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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 4:20:07 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

If you're going to vote at all, write in Ron Paul. He's a rare exception to the rule. Any other candidate will just give us more of the same... possibly to a somewhat greater or lesser degree.
 

I have considered Ron Paul. He is the only one I’ve heard that doesn't seem to use the same "baffle them with BS" aproach.

A big problem is, with all of the lying; I do not know how to be sure when, and who is telling the truth.

quote:


The thing is, no matter who is in office, some of the people, are going to be unhappy, and feel unrepresented.
 
 
Level,
 
I agree with what you are saying here.
 
I think we forget, however, people feel that way because it is true.
 
When you think about it, no one is being represented, really; some people just have interests that coincide with the interests of those who count.

Cjan,
 
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I agree with the sentiment of “where there is a will there is a way”; as a matter of fact, this thread is inspired by such thoughts.
 
However, my intent was not to find a solution for me. While I don’t exactly have concrete plans, I at least know the direction I must head in. I also know, due to my choices, informed or not, I have responsibilities to tend to, before I can focus on me.
 
The thing is, this thread isn’t about me; it’s about US.
 
When I go to the poles to vote, unvote (haven’t figured out how I’m going to manage that), or some unknown plan, depending on whether or not I feel one of the candidates deserves the job; I will not be voting for someone who supports my issues, but the one who supports everyone’s issues.

quote:

Are you wasting your time and energy when voting? can you possibly hope to change the system?


NG,
 
I completely agree with your analysis.
 
Perhaps not voting is not an option, and the important thing is how one votes. The problem I am seeing; trying to figure out how to make the option I want available.
 
Changing the system is much like falling a tree, not so hard, the tricky part is getting it to fall in the desired direction.
 
I appreciate everyone’s responses, even the one that still has me feeling…. icky.
 
Something I touched on in the OP, but apparently was not clear on; I do not find that my situation is any worse then millions of other people. As a matter of fact, despite the lack of income, I think I am better off in many ways.
 
My desire toward material gain is minimal; my expectations toward acquisition of such; even less.
 
Not because of a lack of willingness, nor ambition; but because I realize; I can not know what tomorrow brings, and lack of expectations, means limited disappointment. Furthermore, you can't miss what you never had.
 
I only ask that there be no one standing on my head, pretending to give me a hand up, while I seek to fulfill my capabilities.
 
k


_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 4:25:09 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. " ~ Thomas Jeferson


This quote makes me want to know what he knew. What would he have considered the best form of government?
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to mastervalentine)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 5:43:09 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Hello, my name is, irrelevant. I have come here today, to talk to those of you who may not know of people like me.
 
I thought it might be useful for those who don’t know, or pay attention to my kind, because the way things are going, it won’t be long before many of you, or your loved ones, will be forced to be another me.
 
What am I? I am one of the living to exist, crew. I work my ass off, to get absolutely nowhere. I’m just a little above the bottom, in that I have a full time job, but I don’t make enough money to pay all of the bills by myself. And while the checks for $14+ a wk (for 2 kids) from the ex, are much appreciated, they don’t quite put me over the top; if ya know what I mean.
 
To put it in a better perspective, my income taxes were some ridiculously low amount, around $20-$40, and I got a return for a little over $7000.
 
Don’t get too excited, it all went to bills and car payments, so the kids and I can have a place to live, and I can have a vehicle to go to work, to do it all over again for another year.
 
I’m not complaining, I know when it became my fault, and where I should have done better. I have hopes that in a few years, when I will be able to put more focus on me again; I will be able to increase my abilities toward being productive; at least enough to give my kids a hand up.
 
My concern is; it won’t matter.
 
At one point I blamed much of my situation on my parents; after I stopped blaming myself for “making” them act the way they did. I realize now, their behavior was just a by product of the times. Everything else, just stuff that happens when we don’t pay attention.
 
I used to blame the public school I attended, for not being able to teach me. That is, after I stopped believing their assumptions, that there is something wrong with my ability to learn. Now I realize, they are only a by product of the rules and restrictions placed on them.
 
The rest of my immediate family is doing pretty well, according to society’s standards. They actually have to pay taxes. Thing is, I don’t really see how they are better off. Sure, they get to go places, buy things, and what not, but their race really isn’t any different then mine, with the exception of them having to run faster; and when its over, we’ll all end up in the same place.
 
The reason I wrote this, is because I’ve been sitting here wondering who I should vote for; if I should vote; and if not, then what; because I can’t ignore the fact that something needs to be done.
 
I just can’t see the point of trying to decide which kind of manure is best, when, on our present course, all we will be planting, is gardens of stone.
 
k


What a phenomenally, exceptionally....excellent post.

I haven't read the follow ons...I'm sure they were dripping with "get a life" and "I'm so sorry for you...you've been wronged".

