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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 4:11:29 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Perhaps not voting is not an option, and the important thing is how one votes. The problem I am seeing; trying to figure out how to make the option I want available.

Not voting is not an option for me; I believe I have a responsibility to exercise my stake in the nation.

'Depends on your choice, I suppose. Assuming there are others who think like you, there must be an outlet for you.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 4:18:57 AM

mnottertail

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Kinsey's report in the '50's (for americans at least) demonstrate that lapsed (or very non-practicing) catholics are some of the filthiest sluts on the face of this earth, so----enjoy!

Moshe

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 4:20:23 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

filthiest sluts

Sounds promising....what were they were using as measures of filthy and sluts?

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 4:24:39 AM

mnottertail

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Their wanton willingness to engage in traditional Jesuit behaviors (buggery, orally greasing the pole, and beyond).

I can get the book out, but it would fill the internet were I to type the relevant statistics, NG. Suffice it to say, they're not a girl who can just say no.

Ron

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 5:11:25 AM

NorthernGent

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It's a fair recommendation: it seems secular nations are missing a trick somewhere along the line.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 6:51:03 AM

theGuideGoddess

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I’m with the OP as there do not seem to be any good choices....to choose to vote for what one does not believe in is to choose to make a bad choice.

I'm writing in Ron Paul.

With that said I believe that the people should rise up for Government reform in EVERY area. Our Government is simply out of control, definitely NOT for, of or by the people. Our nation has gone to hell….we are too soft to put the murderer to death and call murdering unwanted infants choice. We can not follow ten simple commandments, we remove judges who choose to. While America the beautiful once was the greatest nation on earth…shift happens.

I am curious how many have voted to impeach Bush?? Is he ‘your’ good Master?

The Grateful Slave
by Paine's Torch

I am a grateful slave.
My master is a good man.
He gives me food, shelter, work and other things.
All he requires in return is that I obey him.
I am told he has the power to control my life.
I look up to him, and wish that I were so powerful.

My master must understand the world better than I,
because he was chosen by many others for his respected position.
I sometimes complain, but fear I cannot live without his help.
He is a good man.

My master protects my money from theft, before and after he takes half of it.
Before taking his half, he says only he can protect my money.
After taking it, he says it is still mine.
When he spends my money, he says I own the things he has bought.
I don't understand this, but I believe him.
He is a good man.

I need my master for protection, because others would hurt me.
Or, they would take my money and use it for themselves.
My master is better than them:
When my master takes my money, I still own it.
The things he buys are mine.
I cannot sell them, or decide how they are used, but they are mine.
My master tells me so, and I believe him.
He is a good man.

My master provides free education for my children.
He teaches them to respect and obey him and all future masters they will have.
He says they are being taught well; learning things they will need to know in the future.
I believe him.
He is a good man.

My master cares about other masters, who don't have good slaves.
He makes me contribute to their support.
I don't understand why slaves must work for more than one master, but my master says it is necessary.
I believe him.
He is a good man.

Other slaves ask my master for some of my money.
Since he is good to them as he is to me, he agrees.
This means he must take more of my money; but he says this is good for me.
I ask my master why it would not be better to let each of us keep our own money.
He says it is because he knows what is best for each of us.
We believe him.
He is a good man.

My master tells me:
Evil masters in other places are not as good as he; they threaten our comfortable lifestyle and peace.
So, he sends my children to fight the slaves of evil masters.
I mourn their deaths, but my master says it is necessary.
He gives me medals for their sacrifice, and I believe him.
He is a good man.

Good masters sometimes have to kill evil masters, and their slaves.
This is necessary to preserve our way of life; to show others that our version of slavery is the best.
I asked my master:
Why do evil masters' slaves have to be killed, along with their evil master?
He said: "Because they carry out his evil deeds."
"Besides, they could never learn our system; they have been indoctrinated to believe that only their master is good."
My master knows what is best.
He protects me and my children.
He is a good man.

My master lets me vote for a new master, every few years.
I cannot vote to have no master, but he generously lets me choose between two candidates he has selected.
I eagerly wait until election day, since voting allows me to forget that I am a slave.
Until then, my current master tells me what to do.
I accept this.
It has always been so, and I would not change tradition.
My master is a good man.

At the last election, about half the slaves were allowed to vote.
The other half had broken rules set by the master, or were not thought by him to be fit.
Those who break the rules should know better than to disobey!
Those not considered fit should gratefully accept the master chosen for them by others.
It is right, because we have always done it this way.
My master is a good man.

