/and I can only suspect, years, that this is a topic of great contention.

My issue with "stupid" begins and dies with, I am sick of it. If one is too ignorant to take thier own well being into thier own charge, and be accountable for it, then I am afraid that this type of idiocy is only going to further denegrate our species to superior catastrophe, and make those of us left continue to carry the sick and dying into another level of  "Survival of those that the strong/intelligent are willing to propogate". What ever happened to natural selection?

The whole debate of  "boxes" and labels... Not this thread. I don't give a damn what any one of you calls yourself. As I am certain, none of you give a damn what I call myself. This is not the point I was addressing. That is another 50 pages worth of thread titles in this and other forums. I suggest using the search function for this debate. I don't care. Title/labels/names/honors. They mean nothing to any one that does not wear them, in their own mind.

As for the "skip those posts" suggestion. I usually do. But again, not my point. One of the few actual questions I posted in the OP
quote:

Is it contributory to discussion for someone to say this EVERY SINGLE TIME!? 

Is it contibuting anything to say it again and again or is this more about espousing the "do it my way" of thinking? No one here is any one else's here baby sitter. (per TOS{exception-scening})

I expected much more expounding of SSC/RACK. I am surprised it was not more evident here. Surprised, but glad.

I will, at this point, digress, and allow further input before continuing, if it does.

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 4:04:59 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		To the OP:

Wow. You've been on here two whole months and you are already tired of the "SSC/RACK communication mantra?" Wait until you've been on here for several years, as I and many others have. You'll eventually learn to tune the repetative stuff out. But I wouldn't want any of the regulars here to stop chanting it. This site attracts so many newbies that it's best to keep drumming it into them at every turn. (Maybe eventually, it will actually sink in!) I'm glad to hear that you are well versed in the basics of BDSM, it's ethics and it's legal ramifications. However, I don't think you can assume that everyone is operating at your high, lofty experience level of two whole months.

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 4:20:23 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		OK... It seems this two whole months thing.. has people in a tissy. I will address so as to preclude any further notation of it.

I have been on THIS site for two months. That portion of the intro was sorta tongua and cheek. I make NO claim to my level of experience or greatness. I have done what I have done. I have learned what I have learned. Any of this NOT withstanding, my point is as stated. These mantras are not deserving of any one's intellect I know. Those whose itellect it does apply to, should not be allowed to breath and pro-create.
*edited to add the "not" in the last sentence*
As for your tiresome viewing of same old crap... I envy your patience.

< Message edited by HerLord -- 4/11/2008 4:24:10 PM >

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 4:21:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord
You are absolutely right. It was bad form to begin this way. My apologies. I am disappointed that I will not get to hear your thoughts on the post itself. Oh well.


Thank you for the acknowledgment.  And I accept the apology. :)

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 4:37:00 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

{Fuck the flame retardant suit.  Jumping in with both feet, and a two figured salute}

Having been on this board now for 2 whole months, one of the things I am gratified and pleased to be able to say is that I respect the opinions and thoughts of the intelligent folks on here.  It is my opinion that most of the people here have enough experience in BDSM and life to know what is right for them.

However, I have a gripe.  My gripe is this: no matter how experienced the poster, if it’s an issue of WIITWD, every single time there will be at least ONE responder (usually more) who beat the drum of safe/sane/consensual, as well as, as one poster put it, the old “communication and negotiation mantra.”  Even if they are new to the lifestyle or new to the boards, if they haven’t developed the common sense of self-preservation, they’re too fucking stupid to be included in the gene pool anyway.   

Is it contributory to discussion for someone to say this EVERY SINGLE TIME!?  Isn’t it possible that common sense dictates that you don’t willingly risk your life, your sanity, or your happiness for the sake of sex? For those who don’t heed common sense, thank you for removing yourselves from the gene pool.   As for communication, well, no relationship can EVER be successful without it, so it seems self-evident. 

To me, being experienced not just in BDSM, but the basic painfulness of life, in particular relationships, it’s insulting.  Also, those who repetitively need to hear it are those who have to be of such a low intelligence that they will fail in any relationship anyway.  We know that it has to be SSC.  We know that it has to be RACK or whatever the hell acronym you chose to use.  Of course it has to be consensual…when it’s not that’s called rape.  It’s against the law.  As far as safe or risk aware, if you are going in with blinders on refusing to be responsible for your own safety, you’re too fucking ignorant to breathe, so you get what you deserve.  If you have to ask if it’s safe, it probably isn’t, so educate yourself on it, or don’t do it. 

Give me some input that hasn’t been said ten million times already.  Try to think of something original to say, instead of regurgitating the same old crap over and over again that isn’t of any help to anyone that has at least an ounce of common fucking sense.  As for the rest of them that don’t, fuck ‘em; get them out of the gene pool.