You're in New Hampshire.  A bastion of wealth.  I'll assume you're in the service industry (forgive me if I'm wrong...your post alluded to a place in life that didn't fit in with the demographics).

I was once in your position.  I was young.

I didn't care for my spot (or position) in life.  I made a decision and changed it.

I'm a guy, and I have no children, so I'm sure there will be many who will chide me as to my opinions on this subject...but...

I read your post very carefully.  You write well.  I didn't find one single error in grammar or spelling.  You're above most.

As to ability.

And you're in a place wherein which you can grow....except...

Rents are horrendous...and if you could get a mortgage, a starter home would be between a shitload...and 9 kabillion....for a closet.

I just looked...you're 38.

It must seem like you've lived forever, like you've done your time...and why hasn't it happened for you yet?

Some people do well by the age of 27.  Many of them live in places like Alabama or New Mexico, where you can still buy a house for $145,000.00 (in New Hampshire of course...that's barely a down payment).

Others are still renters in Manhattan at the age of 60, and they're thrilled to be there. So many of them will never see the snows you admire on your laziest days, the branches bending, on the days you stay home to experience...because they have to deal with cabbies that swear at them, and snow plow drivers that only deposit detritus on their newest BMW.

Many people get to their 50's or 60's...having lived their lives with "plenty", but every Thanksgiving was empty because they spent it as the token single guy or single girl....enjoying their trips to Paris, seeing the Alps...but never hearing "Daddies Home!!!!!!".

Don't spend a lot of time wondering how your life might have been better...don't wonder how many times you missed out on the better things simply because you chose to stay in New Hampshire.

You can leave.

Nothing's stopping you.

And remember something else....

You have something I'll never have....

And everything I have...that you want...

I'd give to you in a heartbeat.







(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 5:47:40 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
        Yep, if that is the perception you want to take.  I know people who live in million dollar homes and complain about the cost of utilities, or drive a luxury SUV and bitch about the price of a brake job.  The glass being described by the OP sounds a lot better than half-full to me.


huh. for some reason, i didn't get the impression that keira was coming at it from that perspective. nevertheless, i agree with her, and i can't afford a car, so i can't bitch about the price of a brake job.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 5:49:39 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. " ~ Thomas Jeferson


This quote makes me want to know what he knew. What would he have considered the best form of government?
 
k


A very limited one, I would guess. I'd love to be able to ask him, and the other Founders, what they would think of what we have now.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 6:19:43 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

 
 
quote:

I do know 'people like you,' at least from a strictly financial point of view. 
 

 
You don’t know me, period. You think you know parts of my life, but the truth is; you can’t even be sure I’m telling the truth.
 



      That statement doesn't really jibe with this one from your OP Kiera.  You made the introduction.

I thought it might be useful for those who don’t know, or pay attention to my kind, because the way things are going, it won’t be long before many of you, or your loved ones, will be forced to be another me.


      Nope.  No certainty at all you are telling the truth, but it doesn't matter. The situation you described is real enough for many.  I've lived at a number of economic levels over my years in this life, from dirt poor, to very comfortable and casual with my money.  I haven't done filthy rich yet, but I'm hoping to finish out that way.

     You want some truth?  Compared to the overwhelming majority of people on this planet, you live a life of fabulous wealth and luxury.  Want money at the end of the month, instead of the other way around?  Adjust how you spend it.

     The situation you describe, be it verifiable fact or pot-stirring allegory, is one of mindset and expectation, not subject to change by any sort of gov't official such an individual might vote for.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 6:34:21 PM   
mastervalentine


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. " ~ Thomas Jeferson


This quote makes me want to know what he knew. What would he have considered the best form of government?
 
k


A very limited one, I would guess. I'd love to be able to ask him, and the other Founders, what they would think of what we have now.


They wouldn't waste time spinning in their graves. If we had an opportunity to ask them, they would ask us to raise a militia, I think.

_____________________________

"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 6:48:57 PM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The glass being described by the OP sounds a lot better than half-full to me.



So, the OP paints you an optimistic picture and you take her to task for what in your words amounts to "pointing the finger of blame".

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 6:59:37 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine


They wouldn't waste time spinning in their graves. If we had an opportunity to ask them, they would ask us to raise a militia, I think.


And then what?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to mastervalentine)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 7:26:06 PM   
mastervalentine


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. "~ Abraham Lincoln
 
 

_____________________________

"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 7:33:46 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine


They wouldn't waste time spinning in their graves. If we had an opportunity to ask them, they would ask us to raise a militia, I think.


And then what?


Then we all "fuck the cock we were dealt".

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 8:19:28 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		Griswold,
 
Thank you for the kind words.
 
I thought the post had feeling, but I usually mess up on spelling and grammar; are you sure there weren’t any mistakes?
 