There were two candidates.
One received a majority of the vote - about one-fourth of the slave population.
I asked why the new master can rule over all the slaves, if he only received votes from one-fourth of them?
My master said: "Because some wise masters long ago did it that way."
"Besides, you are the slaves; and we are the master."
I did not understand his answer, but I believed him.
My master knows what is best for me.
He is a good man.

Some slaves have evil masters.
They take more than half of their slaves' money and are chosen by only one-tenth, rather than one-fourth, of their slaves.
My master says they are different from him.
I believe him.
He is a good man.

I asked if I could ever become a master, instead of a slave.
My master said, "Yes, anything is possible."
"But first you must pledge allegiance to your present master, and promise not to abandon the system that made you a slave."
I am encouraged by this possibility.
My master is a good man.

He tells me slaves are the real masters, because they can vote for their masters.
I do not understand this, but I believe him.
He is a good man; who lives for no other purpose than to make his slaves happy.

I asked if I could be neither a master nor a slave.
My master said, "No, you must be one or the other."
"There are not other choices."
I believe him.
He knows best.
He is a good man.

I asked my master how our system is different, from those evil masters.
He said: "In our system, masters work for the slaves."
No longer confused, I am beginning to accept his logic.
Now I see it!
Slaves are in control of their masters, because they can choose new masters every few years.
When the masters appear to control the slaves in between elections, it is all a grand delusion!
In reality, they are carrying out the slaves' desires.
For if this were not so, they would not have been chosen in the last election.
How clear it is to me now!
I shall never doubt the system again.
My master is a good man.

The Guiding Goddess
(edited to remove some huge space consuming spaces that appeared out of nowhere)

< Message edited by theGuideGoddess -- 4/13/2008 6:53:23 AM >

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 8:09:45 AM

charmdpetKeira

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TheHeretic,

My apologies for the confusion, I am still working on mastering my writing technique.

I have a few different reasons for posting.

The night I posted, one of my oldest son’s friends had come over. He had been away ,due to enlisting in the service. After he explained why he was back early, he then blurted out, “Yea, I hope they let me go back. I want to go over there and kill some sand…”.

I didn’t catch the last part, but I didn’t really need to, to get what he was saying.

When I asked him what his purpose for wanting to kill, he didn’t say what I expected him to, something about fighting for freedom; instead he says, “because I’ve been trained kill.”

The whole reason this kid enlisted, was to try to get his life together. I started remembering not so long ago, with another person; the biggest thing that upset me with that, is that the person involved, showed such little concern for life, it implied he probably didn’t even care about his own.

I was getting to see the before picture. (Why I brought up loved ones and stone gardens.)

At the same time, I sit here often, reading, and trying to get a good understanding of what’s going on. It seems more times then not; instead of trying to figure out who might be the best choice, it turns into “well, your guy did this” which is refuted with, “well, your guy did that”. All the while I can’t help thinking; none of them sound beneficial toward the goal.

(Hence, the pointing fingers.)

I am really just trying to decide what I should do, considering how I feel; with a possible bonus of inspiring others to join in.

I will keep practicing. :)

quote:

A very limited one, I would guess. I'd love to be able to ask him, and the other Founders, what they would think of what we have now.

Level,

quote:

"I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master."

After seeing this one, it seems that he might have actually believed in the goal. I think he was right, but I don’t think he would be happy with our progress.

quote:

Not voting is not an option for me; I believe I have a responsibility to exercise my stake in the nation.

NG,

I guess I didn't really see not voting as an option either.

I had an idea toward unvoting. I wonder what would happen if people were to vote for “We The People”.

tGG,

Thank you for sharing.

Thank you all for responding.

k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 4/13/2008 8:11:14 AM >

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 11:26:20 AM

mastervalentine

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"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." ~Thomas Jefferson

Likewise, I feel he would tell anyone who did not have faith in the candidates for any public office that it was their right and privelage not only to abstain from voting, but to seek a candidate better suited to the role of said public office. To vote for someone you do not believe capable is to aid the destruction of this nation.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 11:52:41 AM

charmdpetKeira

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What do you think of my "We the People" idea?

k

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 11:53:33 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

You should vote. If you don't vote then you have no right to complain about what happens

Does voting really make a difference? I doubt it. If voting really made a difference it would be made illegal.

We are allowed to vote within alloted perameters, its a sop, its a pressure release valve but its not meant to introduce change.

To paraphrase Tony Benn, a former British MP (who famously (in Britain anyway), resigned from Parliament to take up a career in politics), any worthwhile reform is won outside the legislature first and then rubber stamped by the legislature which then claims the credit for the reform.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 12:02:58 PM

DrummerDom

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For years now I've had a little motto, "Politicians make the worst candidates."