I’d be interested in hearing the thoughts of those who do this oh, so often, and of hearing the thoughts of those who feel the same.  So, tell me, what are your thoughts?



((pats your back)) there there get it all out.

You feel better now?

MS

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 4:39:42 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		As a matter of fact.. Yes. I do. Thanx for asking.

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 4:40:35 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

As a matter of fact.. Yes. I do. Thanx for asking.



((giggles)) oh good Im so glad.

Squee!

MS

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 6:16:37 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The problem with outlawing safety police is you never know who's reading the thread. Who has no experience and therefore no ability to judge what is or isn't safe, or how to mitigate risks.

Doesn't bother me if people repeat the basics for a kind of play. Because even with something as simple as wax play, I needed that safety info in the beginning. The truth is, I had no idea that beeswax candles burn much hotter than soy or paraffin. I read a post, it detailed what kinds of candles to buy, how to judge the temp by holding the candle very high up to begin and slowly lowering it, until you got to a temperature you liked. I had no common sense about it because I had no knowledge of it, to a point that not only didn't I know what questions to ask, I didn't know that there were questions that should be asked.

If you're an expert, skip over the safety police warnings. But remember that somebody else may escape injury through that same safety post.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to mefisto69)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 6:40:50 PM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline 		I really don't care what people do to or with each other (as long as it is consensual). What I DO object to is having to pay for/clean up the mess they leave behind when they do something idiotic, in the form of higher healthcare premiums or taxes.

_____________________________

Thinking Kitten

If you can't stand the heat... tell the chef to get out of the kitchen.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 8:12:19 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingKitten

I really don't care what people do to or with each other (as long as it is consensual). What I DO object to is having to pay for/clean up the mess they leave behind when they do something idiotic, in the form of higher healthcare premiums or taxes.

Somebody who understands.

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 9:08:54 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings herlord,

haven't read the whole thread, but in response to your original post, in my case, i usually speak from my own experience. my own experience, for example, is that poly requires tons of communication - that seems like common sense, and it's a cliche that gets repeated over and over, but if someone comes in the poly forum and asks a question to poly people and it's a pertinent answer, it's the one i give - because honestly, communication is the one thing that keeps that element of our relationship together and nurturing. same thing for discussions of consensuality or any other issue. if i give a cliche answer, it's because i've lived that answer, and probably the reason that it is cliche is that it does work.

respectfully,
annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 10:05:06 PM   
Poetryinpain


Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline 		If one doesn't like SSC and RACK, how about these acronyms:

DDAS - don't do anything stupid
UCS - use common sense
and the ever-popular non-acronym THINK

While it might be tempting to say, "Let the sorry bastards choke their subs to death and end up in jail. It's no skin off my nose and it takes them out of the gene pool," at least some of us feel that to let someone make a mistake that we could have talked them out of would be almost as bad as handing them the rope and saying, "Go for it, dummy."

I'd rather piss off someone who feels his experience is so great he doesn't need the warnings anymore than feel guilty that I could have prevented a tragedy.

pip, there's the teacher in me coming out again

_____________________________

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 10:23:43 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

I agree completely with you.  Its very obvious from much of what I read here that people do not communicate enough, or perhaps effectively.


I suspect ppl talk just fine.  I think the issue is the other person doesn't like the answer and chooses to ingore it.  I've seen that happen plenty of times.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 10:42:59 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Safety is something you do moment by moment. You have to be constantly aware, and not take things for granted. And if someone does not have enough sense to do that, all the safety police in the world will not make a sungle bit of difference.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA - 4/11/2008 11:10:37 PM   
DDraigeuraid


Posts: 321
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		While to those of us with a bit of experience under our belts, SSC, RACK, "common sense" become mundane topics, not everyone has that experience.  There are 18 year olds who are horny joining every day.  It is up to those of us in the community to teach the young, even if they think they know it all already.  Yes, some of them will continue to do stupid things.  Hell, I've done stupid things when I was thinking with the wrong head.  There is no cure for stupid except learning.  We have to keep up the dialoge, on the off chance that a newbe wanders in. 

There are dangers out there, and dangerous people that prey on the unknowing, the naieve, the lonely.  There were two predators back in my native Kansas.  Does anyone remember the BTK killer in Wichita?  Stood for bind,torture,kill, which he did do.  He preyed on the lonely, etc.  Same for the one in Kansas City just a few years ago.  They found the bodies in 55 gal drums in a storage locker.  The one in KC used the internet to find his victims. 

If we can protect the new ones by maybe getting them to think through these posts, or at least some of them, then we have done the service that CM extends to the kinksters out there.

Dragon


(in reply to Poetryinpain)
Profile   Post #: 60
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