I’m hoping you decided to read the rest of the thread; it helps in explaining some of my expectations for myself, and this thread. Since I have already adlibbed a little toward what you are saying here, I won’t bother to clarify, unless asked.

TheHeretic,
 
I am truly at a loss here. I am unclear as to what part of my post you are getting your impression from.
 
You seem to be implying, I was responsible for my parents behavior, and had the ability to change teaching methods for public schools, while I was attending no less.
 
Was there any age where I might not have been responsible for my environment, or how I responded to it?
 
Adding: Something I forgot to mention; you also appear to be judging me, by what you know of others in similar financial situations; I am not them.

k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 4/12/2008 8:24:50 PM >

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 8:40:37 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine


They wouldn't waste time spinning in their graves. If we had an opportunity to ask them, they would ask us to raise a militia, I think.


And then what?


Then we all "fuck the cock we were dealt".


Such a dirty mind...... a good spanking is what you need.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 8:54:38 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine


They wouldn't waste time spinning in their graves. If we had an opportunity to ask them, they would ask us to raise a militia, I think.


And then what?


Then we all "fuck the cock we were dealt".


Such a dirty mind...... a good spanking is what you need.


It's NG's fault.  He gives me dirty thoughts then he refuses to spank me.



_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 8:59:51 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira



TheHeretic,
 
I am truly at a loss here. I am unclear as to what part of my post you are getting your impression from.
 
You seem to be implying, I was responsible for my parents behavior, and had the ability to change teaching methods for public schools, while I was attending no less.
 



         Now I'm a tad confuzzled, myself.  If you have moved past pointing fingers, why are you coming back to square one?  You life, real or imagined (and I honestly don't care, I'm replying to electrons on a screen) is what it is.  At some point you started making your own choices, and are responsible for them, and the consequences of them.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 9:49:43 PM   
MstrssScarlet


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Status: offline 		Poll takers hate me.  I'm for gay marriages, but support the NRA.  I'm neither pro life nor pro choice.  Too tough of a decision unless you're in their shoes.  I'm trying to get disability, but won't vote for anyone promising more handouts at the cost of the taxpayers.  I worry about my son not having insurance, but am not willing to go to socialized medicine.  Overall I'm a conservative, but I have some very liberal views depending on the topic. 
I'm a veteran myself.  I'm of the school that if you don't vote, you can't complain.  I vote for the person I think will do the least harm and that's about as good as it gets these days. *sigh*  Keep in mind that the president is only a figure head.  If we have a republican president and a democratic congress, they're going to spend most of their time fighting, and that's what we've been watching for the last four years.
Mistress Scarlet

_____________________________

"Say, that hurts a little bit" "And you don't like to be hurt do ya?" "I don't know...kinda fun sometimes if it's done in the right spirit."
Jean Harlow in The Beast of the City

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 10:02:29 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Likely as not I'll vote 3rd party again this election, niether of the two big parties macth enough of my philosophy to have earned my vote.

However I try to make even the elections when it's just state or local politics. I want to hear a bit more from Bob Barr (who recently announced for the Libertarian ticket)
Like the last 2 presidential elections I'll probably vote for the Libertarian candidate. I don't worry about throwing the vote away that's what they use to try to keep us in the fold of whatever party represents even a fraction of what we like. It could very well end up that this advice sends us into a Democratic party president this time again (as it did when Clinton won the first time with less than a majority of the popular vote) Seems generally that the conservatives are the ones who are more likely to run off to a third party.

If you're not sure who to vote for yet don't worry too much you have a few months left to figure it out.



(in reply to MstrssScarlet)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 10:23:49 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

Poll takers hate me.  I'm for gay marriages, but support the NRA.  I'm neither pro life nor pro choice.  Too tough of a decision unless you're in their shoes.  I'm trying to get disability, but won't vote for anyone promising more handouts at the cost of the taxpayers.  I worry about my son not having insurance, but am not willing to go to socialized medicine.  Overall I'm a conservative, but I have some very liberal views depending on the topic. 
I'm a veteran myself.  I'm of the school that if you don't vote, you can't complain.  I vote for the person I think will do the least harm and that's about as good as it gets these days. *sigh*  Keep in mind that the president is only a figure head.  If we have a republican president and a democratic congress, they're going to spend most of their time fighting, and that's what we've been watching for the last four years.
Mistress Scarlet


Okay, so which candidate do you believe would do the least harm... and why? 

(in reply to MstrssScarlet)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/12/2008 10:52:05 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. " ~ Thomas Jeferson


This quote makes me want to know what he knew. What would he have considered the best form of government?
 
k


Quotes by Thomas Jefferson:

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

"A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference."

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

"I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master."

"I have seen enough of one war never to wish to see another."

"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."



(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 4:07:59 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

He gives me dirty thoughts.....



A good catholic girl like you, Marie?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 60
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