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 1:29:14 PM

mastervalentine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

What do you think of my "We the People" idea?

k

You're entitled to vote as you please. It's a shame that in this day and age only those with money can run.

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"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 1:43:44 PM

charmdpetKeira

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mastervalentine

You're entitled to vote as you please. It's a shame that in this day and age only those with money can run.

Yes, deffinately.

I was asking about thoughts on effectiveness.

k

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 1:45:30 PM

farglebargle

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Well, since no-one can actually *ever* prove that the votes supposedly cast are ever counted much less represent the will-of-The People, I'd say it's as phony as Pro-Wrasslin.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 1:55:12 PM

erebus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

To bad a president of the people, for the people, by the people, parished long ago.

Unfortunately it meant something then, now it doesn't.

Now it seems like a game we play every 4 years.

Give me a break! Voting obviously does matter. At the presidential end, it is quite manipulated, to be sure. However, the lower you go on the power list, the more impact you can have.

Education is the big one. It is totally broken, seized by left-wing wackos. We now have people who can give you the life history of Cesear Chavez, but don't know who James Madison was.

They understood that education is the key, and government control of education is the vital first step in molding the minds of a nation.

We exist to consume. Business exists to sell. We are programmed by everything to consume without questioning what we are doing. We eat factory foods. We are crowded into our cities so we can be sold to more easily, and we can buy useless things more readily. We have been set up to take in 3 or 4 million more legal and illegal aliens each year, who will work more cheaply so business can make more money. And, of course, there are millions more pocketbooks to latch onto.

We are all going down in this country. We need to turn away from rescuing other countries such as Iraq and rescue ourselves.

Don't we deserve this???

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 1:59:57 PM

erebus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess

With that said I believe that the people should rise up for Government reform in EVERY area. Our Government is simply out of control, definitely NOT for, of or by the people. Our nation has gone to hell….we are too soft to put the murderer to death and call murdering unwanted infants choice. We can not follow ten simple commandments, we remove judges who choose to. While America the beautiful once was the greatest nation on earth…shift happens.

Here, here! I'd suggest YOU run for office, but I'm sure your activity here would be found out, and no one would accept an alternative sexuality, even in San Francisco, believe it or not.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 2:01:25 PM

farglebargle

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The "Right wing wackos" run the so-called "Charter Schools" and are just as bad as the "Lefties" you think control the educational system.

Here's a hint. The teachers unions hire from and contribute to any political belief.

Make it unlawful for Artificial Legal Entities to interfere in elections, and the problem goes away.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 2:11:15 PM

cjan

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When we vote for the lesser of two evils, at the end of the day, evil has still won. In the current two party system, that is the choice we are given year after year. It may not have started that way by intention, I dunno, but it sure is what has evolved over the years

I don't think things will change much, if at all, untill we have fundamental election and election financing reform. And that is not gonna happen under the current 2 party system . It's not in their interest to change it. In fact, they will fight it tooth and nail, as will the special interests who are powerful in influence, currently finance the canidates and campaigns and , therefore, call the tune.

The only politician who offered true campaign finance reform that I am aware of was former New Jersey Senator Bill Bradley. He was largely ignored in his bid for the presidency because his ideas are too much of a challenge for many voters to bother to try to understand.

We live in a culture where millions of citizens know details of who the contestants are on American Idol and Survivor than who their local and state , and, yes even, national representatives are. We live in an age when millions of voters vote against their own best economic and personal liberty interests. Ultimately, in a democracy, people get the government they deserve.

So, vote or don't vote . Vote for the lesser of two evils, if you wish,it doesn't really matter in the current system. Our true masters in the U.S. , and soon, globally, couldn't care less. Unless there is a true grass roots rising up to re-establish a government that is truly "by the people and for the people", unfortunately.... we are irrelevant, our resistance is futile, and, we will be assimilated.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 3:25:50 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

"We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats. We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee."

[Helen Keller]

"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power over other people is to assure the people that they are ruling themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully submissive slaves."

[Joseph Sobran]

If you're going to vote at all, write in Ron Paul. He's a rare exception to the rule. Any other candidate will just give us more of the same... possibly to a somewhat greater or lesser degree.

Funny how all the Paul supporters gloss over the fact that the guy's as racist as they come.

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RE: When we’re done pointing fingers - 4/13/2008 4:53:24 PM

charmdpetKeira

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I believe, as long as the people are divided, you are correct.

So what do we do to get 'em together?

k

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