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12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 8:11:14 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Tomgram: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174921/12_reasons_to_get_out_of_iraq

2. No, there was never an exit strategy from Iraq because the Bush administration never intended to leave -- and still doesn't: Critics of the war have regularly gone after the Bush administration for its lack of planning, including its lack of an "exit strategy." In this, they miss the point. The Bush administration arrived in Iraq with four mega-bases on the drawing boards. These were meant to undergird a future American garrisoning of that country and were to house at least 30,000 American troops, as well as U.S. air power, for the indefinite future. The term used for such places wasn't "permanent base," but the more charming and euphemistic "enduring camp." (In fact, as we learned recently, the Bush administration refuses to define any American base on foreign soil anywhere on the planet, including ones in Japan for over 60 years, as permanent.) Those four monster bases in Iraq (and many others) were soon being built at the cost of multibillions and are, even today, being significantly upgraded. In October 2007, for instance, National Public Radio's defense correspondent Guy Raz visited Balad Air Base, north of Baghdad, which houses about 40,000 American troops, contractors, and Defense Department civilian employees, and described it as "one giant construction project, with new roads, sidewalks, and structures going up across this 16-square-mile fortress in the center of Iraq, all with an eye toward the next few decades."

-----

"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist." - George Orwell, 1984

I'd like to take a moment to introduce the class structure you may have noticed already exists in the U.S.:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/1984_Social_Classes_alt.svg

Politically speaking, things are not good. And the first category of damage is being by the concept of perpetual war. War is not good business, it is terminal business.

This is how empires end.

With a whimper...

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 8:40:48 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		I read most of the "12 reasons".  Couldnt' read it all.  Got tired of reading pure propaganda.

You know, the problem with your source is that it's so obviously partisan, and being written for willing believers, so that it really contributes nothing meaningful to the debate other than acrimony and hatred.

There are some interesting bits of information in his article, but they are so overwhelmingly overshadowed by the biases that overall it's a pretty useless bit of crockery. 

Other than to rally the "willing masses".

Firm


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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 8:49:43 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Other than to rally the "willing masses".

Firm



Many of the 'willing masses' knew the Iraqi war was for idiots before they needed rallying.

Its the 'rallying' for slow learners that is going on here.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:29:05 AM   
Masternslave07


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Other than to rally the "willing masses".

Firm



Many of the 'willing masses' knew the Iraqi war was for idiots before they needed rallying.

Its the 'rallying' for slow learners that is going on here.




Slow learners and willing masses huh? How's that Muslim takeover of your country and continent going?

< Message edited by Masternslave07 -- 4/24/2008 10:30:30 AM >

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:32:46 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		What on Earth are you talking about?

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:38:34 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Oh we'll be getting out alright.
When we go bankrupt!
Then there's the built-in excuse they have of "the Iraqis aren't ready yet".
When we leave, the Iraqi's will be ready.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:40:41 AM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

What on Earth are you talking about?


She's probably referring to the growing Muslim population in Europe.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:42:21 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Such ignorance is terrifying. Oh well, it's not for nothing that some people spend most of their lives on their knees.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:45:40 AM   
subfever


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quote:

12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq


Wha??? And let them control our oil? You left-wing commie pinko fringe unpatriotic extremist.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:46:45 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

You left-wing commie pinko fringe unpatriotic extremist.



Yep. Sugar is definitely marriage material - shame he doesn't believe in it  .

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:51:13 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq


Wha??? And let them control our oil? You left-wing commie pinko fringe unpatriotic extremist.



pardon my blonde in a very pissy mood and getting ready to take off on my fucking broom ignorance, but i've never understood the term pinko...i'm very pink in certain places...just sayin.

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He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:52:09 AM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

You left-wing commie pinko fringe unpatriotic extremist.



Yep. Sugar is definitely marriage material - shame he doesn't believe in it  .


There you go Sugar, that's a door opener if I ever saw one...

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:53:39 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq


Wha??? And let them control our oil? You left-wing commie pinko fringe unpatriotic extremist.



pardon my blonde in a very pissy mood and getting ready to take off on my fucking broom ignorance, but i've never understood the term pinko...i'm very pink in certain places...just sayin.


http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861726337/pinko.html

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 10:54:19 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		On the political scale, isn't a 'pinko' some kind of lightweight communist or something?

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 11:04:23 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		rofl,  thanks for clearing that up subfever, while i admit to being pink, i think i'm more in the realm of a red and yellow and pink and greeno   (purple and orange and blue are good too, i can sing a rainbow, sing a rainbow, sing a rainbow too!)  ahem...ok i need a good, diddle while bound to get me out of this mood....

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 11:12:31 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

rofl,  thanks for clearing that up subfever, while i admit to being pink, i think i'm more in the realm of a red and yellow and pink and greeno   (purple and orange and blue are good too, i can sing a rainbow, sing a rainbow, sing a rainbow too!)  ahem...ok i need a good, diddle while bound to get me out of this mood....


Wow... another lady opening the door. Interesting thread...

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 11:14:02 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

On the political scale, isn't a 'pinko' some kind of lightweight communist or something?


Yup... that's about the size of it. Actually, the term is somewhat passe these days. It was big during the 'Nam era.

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 11:15:56 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		There are plenty of reasons to leave Iraq.....It's not going to happen anytime soon.  I don't care who gets elected this go around.  None of them are going to pull our troops out of there.  Congress will never grow some balls and cut the funding.  It's not going to happen.  I have come to a point where I don't even care anymore.  I have absolutely no faith in government.  I just want them to leave me alone.  I hardly even pay attention when a new scandal pops up.  I used to wonder why so many people in this country were apathetic about politics.  Now I know, and I completely empathise with people that don't vote.  I have so many better things to do with my time than to listen to these lying assholes.  Don't get me wrong, I will vote.  But with the 3 candidates they have up for President now, I almost feel like flipping a coin when I step into the booth in November.  There isn't a damn lick of significant difference between them. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 4/24/2008 11:17:39 AM >

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 11:34:27 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		   i have, from time to time, been accused of being Pollyanna-ish, and of burying my head in the sand.  No matter how optimistic or positive is my mental attitude i find it difficult to beleive that without some form of strategy other than "Let's get out" that POOOF things are going to go back to peaches and cream.  i have taken some guilty solace in knowing that while (to use the journalist's point of view) Al-qaeda in whatever form was distracted in the middle east there has not been a WHOOSH, there goes another office building.
     i find it difficult to believe that in a victory or draw situation, There would not be as much inspiration to continue as there would be to go home and take a nap. Just my humble opinion.
  

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RE: 12 Reasons to Get Out of Iraq - 4/24/2008 1:41:06 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You need 12 reason to get out? Agreed with some of it, some of it is just partisan politics. The left and right fight a tug of war, while their wat tears the country apart at the seems. I think that is great, we have been long due for a revolution, and the politicians on both sides need to be where first blood is drawn. I love how people who call others sheep, fall into the game themselves.

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